Josh Allen Mvp and Liability.

[UKBillFan]

9 hours ago, Lfod said:

 

Its a gut feeling I had after todays game. Im not even complaining. I love Josh Allen and think you can win a SB with him but today in my mind was on him. 

 

How can you love someone who you don't think is serious about the Bills?

[Bills!Win!]

Not one positive reaction to this post. That may be a first 

[Matt_In_NH]

Op is a dolphins fan….

[Ray Stonada]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Ideally that pass would be thrown to the outside and over the right shoulder every time to avoid the safety. And I don't think Allen is watching what shoulder the WR is looking over 50 yards down the field. 

 

 

You are wrong here. A QB absolutely should know which shoulder their receiver is looking over. Long bombs are usually over the inside shoulder. 

 

This play was pretty similar to the long TD Stroud threw to Nico Collins. Collins was looking over his inside shoulder and that’s where Stroud threw it. Easy TD. 

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Would you trust these dumpster dive wrs. With Shakir out we're down to 1 reliable guy (86)....McB have killed us this year. Wish I had some of that Von money to spend?

I love it when people come back with the “von money”…… money spent on a stud pass rusher that happened to get injured.  Ridiculous argument.  Can’t win playoff games without a pass rush

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Brand J said:

The fact he couldn’t run UNDER the ball is what caused him to slow up and have to track it over the wrong shoulder. If it was thrown with the same amount of velocity over the correct shoulder he doesn’t need to slow and can simply run under it for a TD. I know it’s popular to tar and feather Hollins right now, but that play isn’t all on him. It’s on both, with more blame on ball placement. 

This.  
 

maybe @SaulGoodmanis right.  Most Bills fans don’t know how to be objective about 17.  After skimming a few threads, everyone piling on about Brady (who deserves a lot of heat) and the WRs (who deserve less heat than Brady) while Josh is only getting a slight bashing.

 
that may have been the worst I’ve ever seen Josh throwing a ball with accuracy.   He routinely made passes difficult on the WRs with poor placement/accuracy or just outright made it impossible for them to catch, ball landing 4 yards oob.

 

Josh was awful yesterday and if he continues to throw the ball as such, our season is over.  He was clearly missing his favorite target with an ankle injury, but that’s no excuse for the poor passes

13 hours ago, Lfod said:

I'll start by saying I understand the obligatory statement that I think Josh Allen is one of the greatest QBs of all time. When Josh Allen is at his best it  looks like he looks like a football machine sent from the future

 

At his worst it looks like Zack Wilson bust levels looking lost. After some seasons it seems clear to me now that this team will rise and fall to the level that Josh Allen does. 

 

The two losses remind me of what playoff losses have looked like for us. Ravens smashed the Bills like the Bengals did. Texans did today what KC has usually does to us and sneaks by because the offense is figured out.

 

The only difference is that today is that now I believe I can see what Diggs might of been hinting at. I love Josh but maybe he isn't all that serious and just leans on accolades and not going full cyborg all the time.

Josh was terrible yesterday-  but your going a bit too far with the bolded

[balln]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This.  
 

maybe @SaulGoodmanis right.  Most Bills fans don’t know how to be objective about 17.  After skimming a few threads, everyone piling on about Brady (who deserves a lot of heat) and the WRs (who deserve less heat than Brady) while Josh is only getting a slight bashing.

 
that may have been the worst I’ve ever seen Josh throwing a ball with accuracy.   He routinely made passes difficult on the WRs with poor placement/accuracy or just outright made it impossible for them to catch, ball landing 4 yards oob.

 

Josh was awful yesterday and if he continues to throw the ball as such, our season is over.  He was clearly missing his favorite target with an ankle injury, but that’s no excuse for the poor passes

It’s not new. He usually is good for that 2-5 times every game. Yesterday it was almost every throw. Very concerning. Looks like we / he can’t handle pressure of any kind. No Rb \ te outlets. Unfortunately he needs a lot of throws manufactured by the OC or WR getting WIDE open 

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I love hyperbole as much as the next guy, but man is this laying it on thick.  He didn't develop the game plan that targeted Mack Hollins, also I'm not sure how much better he could've thrown that one deep ball to Collins - that ball has to be caught.

 

He had an off game, but dude, let's have some objectivity here.  I get it, extreme takes get clicks and reactions (congrats, I bit and I'm responding) but this is some major butthurt, low level trolling you got going on here

He does have the final say on where the ball goes based on what he sees and thinks the defense is doing. A lot of Josh’s plays are running around off script. Josh chose to throw to Hollins. I highly doubt the coaching staff said ignore open receivers short for Hollins deeper.
 

Josh has had problems taking what the defense gives him outside of a few games. Tom Brady told him he needs to take safer sometimes shorter throws vs throwing into coverage trying to make a big play. Josh pretty much scoffed at him and rolled his eyes. 
 

The underneath stuff was there for a lot of the game. Once Josh started talking it they started marching for scores. When he wasn’t the offense stalled and he looked bad. 

[BananaB]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This.  
 

maybe @SaulGoodmanis right.  Most Bills fans don’t know how to be objective about 17.  After skimming a few threads, everyone piling on about Brady (who deserves a lot of heat) and the WRs (who deserve less heat than Brady) while Josh is only getting a slight bashing.

 
that may have been the worst I’ve ever seen Josh throwing a ball with accuracy.   He routinely made passes difficult on the WRs with poor placement/accuracy or just outright made it impossible for them to catch, ball landing 4 yards oob.

 

Josh was awful yesterday and if he continues to throw the ball as such, our season is over.  He was clearly missing his favorite target with an ankle injury, but that’s no excuse for the poor passes

He has no trust in the players he’s throwing to. You can tell the guys he trusts and the guys he doesn’t, there is hesitation. 

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, Process said:

The more I watch it the worse the throw looks. Really don't understand ripping Hollins on that one. It was just a bad throw. 

 

Sure he slows down to track it, but it's not easy to run full speed while twisting back to get to a ball over your outside shoulder. 

 

Josh had a TON of room for error and still missed it. 

Agree 100 percent.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, balln said:

It’s not new. He usually is good for that 2-5 times every game. Yesterday it was almost every throw. Very concerning. Looks like we / he can’t handle pressure of any kind. No Rb \ te outlets. Unfortunately he needs a lot of throws manufactured by the OC or WR getting WIDE open 

Yeah, nearly every QB throws 2-5 bad passes per game.  The new part is 20 bad passes.

 

Seems like we didn’t have anyone running the underneath stuff Shakir usually runs.  Expected to see Samuel in that role.  Instead, we didn’t even see Samuel. 1 nice RB pass to cook and that was it for the RBs.  Allen and Kincaid aren’t in sync with each other yet and Knox is an OL.  Thinking we should just put Alec Anderson out there instead of him. 

9 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He has no trust in the players he’s throwing to. You can tell the guys he trusts and the guys he doesn’t, there is hesitation. 

I agree that there is definitely hesitation and that’s part of the problem.  He has to work through it.  Man, did he suck yesterday 

11 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Just needed to run his route

He panicked

And Josh needed to throw the ball over his inside shoulder.  He didn’t and it made it much more difficult of a catch.  If he throws that inside it’s an easy 7.

Edited October 7 by NewEra

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 minutes ago, balln said:

It’s not new. He usually is good for that 2-5 times every game. Yesterday it was almost every throw. Very concerning. Looks like we / he can’t handle pressure of any kind. No Rb \ te outlets. Unfortunately he needs a lot of throws manufactured by the OC or WR getting WIDE open 

There was a few times Josh had wide open receivers and chose to throw a lower percentage pass to someone that had a defender on them. He’s done it a lot throughout his career and it is a problem. 

Edited October 7 by Not at the table Karlos

[Bermuda Triangle]

It was not a great throw, but one that an average NFL receiver should come up with.

 

problem is, our WR room is comically bad.

[colin]

Josh is the goat imo, but he has flaws.  To some extent (not sure how much) the flaws are a result made worse by horrible roster design and pitiful offensive coaching.

 

I'll ignore the suger high desperation stuff where he blasts the ball too hot when he had a better read.  To me his big issue is he is poor at pre snap reads.  He does not see unblocked rushers well, he doesn't understand where the d is forcing him to roll when he does roll, and he does not do the Brady thing of identifying who will be uncovered out the gate and just go to him off of jump.

 

Part of that is because he can be super man and buy time, and extend plays in order to make magic happen.  But part of that is simply a weakness in his game.

 

Having a yes man rookie or low experience and no success OC (which is what dabol, Dorsey, and Brady all are) is not a great way to get him out of these habits, which is why a top flight NFL QB in his 7th year still has them.  I poop on mcds scheme all the time on d, but he does not have his guys consistently making pre snap errors or free lancing due to a lack of clarity on what they should be doing in a regular basis.

 

I love 17 but if dcs for bmore a d Houston can just look at tape and know how to turn him into a bad below average NFL QB (which is exactly what he has been the past two games) then this is a problem.

 

At first I thought the talent and size on bmore and their great run d just matched up badly with us, but they have the worst pass d in the NFL.  Houston isn't great either.

 

This is a coaching and player issue and it's shocking that a team who's won the division 4 years in a row and won the second most games and has the highest points differential let's it come to this.

[Lfod]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

This.  
 

maybe @SaulGoodmanis right.  Most Bills fans don’t know how to be objective about 17.  After skimming a few threads, everyone piling on about Brady (who deserves a lot of heat) and the WRs (who deserve less heat than Brady) while Josh is only getting a slight bashing.

 
that may have been the worst I’ve ever seen Josh throwing a ball with accuracy.   He routinely made passes difficult on the WRs with poor placement/accuracy or just outright made it impossible for them to catch, ball landing 4 yards oob.

 

Josh was awful yesterday and if he continues to throw the ball as such, our season is over.  He was clearly missing his favorite target with an ankle injury, but that’s no excuse for the poor passes

Josh was terrible yesterday-  but your going a bit too far with the bolded

 

 

Well I wanted to over emphasize and exaggerate my point for a bit of fun. I still think they lost that game because of Josh Allen though. They could of managed the end to win they had opportunities but its in the fourth and they let to many possessions pass them by and now your playing for over time. 

 

They couldn't even get into over time. Wouldn't have to worry about McDermott managing the end game stupid in the end if the team did more than play defense because the opportunities to win were there with some points. 

 

 

Edited October 7 by Lfod

[NewEra]

46 minutes ago, Lfod said:

 

 

Well I wanted to over emphasize and exaggerate my point for a bit of fun. I still think they lost that game because of Josh Allen though. They could of managed the end to win they had opportunities but its in the fourth and they let to many possessions pass them by and now your playing for over time. 

 

They couldn't even get into over time. Wouldn't have to worry about McDermott managing the end game stupid in the end if the team did more than play defense because the opportunities to win were there with some points. 

 

 

I agree that they lost the game because of Allen.  If he’s 70% of his normal self I think we win, but he waIf he had hit either Kincaid or Hollins on the long shot, I think we win.  
 

1/17 games.  Offense doesn’t look good right now, but the season is long and things can change quickly.  We need a healthy Shakir.  A shiny new toy would be nice to considering that McKenzie >>>>>>>> Samuel apparently 

[Alphadawg7]

I love Josh…but…Meet liability Josh.  Easy guaranteed 5+ yards to Kincaid or Coleman on a down critical we get yards and stay in bounds and he launches a bomb to a blanketed Mack Hollins.
 

Utterly terrible decision. 
 

 

[DapperCam]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I love Josh…but…Meet liability Josh.  Easy guaranteed 5+ yards to Kincaid or Coleman on a down critical we get yards and stay in bounds and he launches a bomb to a blanketed Mack Hollins.
 

Utterly terrible decision. 
 

 

If Allen passes it to Coleman there the DB is walking in a pick-6. Agree that Kincaid was a good option, and Allen should have taken the check down. To be fair, I’m pretty sure he was concussed.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

You are wrong here. A QB absolutely should know which shoulder their receiver is looking over. Long bombs are usually over the inside shoulder. 

 

This play was pretty similar to the long TD Stroud threw to Nico Collins. Collins was looking over his inside shoulder and that’s where Stroud threw it. Easy TD. 

 

14 hours ago, Brand J said:

No, sir. If a receiver is running down the right side of the field he’s not looking over his right shoulder for the ball. It’ll always be his left, that’s how you adjust to the pass. I don’t have the field view to see if a safety was even in the vicinity, but from the replays it doesn’t look like that was an issue.
 

You know how Nico Collins roasted the secondary and was looking back over his left shoulder for the pass? Imagine how much more difficult the catch would’ve been if it was thrown over his opposite shoulder, headed toward the sideline. It was bad ball placement by Allen and it’s okay to admit that. 

 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If Allen passes it to Coleman there the DB is walking in a pick-6. Agree that Kincaid was a good option, and Allen should have taken the check down. To be fair, I’m pretty sure he was concussed.

Disagree, he has Coleman off the snap.  With Allen’s arm if he hits Coleman off the break it’s not only an easy catch he could also make him miss or break the tackle and outright get the first down.  And this should have been the hot read with them sending Hollins to clear out that side.  And with Coleman’s hands and catch radius, Allen can put the ball where ever he wants out of harms way to the DB even if he is a little late on the read.