The Hollins deep ball miss

[Roundybout]

Just now, Process said:

He slows down because he is running wide open with the entire middle of the field to work with and Josh throws it behind him. 

But the ball landed ahead of him?

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

Josh probably thought he was throwing to a competent NFL WR with at least bare minimum NFL speed. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

I wish there was a way to go back and look at every Allen attempt of 35 yards plus since he started his career because what I am about to say is just my perception.     Josh Allen has one of the worst deep balls in the league.  Does it look pretty when its in the air?  Yes.   Does it ever ever hit his wideout in stride to allow the wideout to run underneath of it and stroll into the endzone?  No.    

 

The play is on youtube if you want to watch it.   Despite what the tweet above says, the ball is thrown outside, and that's probably the real issue.   Instead of just throwing the ball into the path Hollins is running, he throws it slightly to the right of Hollins.   Maybe a better wideout makes a play on the ball, but lets be real an NFL QB should have dropped the ball right into Hollins' hands.   It was a bad throw. 

 

It's tough to say - you don't know where hollins is supposed to be, or how it was practiced.  

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s the Bills’ fault for even tricking themselves into Hollins being a “starting” receiver in the first place. Great dude and STer, but there’s a reason he has never played a lot as a receiver.

 

also, the lack of a deep ball for the last few years with a guy like Allen’s arm is pretty tough to see. Russell Wilson doesn’t have close to the same arm strength but was a great deep ball passer. There is no world where Josh Allen should be a dink and dunk qb.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

Properly to the outside shoulder?! 

 

There is no safety, he drops down.  Ref is only one in the middle of field.

 

This is just wrong. It's a sluggo, the safety always determines which shoulder you're throwing to. Hollins is supposed to bend his route towards the sideline. But honestly it shouldn't even matter here. The ball is thrown with arc and he has plenty of time to track it. Instead he panics and starts looking for the ball way too early and throws the timing off. If he just runs his normal route it is a catch in stride for a walk in TD.

 

I don't understand the controversy here. Hollins is a garbage WR and has been his entire career except for one outlier year where elevated to JAG status.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

It's tough to say - you don't know where hollins is supposed to be, or how it was practiced.  

 

Seriously?   Its a double move to a nine route.   No football team on Earth practices a go to suddenly slant to the sideline.   

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Just now, Process said:

Terrible throw and you can't convince me otherwise. Josh is a top 2 QB that legitimately may be bottom 2 at throwing the deep ball. 

 

Does anyone have a clip of the one to Kincaid? I haven't been able to find it. 

Sorry, but Allen is not playing like a top 2 QB this year. He has been entirely too inconsistent. Like Harbaugh said…keep him in the pocket and he’s toast. I love what Brady has done w/ the run game, it just seems like we can only have one or the other. A good pass game w/ crap RBs or vice-versa. The balance they showed against Arizona was a thing of beauty. Now I’m starting to think it was a week 1 fluke. 

[dorquemada]

The bigger issue is that our OL has completely collapsed.  I'd like to think that at least some of Allen's poor play can be blamed on the fact that he's getting zerg rushed every single play.  That's not going to stop either.  Between the JV OL, and the laughable group at WR I don't see anything improving any time soon

[colin]

the ball wasn't so great, but the wr was leaning back and pulling up trying to find it too much.

 

josh isn't good at the deep ball, but these wrs are trash

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Sorry, but Allen is not playing like a top 2 QB this year. He has been entirely too inconsistent. Like Harbaugh said…keep him in the pocket and he’s toast. I love what Brady has done w/ the run game, it just seems like we can only have one or the other. A good pass game w/ crap RBs or vice-versa. The balance they showed against Arizona was a thing of beauty. Now I’m starting to think it was a week 1 fluke. 

 

Josh was top two, or even top, through weeks one to three. I appreciate Baltimore and Houston are tougher opponents but the regression of the last two weeks is concerning. He's even struggling with some of the basics.

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Sorry, but Allen is not playing like a top 2 QB this year. He has been entirely too inconsistent. Like Harbaugh said…keep him in the pocket and he’s toast. I love what Brady has done w/ the run game, it just seems like we can only have one or the other. A good pass game w/ crap RBs or vice-versa. The balance they showed against Arizona was a thing of beauty. Now I’m starting to think it was a week 1 fluke. 

Disagree. You don’t get AFC OPOTM for nothing. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Allen has missed these throws for a few years now. Wide open down field is not his strength.

[MJS]

Allen has to hit him in stride there. You see other QBs make that throw without forcing their receiver to make a huge adjustment. This is something that Allen needs to improve on. I can't really remember the last time Allen has actually completed a throw like that.

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Allen has to hit him in stride there. You see other QBs make that throw without forcing their receiver to make a huge adjustment. This is something that Allen needs to improve on. I can't really remember the last time Allen has actually completed a throw like that.

Hollins didn't need to make a huge adjustment on that throw at all though. He just needed to continue running and not try and track the ball for 30 yards. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

10 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Look at the 19 second mark. Hollins tracks it horribly and slows down then panics and tries to speed up. It’s a fine deep ball. 

The route is going towards the middle of the field. Josh throws it towards the sidelines. Not that easy to stop your momentum and change direction. 
 

The safety wasn’t moving so no reason to worry about them. That ball should have been thrown where the route was going, inside. Josh decided to make it difficult and throw outside 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Sorry it was a terrible throw. The WR is running straight up the field.  The safety was nowhere in sight.

A better WR can make that catch but Josh has to deliver a better ball with more air under it. 

 

Why is Hollins even running that route. Why is that not Coleman or MVS???? 

 

[Mango]

21 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

It really doesn’t matter where the safety is. Hollins was 5 yards passed the nearest defender. 
 

Every year we seem to have half a dozen or more discussions about ball placement and whether this play or that play should inside our outside. 
 

Not sure if my feels equals reals but it feels like we talk about that more often than other teams.

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Process said:

He slows down because he is running wide open with the entire middle of the field to work with and Josh throws it behind him. 

 

You can't underthrow and overthrow the ball on the same pass.

 

Was it a perfect throw, no, but rarely does any throw have zero work for the receiver to do. Additionally the farther the throw, the more the receiver is likely to need to do something.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

Disagree. You don’t get AFC OPOTM for nothing. 

I meant the overall balance of the offense. Of course I’ll take a 300+ 4 TD game from Allen with a weak run game, but in the NFL, your team tends to win more than lose when your RB goes over 100 yards rushing. It’s been the recipe for success for the past 60 years. 

[MasterStrategist]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is just wrong. It's a sluggo, the safety always determines which shoulder you're throwing to. Hollins is supposed to bend his route towards the sideline. But honestly it shouldn't even matter here. The ball is thrown with arc and he has plenty of time to track it. Instead he panics and starts looking for the ball way too early and throws the timing off. If he just runs his normal route it is a catch in stride for a walk in TD.

 

I don't understand the controversy here. Hollins is a garbage WR and has been his entire career except for one outlier year where elevated to JAG status.

Sorry Happy, your point isn't correct here.  Once Hollins gained separation, there is no need to throw outside shoulder.  It creates a more difficult catch radius/tracking becomes more difficult.

 

I've coached at many levels, and the QB is taught to put that ball inside, without a safety playing over the top. 

 

Agree Hollins isn't talented enough to adjust.  But that's a TD if Josh puts it where it's meant to be thrown.

 

Facts, I'd be interested to see what Josh or Hollins have to say.

 

Please let me know your coaching background/evidence to support your point.  You're a good poster/have inside knowledge from your connections.  But Xs and Os are my strong suit.  And you're incorrect.

Edited October 7 by MasterStrategist