Are we figured out already? The issues as I see them

[Virgil]

Remember the Chan Gailey offense led by Fitz when we were scoring 30+ points a game and we felt unstoppable, only to have the league figure us out and we stopped being able to score at all?

 

The Bills currently feel like this to me right now.  What concerns me the most about these past two losses, more so than the miscues, is that the Ravens and Texans were all over our offense like they knew what was coming.  What was considered creativity in the first three weeks now feels like obvious transparency.  I'm sure the All-22 will show other looks, but most of the replays showed receivers blanket covered, standing still and covered, or Josh getting the same type of misdirection pressure that causes him to press.

 

Josh isn't perfect in these games and I don't like how easily he is getting rattled.  Sure, getting pressured on more than 40% of your snaps against the Ravens will do that to you, but now we are starting to see him get jumpy, escape the pocket a little too early, and deliver off-balanced throws into the turf.  

 

As for the defense,  I don't see us as figured out as much as exposed.  We knew there were going to be mental mistakes with our limited depth and rookies learning the system. We saw it today with Bishop on the long TD.  We saw Cam revert to being out of place and forgetting how to tackle.  And we saw the all-too often defensive line (Groot) disappear again.

 

End of the day, the fact that we need to make such changes on offense after only week 5, that our receivers are back to not being able to gain separation, Josh is playing frantic, and our coaches can't seem to manage the clock, we are in trouble this year.  

[BillsFan130]

Two main issues I see personally.

 

1. Lack of receivers getting open. (Especially with Shakir being out)

 

2. Predictable play calling- I counted 9 plays in a row where I guessed correctly when the bills were going to pass vs run. Like how many times are we going to run on 1st down?

 

Joe Brady can definitely do a better job with scheme/play calling, but Teams are going to continue to dare the bills receivers to win on the outside and if they can't? I would say for the most part they are figured out in my opinion 

Edited October 7 by BillsFan130

[FireChans]

We ARE figured out already.

 

The thing with those Chan Gailey offenses was that they had two limitations:

 

#1 A physically limited QB. I love Fitz as much as the next guy, but he didn't have the arm to hit the deep outs. That's a third of the field teams didn't care if he threw to because they were picks galore. This allowed them to squat on the short stuff

 

#2 An overall untalented NFL roster. We were trotting out WR's like Donald Jones and David Nelson. Stevie was our only outside threat and our only other true weapons were on running backs. This meant that all teams had to do was make us one-dimensional, and the flaws would compound on themselves as David Nelson was never going to beat teams.

 

Now today, we don't have a problem with #1. Josh not only can make all the throws, he can make throws most guys can't. But if you read point #2, it's like a mad-libs where you can exchange our current names and the past names.

 

Lots of folks, myself included have said the true test of an OC is having a counter-punch when teams figure you out. Dorsey didn't, which is why his offense fell off a cliff after the first couple weeks. Daboll kinda did, but even he would get figured out a bit.

 

At this juncture, it looks like Brady has been figured out. It is on him to adjust. But the problem is that both Daboll and Dorsey had the elite Josh-Diggs combo to fall back on when things weren't working. Brady has no such easy button. Chan didn't either and had the worse QB.

 

I have some hope that Brady will be able to figure something out, but he clearly didn't from last week to this week outside of the "pass to Mack Hollins more" plan which predictably was a disaster.

 

There's honestly just not much you can expect an OC to do with this roster.

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

 

 

Beane's annual neglect of the WR room has come home to roost.  Who'd have thunk it?

[Sweats]

 

 

Here's a little excerpt why Brady was released from Carolina......once teams figured him out, he didn't adjust and rode the one trick pony all the way to the unemployment line.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We ARE figured out already.

 

The thing with those Chan Gailey offenses was that they had two limitations:

 

#1 A physically limited QB. I love Fitz as much as the next guy, but he didn't have the arm to hit the deep outs. That's a third of the field teams didn't care if he threw to because they were picks galore. This allowed them to squat on the short stuff

 

#2 An overall untalented NFL roster. We were trotting out WR's like Donald Jones and David Nelson. Stevie was our only outside threat and our only other true weapons were on running backs. This meant that all teams had to do was make us one-dimensional, and the flaws would compound on themselves as David Nelson was never going to beat teams.

 

Now today, we don't have a problem with #1. Josh not only can make all the throws, he can make throws most guys can't. But if you read point #2, it's like a mad-libs where you can exchange our current names and the past names.

 

Lots of folks, myself included have said the true test of an OC is having a counter-punch when teams figure you out. Dorsey didn't, which is why his offense fell off a cliff after the first couple weeks. Daboll kinda did, but even he would get figured out a bit.

 

At this juncture, it looks like Brady has been figured out. It is on him to adjust. But the problem is that both Daboll and Dorsey had the elite Josh-Diggs combo to fall back on when things weren't working. Brady has no such easy button. Chan didn't either and had the worse QB.

 

I have some hope that Brady will be able to figure something out, but he clearly didn't from last week to this week outside of the "pass to Mack Hollins more" plan which predictably was a disaster.

 

There's honestly just not much you can expect an OC to do with this roster.

 

We never got the chance to see if Dorsey had a counter punch lol

 

Said from day1 my biggest issue w canning Dorsey for Brady was he was going to get Allen killed

[Mikie2times]

The biggest advancement Brady gave to this offense was in the screen game and run game. If Josh isn't going to run a lot, we need plays that will manufacture 3-6 yards and keep us on schedule. Teams are starting to target the screen game. Didn't work a lick vs Baltimore or Houston. It resulted in a ton of wasted plays and play behind the sticks. We got down in both games, and really, we aren't a power rushing team. The run is opened up more by our ability to throw and we can't threaten anybody in the air right now. The WR's just don't have that ability. No downfield threats either. Look at how Houston nearly imploded without Nico Collins. I like Keon, but we needed a downfield threat in the draft like Thomas or Worthy. Keon will be a good player but he's the type of WR that the old Carolina Panthers would have brought in the fold. The Funchess or Benjamin style WR and you need those guys, but they all can't be those guys. They need a Ted Ginn Jr or Steve Smith to make it work. Then last but not least or offensive line has regressed dramatically in pass protection. Allen was jittery today and playing faster than he needed to on several occasions. Hard to blame him when he's pressured like he has been the last two weeks. 

 

 

[Governor]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We ARE figured out already.

 

The thing with those Chan Gailey offenses was that they had two limitations:

 

#1 A physically limited QB. I love Fitz as much as the next guy, but he didn't have the arm to hit the deep outs. That's a third of the field teams didn't care if he threw to because they were picks galore. This allowed them to squat on the short stuff

 

#2 An overall untalented NFL roster. We were trotting out WR's like Donald Jones and David Nelson. Stevie was our only outside threat and our only other true weapons were on running backs. This meant that all teams had to do was make us one-dimensional, and the flaws would compound on themselves as David Nelson was never going to beat teams.

 

Now today, we don't have a problem with #1. Josh not only can make all the throws, he can make throws most guys can't. But if you read point #2, it's like a mad-libs where you can exchange our current names and the past names.

 

Lots of folks, myself included have said the true test of an OC is having a counter-punch when teams figure you out. Dorsey didn't, which is why his offense fell off a cliff after the first couple weeks. Daboll kinda did, but even he would get figured out a bit.

 

At this juncture, it looks like Brady has been figured out. It is on him to adjust. But the problem is that both Daboll and Dorsey had the elite Josh-Diggs combo to fall back on when things weren't working. Brady has no such easy button. Chan didn't either and had the worse QB.

 

I have some hope that Brady will be able to figure something out, but he clearly didn't from last week to this week outside of the "pass to Mack Hollins more" plan which predictably was a disaster.

 

There's honestly just not much you can expect an OC to do with this roster.

 

We also lost a RB (Jackson) who was on pace to break the rushing record in a single season.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We never got the chance to see if Dorsey had a counter punch lol

 

Said from day1 my biggest issue w canning Dorsey for Brady was he was going to get Allen killed

McBeane simply will not or cannot adapt themselves to a modern NFL offense.  Period end of story.  They have this insane fantasy about blocking WRs like Sherfield and Hollins suddenly exceeding their historical performance, like some kind of alchemy is going to occur.  I am over the McBeane era.  They are wasting Josh in his prime which honestly should be a war crime.

Edited October 7 by Coach Tuesday

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

We never got the chance to see if Dorsey had a counter punch lol

We did in 2022.

 

Brady isn't getting Allen killed imo. The lack of talent is killing Allen, physically and mentally.

 

Physically, because he already had to be Superman week 1 and broke his hand. Also got hurt vs the Ravens and today.

 

Mentally, because he is going through 3-4 reads and there's nothing there. He is not trusting his guys because he shouldn't and bad habits are coming out. Combine that with an OL that is 50-50 on free rushers every passing play, and you have a dude who is gonna get worn down.

 

I told @HappyDays in the offseason. Beane and McD are gonna turn our boy into Cam Newton.

1 minute ago, Governor said:

We also lost a RB (Jackson) who was on pace to break the rushing record in a single season.

That may be true.

 

Regardless, there's a reason RB's aren't paid anymore. Because they don't make enough of a difference.

 

James Cook is honestly borderline elite and it doesn't matter, the offense is still garbage with an elite QB because they don't have difference-makers anywhere.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

We did in 2022.

 

Brady isn't getting Allen killed imo. The lack of talent is killing Allen, physically and mentally.

 

Physically, because he already had to be Superman week 1 and broke his hand. Also got hurt vs the Ravens and today.

 

Mentally, because he is going through 3-4 reads and there's nothing there. He is not trusting his guys because he shouldn't and bad habits are coming out. Combine that with an OL that is 50-50 on free rushers every passing play, and you have a dude who is gonna get worn down.

 

I told @HappyDays in the offseason. Beane and McD are gonna turn our boy into Cam Newton.

I don't disagree w any of this

 

The point is- this is the style of offense they WANTED. People didn't like the Dorsey down field/deep to shallow offense because they thought it was too variable...turns out the margin for error w small ball is even thinner.

 

Who could have known😂

[Big Blitz]

If Brady has to be fired bc this goes south then it’s time to move on from McD and get a line out the door of coaching candidates that want to coach Josh in his prime not when he’s 35.  

Best case scenario we figure this out and Brady becomes a HC next season.  

 

The worst case scenario is this situation becomes too big for the GM and HC to wrap their heads around the significance of this and we continue to spin our wheels going nowhere.  
 

 

I just think it needs actual weapons.  We clearly cannot have Hollins out there as much as he is.   

 

 

Edited October 7 by Big Blitz

[Julio Hopkins]

Brady putting worse players on the field consistently is certainly an issue.  Shakir being out pretty much tanked the receiving core.  Knox is getting too many snaps over Kincaid, Hollins is getting too many snaps, Scantling is getting too many snaps, and Quintin Morris is getting too many snaps.  

 

I'm not necessarily out on Brady but I don't think he was the best hire.  The reality is that the offensive coordinator for Josh Allen is one of the most desirable positions in the NFL.  It's basically a guaranteed shot at being a head coach if you are mildly decent at the job.  It makes complete sense that Micky D was a fan though.  Constantly rotating in inferior role piece players onto the field.  A running ball control offense to keep his defense off the field.  Shocking that Diggs was on the outs after hiring a coach who puts a premium on receivers blocking, something Diggs despised lol.  

 

Also, the offensive line is still dog****.  

Edited October 7 by Julio Hopkins

[SoonerBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Remember the Chan Gailey offense led by Fitz when we were scoring 30+ points a game and we felt unstoppable, only to have the league figure us out and we stopped being able to score at all?

 

The Bills currently feel like this to me right now.  What concerns me the most about these past two losses, more so than the miscues, is that the Ravens and Texans were all over our offense like they knew what was coming.  What was considered creativity in the first three weeks now feels like obvious transparency.  I'm sure the All-22 will show other looks, but most of the replays showed receivers blanket covered, standing still and covered, or Josh getting the same type of misdirection pressure that causes him to press.

 

Josh isn't perfect in these games and I don't like how easily he is getting rattled.  Sure, getting pressured on more than 40% of your snaps against the Ravens will do that to you, but now we are starting to see him get jumpy, escape the pocket a little too early, and deliver off-balanced throws into the turf.  

 

As for the defense,  I don't see us as figured out as much as exposed.  We knew there were going to be mental mistakes with our limited depth and rookies learning the system. We saw it today with Bishop on the long TD.  We saw Cam revert to being out of place and forgetting how to tackle.  And we saw the all-too often defensive line (Groot) disappear again.

 

End of the day, the fact that we need to make such changes on offense after only week 5, that our receivers are back to not being able to gain separation, Josh is playing frantic, and our coaches can't seem to manage the clock, we are in trouble this year.  

Its really Ugly my friend.  Blitz hard and take away the middle and we are cooked.  If we were going to do this I would have went pure 12 formation and brought in a power back. I like cook, but I mean a guy 230+ who can pound the ball and hard between the tackles. You do that its hard to blitz as much as teams do.

[harmonkillebrew]

As many of us predicted, the lack of outside WRs that can win one-on-ones shrinks the field to in-between the hashes. Teams are flooding with short zone coverages as there is no real vertical or outside threat. It only took 3 weeks of tape for teams to figure out how to stop our O.  Brady needs to adapt, and we need that outside WR that everyone was craving 

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I don't disagree w any of this

 

The point is- this is the style of offense they WANTED. People didn't like the Dorsey down field/deep to shallow offense because they thought it was too variable...turns out the margin for error w small ball is even thinner.

 

Who could have known😂

That's why I have come around to "Fire Everyone" lol.

 

If Brandon Beane or McD or Brady or all 3 of them said "we will sign up for 60% of snaps going to Mack Hollins," they all need to be shown the door.

 

I didn't like Dorsey's offense. But imo, Dorsey's offense would have looked worse with this talent group.

 

It's truly a vicious cycle of suck. Everyone's to blame and they gotta go.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Julio Hopkins said:

Brady putting worse players on the field consistently is certainly an issue.  Shakir being out pretty much tanked the receiving core.  Knox is getting too many snaps over Kincaid, Hollins is getting too many snaps, Scantling is getting too many snaps, and Quintin Morris is getting too many snaps.  

 

I'm not necessarily out on Brady but I don't think he was the best hire.  The reality is that the offensive coordinator for Josh Allen is one of the most desirable positions in the NFL.  It's basically a guaranteed shot at being a head coach if you are mildly decent at the job.  It makes complete sense that Micky D was a fan though.  Constantly rotating in inferior role piece players onto the field.  A running ball control offense to keep his defense off the field.  Shocking that Diggs was on the outs after hiring a coach who puts a premium on receivers blocking, something Diggs despised lol.  

Brady has not been successful as a coordinator at the NFL level and his success at the college level came with Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, and Clyde Edwards-Helaire. This was enough for Sean to move forward with him. As many pointed out on this forum it looked like a control style hire. Brady would not oppose his style like a Daboll might. He was a controllable coach. It's not like Buffalo is this offensive factory of genius. All these guys came from the school of Josh Allen.  The fact that we won't go outside the organization is why we are here and that is all on Sean. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That's why I have come around to "Fire Everyone" lol.

 

If Brandon Beane or McD or Brady or all 3 of them said "we will sign up for 60% of snaps going to Mack Hollins," they all need to be shown the door.

 

I didn't like Dorsey's offense. But imo, Dorsey's offense would have looked worse with this talent group.

 

It's truly a vicious cycle of suck. Everyone's to blame and they gotta go.

Imo we've never looked quite this inept offensively 

 

And the worst part is it's by design

[Bruffalo]

It's the lack of WR talent and to me it's pretty obvious that's the major problem.

They can throw pressure at Allen all day long because they know our guys can't get open 1v1, and when they do they will just drop it (Hollins is a freakin' joke and it's criminal he's on a starting offense).

 

Part of it was Beane/Brady banking on Curtis Samuel doing anything, and I'd argue it's surprising how bad he is, so surprising that it almost doesn't make sense.

 

I think the fix is really obvious. Go get Adams, Cooper, Metcalf, somebody who can win 1v1s without trouble. Hell, get two of them. Make teams play Allen rushing 4 again.

 

And just a note about Coleman, I think he's been fine, but there's way way too much pressure on him to produce. 

[SoCal Deek]

Figured out? No, I knew this team would be above average at best. Nothing to see or learn here.