10/6/2024 - Bills at Texans post game thread.

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, colin said:

 

Evergreen post.

I actually think Coleman ran a very good route there, he just isn't the first or probably second read in that progression. If he is, it should be an easy pass and catch. 

Honestly I think if the choice is throwing 6 targets to Hollins or throwing up 50/50 balls to Coleman,  I'm taking Coleman 100% of the time.

[Andrew Son]

1 minute ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m also looking forward to the All-22. Josh had a horrific game but I’d like to see if his decision making has regressed.

 

Are our receivers as bad as I think they are? Were there easy plays to be made that Josh just passed up going for deeper shots?

 

And speaking of the deep ball, when’s the last time Josh hit one? My perception is that his deep ball has sucked now since last year. He’s missing wide open guys deep on the regular and when he does hit one, they drop it.

 

His deep ball has always been pretty bad.  Just doesn’t throw a catchable deep ball.

 

amazing arm strength but he just ropes them down there.  Very little room for error or ability to track without much arc.  
 

some of the best deep ball throwers- like Tua for example- don’t have plus arm strength.  They just loft it up and it’s easier to track and adjust to so you don’t have to be pin point accurate 

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 minutes ago, Danger Mouse said:

 

I don't know what QB in the world makes yesterday a success. No clear options downfield. No altertness for short passes. Constant pressure in his face. Weak ass play calling. It was his worst game, yes. But not every poor QB performance is a result of the QB. 

 

 

Lmfao you need to watch the all 22 when it comes out. There were open receivers. Josh like he has during a lot of his career ignored them for low percentage deeper shots that he struggles to throw. Once he stopped ignoring them a crazy thing happened, they marched for a TD.  It’s all on film. 

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m also looking forward to the All-22. Josh had a horrific game but I’d like to see if his decision making has regressed.

 

Are our receivers as bad as I think they are? Were there easy plays to be made that Josh just passed up going for deeper shots?

 

And speaking of the deep ball, when’s the last time Josh hit one? My perception is that his deep ball has sucked now since last year. He’s missing wide open guys deep on the regular and when he does hit one, they drop it.

 

 

My guess its more of a combination of a lack of confidence in his receivers and Allen's patience waning due to pressure. 

 

If I don't trust my receivers to get open on a consistent basis and you see a slight opening deep, regardless of a better short pass opening up, you are going to be inclined to go deep because you want to avoid having to rely on nickeling and diming with a receiving corp that rarely makes that straightforward. Add to that his endless pressure and it recreates the younger Josh style of QBing without having the same underlying reason.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m also looking forward to the All-22. Josh had a horrific game but I’d like to see if his decision making has regressed.

His decision making wasn’t great.

13 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

 

Are our receivers as bad as I think they are? Were there easy plays to be made that Josh just passed up going for deeper shots?

Josh definitely passed up easy plays for deep shots. 

13 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

 

And speaking of the deep ball, when’s the last time Josh hit one? My perception is that his deep ball has sucked now since last year. He’s missing wide open guys deep on the regular and when he does hit one, they drop it.

 

His deep ball has never been great. He throws frozen ropes with a low trajectory that are very hard for a receiver to track and run under. If it’s not a perfectly placed ball it’s most likely sailing over their head or going to the defender that was left in Kincaids dust. Diggs first year here Josh was better at putting more air on deep shots but they’d be under thrown some and receiver would have to slow down. He’s regressed back to frozen ropes. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Not at the table Karlos

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

His decision making wasn’t great.

Josh definitely passed up easy plays for deep shots. 

His deep ball has never been great. He throws frozen ropes with a low trajectory that are very hard for a receiver to track and run under. If it’s not a perfectly placed ball it’s most likely sailing over their head or going to the defender that was left in Kincaids dust. Diggs first year here Josh was better at putting more air on deep shots but they’d be under thrown some and receiver would have to slow down. He’s regressed back to frozen ropes. 

 

In general I agree but the two he threw yesterday had a lot of arc.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In general I agree but the two he threw yesterday had a lot of arc.  

Deep shot to Kincaid didn’t. Was too low giving defender a chance to almost pick it. More air that drops in Kincaid hands. If he doesn’t drop it, should be a walk in td

 

edit deep shot to Kincaid later in the game. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Not at the table Karlos

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Son said:

His deep ball has always been pretty bad.  Just doesn’t throw a catchable deep ball.

 

amazing arm strength but he just ropes them down there.  Very little room for error or ability to track without much arc.  
 

some of the best deep ball throwers- like Tua for example- don’t have plus arm strength.  They just loft it up and it’s easier to track and adjust to so you don’t have to be pin point accurate 

 

I sort of agree however Allen's first couple years he had a solid number of great long passes. In my opinion his long range throws are off due to a combination of overthinking or overpowering the ball combined with a lack of catches when he does make a pinpoint throw.

 

Essentially, Allen might overthrow or underthrow a deep route, the next time he tries he'll adjust accordingly. On try 3, let's say, he throws a perfect arc to his receiver who proceeds to drop it. (Diggs, Davis, Hollins, the list is rather long) With the drop Allen feels the need to even further adjust to make the catch even easier and thus falls back into over/under throwing the receiver and the cycle continues. 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Deep shot to Kincaid didn’t. Was too low giving defender a chance to almost pick it. More air that drops in Kincaid hands. If he doesn’t drop it, should be a walk in td

 

edit deep shot to Kincaid later in the game. 

 

That was definitely a missed opportunity.  Kincaid had him beat.

[SCBills]

Allen has to hit that Kincaid deep shot for a TD. 
 

He keeps missing those and in an Offense without much room for error, it’s a massive liability.  
 

Deep throws are low percentage for any QB, but for Allen lately they’re just a waste of a down. 
 

Hollins can track better and Coleman can not drop it (Ravens game), but Keon is a rookie and Hollins is paid scraps.  Allen is viewed as QB2 in the league and will be paid as such once we extend him again.   He needs to be better.  

[2003Contenders]

Yes, the WR corps was terrible and, yes, the OL had trouble picking up blitzes, etc. -- but Josh flat-out had a bad game. He looked very uncomfortable from the get-go. That is one of the things I miss about Daboll: he used to recognize early when Josh was uncomfortable or pressing and would draw up plays to get him into a rhythm. Sometimes those plays involved designed QB runs. Brady just does not seem to have that ability to recognize game flow and make adjustments to get the offense in sync.

[colin]

1 minute ago, 2003Contenders said:

Yes, the WR corps was terrible and, yes, the OL had trouble picking up blitzes, etc. -- but Josh flat-out had a bad game. He looked very uncomfortable from the get-go. That is one of the things I miss about Daboll: he used to recognize early when Josh was uncomfortable or pressing and would draw up plays to get him into a rhythm. Sometimes those plays involved designed QB runs. Brady just does not seem to have that ability to recognize game flow and make adjustments to get the offense in sync.

 

 

facts, altho i think there are a lot of guys better than dabo.

 

josh really does stink w the deep ball.  its so obvious how to beat the bills, take away the middle of the field, force throws outside to wrs who won't get open, and just dare the deep stuff.  how has our OC not tried to figure out ways to get out of this rut?

[thenorthremembers]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Allen has to hit that Kincaid deep shot for a TD. 
 

He keeps missing those and in an Offense without much room for error, it’s a massive liability.  
 

Deep throws are low percentage for any QB, but for Allen lately they’re just a waste of a down. 
 

Hollins can track better and Coleman can not drop it (Ravens game), but Keon is a rookie and Hollins is paid scraps.  Allen is viewed as QB2 in the league and will be paid as such once we extend him again.   He needs to be better.  

 

He put too much air on the pass to Hollins and not enough on the pass to Kincaid.  The wideout/TE had enough separation on both passes to be touchdowns.   Allen missed on both.  

[Logic]

Before the Ravens game, people were asking "how soon until Joe Brady gets a head coaching job?"

Fast forward two weeks, and people are asking "how soon can we fire Joe Brady?"

Life comes at you fast.

[Bob in STL]

OK the dust is settling and the reasons for the loss, less the emotions, are starting to become clearer. 

 

1. Another poor offensive game plan that sees the offense fail to score a TD in the first half.   We had some success with Cook running the ball early but went away from it. They failed in the red zone early in the game and late in the game.  It was clear that the WRs have trouble getting open and Allen has to be perfect delivering the football.  Allen was not sharp either but he is getting ZERO help.  

 

2.  The Defense caught a break with Collins getting hurt.  The defense adjusted at halftime and despite many injuries they played a very solid 2nd half.  They forced turnovers to set the Bills up to take a late lead, something which the offense could not do. 

 

3.  Coaching mistakes and game management.  The Texans played the last few series perfectly, punting and pinning us deep knowing that they could get a shot at a long FG.  McDermott once again made poor decisions, throwing the ball 3 times from the end zone, leading to an inevitable punt from the very back of our end zone - putting the punt coverage team in a bad spot

 

The first thing to criticize is taking the risk of a holding penalty in the end zone.   A holding penalty in the end zone would have won the game for Houston, so first down really needed to be a run or a quick pass designed to get some positive yards and some breathing room.   Image if we lost on a holding penalty in the end zone?  McD is already being second guessed nationally. 

 

On first down a run or a completed short pass would have forced one time out by Houston.   Cook to the left was working at one time.  An Allen option pass or run off of play action was never tried.    Quick screen passes, quick outs and slants, not tried.    Throwing deep, low percentage passes was the last thing to do.  But that is what we did.  So we punted from the back of the end-zone, making the punter kick with a short step and making hang time hard to achieve.  

 

People talk about burning the time outs, which would have been smart, but just gaining 5 or 6 yards in 3 runs would have helped the punter and the punt coverage. Instead, with the punter at the back of the end zone they gave up 13 yards on the punt return and 5 more yards on a poor defensive plan.  

 

McDermott and staff pretty much did it all wrong, took unneeded risks, and failed to help the punt team and the defense.   The Houston kicker made the 59 yarder with room to spare.  So much for "complimentary football" right Coach? 

 

Allen is taking some heat too.  He was not good, but he was under pressure and duress all game.   The Texans did exactly what the Ravens did, which will be what the Jets do.  They will take away the middle of the field and force the WRs to get open outside or down field, which they can't seem to do.  Samuel/Hollins/Valdes-Scantling are as bad a group of wide receivers as any in the history of this team.   Without Shakir in the lineup Allen has nothing. Kincaid is being neutralized every week and Knox is all but forgotten. 

 

Moving Forward - We are in must win territory against the Jets next week.  The Jets have a strong defense and excellent corners.  We have Allen and Cook, lots of injuries, and nothing much else.   Brady has to come up with something to move the ball and put points up.   I don't see an easy way to score so the Defense and Special Teams will have to be very good to win.  

 

This would be a great week for the coaches to do a great job.  

[The Helmet of]

“I’m disgusted by that”

 

Rex Ryan roasts McDermott

[Roundybout]

 

One of the few bright spots yesterday. 

[Bangarang]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

Before the Ravens game, people were asking "how soon until Joe Brady gets a head coaching job?"

Fast forward two weeks, and people are asking "how soon can we fire Joe Brady?"

Life comes at you fast.

 

He struck gold by having an offense with Burrow, Jefferson, Chase and Edwards-Helare and his reputation has been clinging to it ever since.

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

He struck gold by having an offense with Burrow, Jefferson, Chase and Edwards-Helare and his reputation has been clinging to it ever since.

Well...The Bills managed to score a decent amount of points and lose only one game last year when he took over as OC. Then they came out this year looking dynamic in the first three games, scoring 30+ points in each one.

So he HAS demonstrated success at the NFL. But as I mentioned in a recent thread, opposing defenses were gonna get "the book" on his offense sooner than later, and he'd need to show he has some counter-punches. So far, he has not done so.

If I was to pinpoint one major concern with Brady, it's this: he seems to have either an unwillingness or an inability to feature his best players on offense. Whether it be Diggs last year, Kincaid and Samuel and Coleman this year, or even Dawson Knox. "Everybody eats" is fine, but there come times in NFL games when you need to think players, not plays, and need to have winning plays drawn up for your best players. How were Knox and Kincaid not featured yesterday? How has Samuel had by far his WORST year as a pro?

I'm starting to fear that Brady doesn't know how to go away from his egalitarian offense and just say "you know what? Today needs to be a Kincaid day". I'm finding it very concerning that on a day when they need a guy who can separate vs man, Curtis Samuel is not a focal point of the gameplan. Concerning stuff, all of it.

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

One of the few bright spots yesterday. 

Say what you will about Hollins, but that was a helluva pancake block at the end there.