Did Beane Fail Josh and the fan base?

[US Egg]

Beane failed Allen and the fan base?

 

Where were the Bills before Beane?

[Lfod]

I read through this thread and to a degree could agree that Beane made mistakes. McDermott made mistakes. Josh makes some head scratching mistakes. Everyone tries to improve over time. 

 

If the product on the field produces playoff runs a season has potential for a SB run. When that happens I don't see it as a failure ultimately. I like my odds better if they are contenders and they have been. 

 

Ive seen this team play like a super bowl team several times throughout these past seasons. They also have odd games sprinkled in where some or all things dont click at all.

 

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Your whataboutism game is cute. 
 

Ask yourself .. was this before or after the Cincinnati game?  
 

After you answer yourself, ask yourself, is a picture of this drop really relevant?

 

After you answer yourself again, ask yourself, could I probably do better?

 

Then tell yourself, yes … yes I could. 
 

Then … try. 

Only guy not to quit, that’s debatable. 
 

First guy to walk out on the team after a heart breaking playoff loss. Last person to show up following off-season. Only player who got his brother to stir the pot and cause a huge distraction all season long last year

Who quit on who?

Edited October 5 by BananaB

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, MJS said:

And he has done next to nothing in every playoff elimination game he has been a part of. Your #1 receiver is supposed to step it up in the playoffs, not disappear.

 

[mrags]

54 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Really, was that a mod deleting a post that didn't fit?  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Only guy not to quit, that’s debatable. 
 

First guy to walk out on the team after a heart breaking playoff loss. Last person to show up following off-season. Only player who got his brother to stir the pot and cause a huge distraction all season long last year
 

Only one coach played off coverage defending against a TD when a FG tied the game with 13 seconds left in the game

 

Only one coach started Nathan Peterman

 

Only one coach allowed too many men on the field for a missed FG

[Bermuda Triangle]

18 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

We all knew that the loss of Diggs was going to potentially be bad for Josh and the Bills, unless they could replace him via the draft or a trade.

The passing game for the Bills is not "passing" the eye test, IMHO. There is no "Goto" guy and none of the current guys on the roster have taken a step forward as you would have hoped.

Statistically, Josh is up on every passing stat this year compared to the last four except yardage, where his per game is 20% lower, roughly.

Should Beane been more aggressive in FA? Did Beane fail JA? The fans??


 

I think it would be interesting if people were to objectively review Beane's moves in free agency.

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, US Egg said:

Beane failed Allen and the fan base?

 

Where were the Bills before Beane?

 

People can always find something to complain about. We could use more of this or that, a true #1 WR, better depth everywhere, etc. The problem is, every team wishes they had more cap space and more draft picks, including Beane and the Bills.  Nobody has a perfect batting record, including Beane and the Bills, but they are doing much better than most.

 

 

.

Edited October 5 by Augie

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Only one coach played off coverage defending against a TD when a FG tied the game with 13 seconds left in the game

 

Only one coach started Nathan Peterman

 

Only one coach allowed too many men on the field for a missed FG

You don’t gotta spit ***** about the coaching staff with me, I want them all fired. 
 

Diggs still quit on this team and all the players in the locker room. 

[US Egg]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

People can always find something to complain about. We could use more of this or that, a true #1 WR, better depth everywhere, etc. The problem is, every team wishes they had more cap space and more draft picks, including Beane and the Bills.  Nobody has a perfect batting record, including Beane and the Bills, but they are doing much better than most.

Never ceases to amaze me how many flippant thread spiral outward rallying into a pack hunt

[BobChalmers]

18 hours ago, Gugny said:

I’m not going to disagree with this but I will point out that Diggs was pretty much the only player on the entire team (led by JA) who didn’t quit against the Bengals in the playoffs. 

 

Fixed?: 

 

I’m not going to disagree with this but I will point out that Diggs was pretty much the only player on the entire team (led by JA) who was enough of a sociopath to not be reeling from the shock of watching their teammate dying on the field to be ready for the Bengals in the playoffs. 

Edited October 5 by BobChalmers

[Gugny]

22 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

Fixed?: 

 

I’m not going to disagree with this but I will point out that Diggs was pretty much the only player on the entire team (led by JA) who was enough of a sociopath to not be reeling from the shock of watching their teammate dying on the field to be ready for the Bengals in the playoffs. 

I will respectfully disagree with you. 
 

These guys (all NFL players, owners and coaches - not just in Buffalo) care about one thing … money. 
 

They’re all just fine with sharing the field with killers, woman beaters, child abusers, drug dealers … but somehow, I’m supposed to believe that things like health episodes and mass shootings somehow reach their hearts?

 

I do not and will not buy into that. 
 

They are convenient excuses made FOR them by fans who think they actually give a crap about anything other than money. 
 

They don’t. 
 

Edited October 5 by Gugny

[folz]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I hear ya, but keep in mind that we're supposed to be "spreading the ball out" this season, aka no need for a bona fide #1.  That's the actual plan, not some mistake, and the point is that they have enough decent bodies to make it work.  Kincaid's underutilized too, and you didn't mention Hollins and MVS, both of whom were were told are quite capable WRs.  It's not as if we're "stretching the field," in fact, we're doing the opposite.  

 

As to the blowouts, we had three even worse blowouts last season at this time and we see what happened.  As more film comes out on the offense, we could be in trouble.  

 

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Kincaid needs more touches. And we should probably be taking a couple more shots with MVS and/or Coleman down the field (to keep defenses honest---though again, due to the blowouts, it wasn't really necessary in the first 3 games). MVS is obviously a package receiver rather than a consistent contributor, which is ok with who is ahead of him. I think Hollins is fine. Kind of what I expected from his role. Mostly a blocker with a couple of targets per game (though I wish he would get his catch percentage up a bit). Knox is an interesting question. I agree he shouldn't just be used as a traditional #2 TE. But, again, there are only so many balls to go around, especially with as little as we have needed to pass thus far. It will be interesting to see if Brady can take advantage of the fact that we have two good TEs eventually. There may be certain opponents that it would be effective against.

 

And then hopefully Shakir is back soon, Samuel comes on as he gets healthy, and Coleman progresses as the year goes on (Josh and Brady trust him to do more).

 

We are still in the learning curve of the season. Brady's offense is new. How defenses react to it is new (which will take adjustments along the way). Josh has 4 new receiving targets that he's still building rapport with. With all of the changes, there is no question that we should actually get better as the year goes on.

 

The big question right now is the whole "will defenses catch up to the offense and be able to nullify it." First of all, teams need the personnel to do so. Not every team would be able to do it even if there were some type of blueprint. Secondly, with what I have seen from Brady thus far, I think he can adjust and adapt. In the first three wins, we played each team very differently. It is kind of like the old New England offense, the game plan is tailored to each opponent...rather than stubbornly sticking to doing things one way. So, I don't think there will be some type of blueprint that will work for everyone. Sure, it will be tougher going against teams with a great pass rush and/or secondary. But that's par for the course for every offense.

 

And this offense wasn't meant to stretch the field vertically. It is meant to stretch the defense horizontally (to create space for guys like Cook and Shakir to get into the open field). Take what the defense gives you. Run the ball. Move the chains. Though as I said, a few more shots down the field to keep the defense honest would help. And if defenses get out of the 2 shell or zero coverage that is so popular right now (especially against the top QBs), then you unleash Josh's down field game (big chunk plays).

 

I guess I just have confidence in Brady to get it done (despite making probably the worst single offensive play call in the history of the Bills last week).

 

 

[NoName]

32 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

People can always find something to complain about. We could use more of this or that, a true #1 WR, better depth everywhere, etc. The problem is, every team wishes they had more cap space and more draft picks, including Beane and the Bills.  Nobody has a perfect batting record, including Beane and the Bills, but they are doing much better than most.

 

 

.

Beane has done an excellent job in so many ways!  Addressing the WR position is something has had NOT done a good job at.  Handing out some questionable contracts did not give him the cap flexibility needed to address the WR position.  We entered the season depending on Shakur to be our number 1 our 2nd round rookie and Mack Hollins to be our starters.  Beane deserves the majority of blame for that. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 hours ago, folz said:

 

A lot of people seem to forget (because it's kind of been under the radar), but Curtis Samuel has been dealing with a turf toe injury since camp. It's been about 4-5 weeks since the injury. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they were bringing him along slowly due to that. Maybe we'll see him a bit more this week with Shakir out.

 

Why would anyone reasonably expect Samuel to be healthy?  Of his first 7 seasons in the NFL, he's played two full seasons.

11 minutes ago, NoName said:

Beane has done an excellent job in so many ways!  Addressing the WR position is something has had NOT done a good job at.  Handing out some questionable contracts did not give him the cap flexibility needed to address the WR position.  We entered the season depending on Shakur to be our number 1 our 2nd round rookie and Mack Hollins to be our starters.  Beane deserves the majority of blame for that. 

It's hard to win the SB without top-end players.  We have one on our roster.    That's 100% on Beane.  

[dgrochester55]

"The Bills failed Josh Allen? Do the Bills have to go to summer Josh?"

 

Edited October 5 by dgrochester55

[folz]

19 hours ago, Gugny said:

I’m not going to disagree with this but I will point out that Diggs was pretty much the only player on the entire team (led by JA) who didn’t quit against the Bengals in the playoffs. 

 

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I will respectfully disagree with you. 
 

These guys (all NFL players, owners and coaches - not just in Buffalo) care about one thing … money. 
 

They’re all just fine with sharing the field with killers, woman beaters, child abusers, drug dealers … but somehow, I’m supposed to believe that things like health episodes and mass shootings somehow reach their hearts?

 

I do not and will not buy into that. 
 

They are convenient excuses made FOR them by fans who think they actually give a crap about anything other than money. 
 

They don’t. 
 

 

Kind of a sad perspective to have dude.

 

Are there guys in the league that are all about money? Yes. Are there guys in the league that are criminals? Yes.

 

But there are also a ton of good guys in the league. Just as there are criminals and greedy people in every profession and every group of people (maybe not to the same percentage, especially due to the amount of money we are talking about, etc.---but still).

 

If you can't see the difference between how a guy like Stefon handles his business and how a guy like Josh handles his business, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And yes, these guys are still human beings. You can pretend that because they are on your TV screen and they make a lot of money that they don't have feelings, etc. like the rest of us. But it's just not true. Just look at Jim Kelly's journey for one. These guys aren't untouchables that aren't affected by life like all of the rest of us.

 

And there is a HUGE difference between a guy quitting on a team for an entire year, causing ill feelings, and forcing his way off of a team (for a second time---patterned behavior) than a bunch of guys who had just gone through the most tumultuous and emotionally-draining season an NFL team had ever experienced and not quite having the fight left in them, no reserves left to draw on. 

 

What Stefon did was quitting. What that team did wasn't quitting...they just weren't in the right emotional mindset and energy-level to execute at a high-enough level (like they were used to). And if you think that a teammate and friend dying on the field in front of them (all of them knowing they put themselves at that same risk every week) is just a convenient excuse for fans. I...I...have no more words.

 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, folz said:

 

 

Kind of a sad perspective to have dude.

 

Are there guys in the league that are all about money? Yes. Are there guys in the league that are criminals? Yes.

 

But there are also a ton of good guys in the league. Just as there are criminals and greedy people in every profession and every group of people (maybe not to the same percentage, especially due to the amount of money we are talking about, etc.---but still).

 

If you can't see the difference between how a guy like Stefon handles his business and how a guy like Josh handles his business, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And yes, these guys are still human beings. You can pretend that because they are on your TV screen and they make a lot of money that they don't have feelings, etc. like the rest of us. But it's just not true. Just look at Jim Kelly's journey for one. These guys aren't untouchables that aren't affected by life like all of the rest of us.

 

And there is a HUGE difference between a guy quitting on a team for an entire year, causing ill feelings, and forcing his way off of a team (for a second time---patterned behavior) than a bunch of guys who had just gone through the most tumultuous and emotionally-draining season an NFL team had ever experienced and not quite having the fight left in them, no reserves left to draw on. 

 

What Stefon did was quitting. What that team did wasn't quitting...they just weren't in the right emotional mindset and energy-level to execute at a high-enough level (like they were used to). And if you think that a teammate and friend dying on the field in front of them (all of them knowing they put themselves at that same risk every week) is just a convenient excuse for fans. I...I...have no more words.

 

 

 

 

I will respectfully disagree with you, too. 
 

The risk of playing football had absolutely nothing to do with Hamlin going into cardiac arrest. He could have been playing checkers at that moment and it would have happened. 
 

Buffalo managed to get to the playoffs after the Hamlin incident, the shooting and Kim Pegula’s medical episode. 
 

How am I to believe that they just happened to hit their breaking point right before the Cincinnati game started?  It’s a silly notion to me. 

[RoscoeParrish]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

He could have been playing checkers at that moment and it would have happened. 

Um wasn’t it induced by blunt force trauma?

 

what kind of checkers do YOU play?

[BillsFan2313]

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I will respectfully disagree with you, too. 
 

The risk of playing football had absolutely nothing to do with Hamlin going into cardiac arrest. He could have been playing checkers at that moment and it would have happened. 
 

Buffalo managed to get to the playoffs after the Hamlin incident, the shooting and Kim Pegula’s medical episode. 
 

How am I to believe that they just happened to hit their breaking point right before the Cincinnati game started?  It’s a silly notion to me. 

 

Huh?