Safety play: Actually pretty good?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

my thoughts honestly...we have played probably 3 of the worst teams in the league thus far

 

just saying

Sadly, there is a lot of evidence to support this thesis. 

 

Only questions are   how did we kill the Dolphins and  the Cardinals destroy the Rams?  We have been crushing Miami post Josh (provided were are not in the unshaded hot Miami weather ) and too many Rams injuries to overcome.

Edited October 3 by RoyBatty is alive

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There seems to have been a narrative that our safety play has been pretty poor this season. While Hamlin, Rapp, and Bishop have had moments of struggles this season, some of the numbers are actually surprising. 
 

I’ll start off by saying our worst defender, by far, has been Cam Lewis. I’m not sure if he counts as a safety or not, he seems to be filling in at NCB for Johnson. Possibly rotating with Ingram, or is Ingram mainly been the dime DB? All I know is the QB stat line while targeting Cam is this:

 

22 of 29 (76%)

216 yards 

1 TD

7 missed tackles (20%)

 

Love our UB guys, as a UB guy myself, but he needs the bench, and he needs it badly.

 

Now for the other guys

 

Damar Hamlin - Hasn’t been perfect, probably isn’t a full time starter, but I don’t think any of us predicted this:

7-15 (46%) - Phenomenal 

83 yards 0 TDs 

1 INT 3 PBUs - Very good

1 missed tackle (4%) - Great

 

Cole Bishop - Very limited playing time thus far, but should have career start #1 next week. Still only given up 2-4 for 17 yards. Has 1 PBU, but also has one missed tackle. 
 

Taylor Rapp - There is a chance that Taylor Rapp has actually been silently outstanding this season so far. He’s only been targeted 4 times all season, Miami and Baltimore didn’t target him at all (granted he played 9 snaps vs Balt). The result  has been 1 catch (25%) for 12 yards. He has 1 PBU and 1 tackle for loss, with only 1 missed tackle so far. 
 

Thoughts? Observations? 
 

🦬

Wee don't have a DB issue.  Look Baltimore was bad coaching,that's it.  I would add more size to our DT's and LB's, but that isn't why we lost.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Wee don't have a DB issue.  Look Baltimore was bad coaching,that's it.  I would add more size to our DT's and LB's, but that isn't why we lost.

Sadly this is true, & dreadful lack of in game adjustments I put on McDermott.

 

 

And just the week before we were all paranoid over which coordinator would we lose first?  Seems like a generation ago now.

[Drew21PA]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There seems to have been a narrative that our safety play has been pretty poor this season. While Hamlin, Rapp, and Bishop have had moments of struggles this season, some of the numbers are actually surprising. 
 

I’ll start off by saying our worst defender, by far, has been Cam Lewis. I’m not sure if he counts as a safety or not, he seems to be filling in at NCB for Johnson. Possibly rotating with Ingram, or is Ingram mainly been the dime DB? All I know is the QB stat line while targeting Cam is this:

 

22 of 29 (76%)

216 yards 

1 TD

7 missed tackles (20%)

 

Love our UB guys, as a UB guy myself, but he needs the bench, and he needs it badly.

 

Now for the other guys

 

Damar Hamlin - Hasn’t been perfect, probably isn’t a full time starter, but I don’t think any of us predicted this:

7-15 (46%) - Phenomenal 

83 yards 0 TDs 

1 INT 3 PBUs - Very good

1 missed tackle (4%) - Great

 

Cole Bishop - Very limited playing time thus far, but should have career start #1 next week. Still only given up 2-4 for 17 yards. Has 1 PBU, but also has one missed tackle. 
 

Taylor Rapp - There is a chance that Taylor Rapp has actually been silently outstanding this season so far. He’s only been targeted 4 times all season, Miami and Baltimore didn’t target him at all (granted he played 9 snaps vs Balt). The result  has been 1 catch (25%) for 12 yards. He has 1 PBU and 1 tackle for loss, with only 1 missed tackle so far. 
 

Thoughts? Observations? 
 

🦬

I’m against the grain here - I don’t think the safety play fron Rapp has been that bad

 

Hamlin has no business being an nfl starting safety he’s not mean enough…I’m hoping Cole bishop is ready very soon

 

our problem is definitely linebacker - and with injuries I think we all see that coming

 

dorian Williams is a disappointment for me - that kid gets abused so much and it won’t be pretty again this week against the Texans 

[Sweats]

I know it's actually not too bad, but i still puked a bit in my mouth.....

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Hamlin fails the eye test. I don’t care what some fancy stats say.  He sucks!

 

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Hamlin hasn’t been fine. He is terrible in the run game. I can’t wait to get Bishop in there and Edwards needs to be starting next to him until Rapp comes back 

1) Hamlin is washed. He plays way too tentatively. It’s understandable after his health scare. But before that incident, he at played faster and hit harder.

 

2) The reason Hamlin’s missed tackle rate is low is probably because he doesn’t even get into position enough to miss. At least Cam gets there, before he whiffs! 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

None of these guys are a straight up liability, but none is a game changer either. I’m really hoping Bishop can be that guy as he was my favorite player in the draft. Given McDs track record w/ DBs I think he will be alright. 
 

I think we’ve been spoiled too long w/ Poyer and Hyde. Those guys were special and played like a unit. The current roster is still gelling 

[pennstate10]

Hamlin , Rapp, and Lewis are all below average. 
 

Those numbers don’t address the horrendous run support in Baltimore game.

 

I also think that when they play a good pass attack, their coverage deficiencies will show. 

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There seems to have been a narrative that our safety play has been pretty poor this season. While Hamlin, Rapp, and Bishop have had moments of struggles this season, some of the numbers are actually surprising. 
 

I’ll start off by saying our worst defender, by far, has been Cam Lewis. I’m not sure if he counts as a safety or not, he seems to be filling in at NCB for Johnson. Possibly rotating with Ingram, or is Ingram mainly been the dime DB? All I know is the QB stat line while targeting Cam is this:

 

22 of 29 (76%)

216 yards 

1 TD

7 missed tackles (20%)

 

Love our UB guys, as a UB guy myself, but he needs the bench, and he needs it badly.

 

Now for the other guys

 

Damar Hamlin - Hasn’t been perfect, probably isn’t a full time starter, but I don’t think any of us predicted this:

7-15 (46%) - Phenomenal 

83 yards 0 TDs 

1 INT 3 PBUs - Very good

1 missed tackle (4%) - Great

 

Cole Bishop - Very limited playing time thus far, but should have career start #1 next week. Still only given up 2-4 for 17 yards. Has 1 PBU, but also has one missed tackle. 
 

Taylor Rapp - There is a chance that Taylor Rapp has actually been silently outstanding this season so far. He’s only been targeted 4 times all season, Miami and Baltimore didn’t target him at all (granted he played 9 snaps vs Balt). The result  has been 1 catch (25%) for 12 yards. He has 1 PBU and 1 tackle for loss, with only 1 missed tackle so far. 
 

Thoughts? Observations? 
 

🦬

I think overall Hamlin and Rapp been ok.  No impact plays really but also no glaring mistakes.  The way Hamlin is playing reminds me a lot of 2022. 

I think Babich and McDermott have been able to utilize them in C2 to protect against the big play.  I also think that the front 4 who had been generated good pressure prior to week 4 has helped a lot.  
 

With that being said, I think there are some limitations with both players and a big reason why the team will likely give more time to Bishop and likely Edwards as well.  

3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Sadly, there is a lot of evidence to support this thesis. 

 

Only questions are   how did we kill the Dolphins and  the Cardinals destroy the Rams?  We have been crushing Miami post Josh (provided were are not in the unshaded hot Miami weather ) and too many Rams injuries to overcome.

The safeties were being used deep to protect against big play.  McDermott normally has been very effective coaching against McDaniel’s offense.   Bills were ok giving up yards underneath in that game
 

 

[gtw3]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

my thoughts honestly...we have played probably 3 of the worst teams in the league thus far

 

just saying

Are they 3 of the worst teams in the league or is there such a disparity because of how badly we beat them?  Jacksonville has been competitive in nearly all of their games and Arizona has had flashes of looking good, including their big win over LA.  The dolphins are on a third string QB so they are a tough measure but going into that game, most people in the media had them picked to win.

 

It is easy to say that a team sucks because we beat them by a billion, but don't completely discredit or dismiss the team that DID the ass kicking.  Not everyone is beating them like that.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

1) Hamlin is washed. He plays way too tentatively. It’s understandable after his health scare. But before that incident, he at played faster and hit harder.

 

2) The reason Hamlin’s missed tackle rate is low is probably because he doesn’t even get into position enough to miss. At least Cam gets there, before he whiffs! 

 

As I casual observer who doesn't do All-22, I agree with #2!

[Sojourner]

4 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Wee don't have a DB issue.  Look Baltimore was bad coaching,that's it.  I would add more size to our DT's and LB's, but that isn't why we lost.

Safety is an issue brother. Hamlin, in the big games, is going to get eaten alive. He has to be in or around the LOS to be effective but since the injury/death he’s less head on in a tackle; rightly so. 
 

To play that free safety role you need reasonable speed and coverage skills. Hamlin sadly has neither. 
 

Im actually pretty fine with Rapp. Don’t think he’s that bad but personally I’d like Bishop to start getting his feet wet until something else can be done. I think he plays this week with Rapp not looking likely. Slide Hamlin to SS. 
 

The talk about Buddy Baker being available is where I’m going, especially if you believe there is an issue with the interior defense (DT/LB). 2 things fix that, pressure and better safety play as they are the backbone of mcd’s D. 
 

Get Budda. He’s played both Free and Strong very well in his career.
 

 

[Eastport bills]

10 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There seems to have been a narrative that our safety play has been pretty poor this season. While Hamlin, Rapp, and Bishop have had moments of struggles this season, some of the numbers are actually surprising. 
 

I’ll start off by saying our worst defender, by far, has been Cam Lewis. I’m not sure if he counts as a safety or not, he seems to be filling in at NCB for Johnson. Possibly rotating with Ingram, or is Ingram mainly been the dime DB? All I know is the QB stat line while targeting Cam is this:

 

22 of 29 (76%)

216 yards 

1 TD

7 missed tackles (20%)

 

Love our UB guys, as a UB guy myself, but he needs the bench, and he needs it badly.

 

Now for the other guys

 

Damar Hamlin - Hasn’t been perfect, probably isn’t a full time starter, but I don’t think any of us predicted this:

7-15 (46%) - Phenomenal 

83 yards 0 TDs 

1 INT 3 PBUs - Very good

1 missed tackle (4%) - Great

 

Cole Bishop - Very limited playing time thus far, but should have career start #1 next week. Still only given up 2-4 for 17 yards. Has 1 PBU, but also has one missed tackle. 
 

Taylor Rapp - There is a chance that Taylor Rapp has actually been silently outstanding this season so far. He’s only been targeted 4 times all season, Miami and Baltimore didn’t target him at all (granted he played 9 snaps vs Balt). The result  has been 1 catch (25%) for 12 yards. He has 1 PBU and 1 tackle for loss, with only 1 missed tackle so far. 
 

Thoughts? Observations? 
 

🦬

Our safeties were soft, slow and in the wrong coverage all night against Baltimore. For a team that played 2deep zone a lot , there were so many wide open receivers that I thought we had 9 players on the field. Against the run, we featured poor.tackling and made Ravens O- linemen and Henry look like HOF. I think if we were adding a player it would be at safety.

[Comebackkid]

look at how much space defenders were giving jags wrs.....tonssss.     hard to make plays when you have to run 10 yards after the catch.

 

i dont mind coverage but not the call me when you get there type of coverage we played last week

 

[Jimmy Harris 69]

What of Lewis Cine? We need playmakers, and this kid has more size and speed than Hamlin or Cam Lewis. It would be a shame if he just languished on the practice squad while we struggled on the field. Sunday will tell us much about the resiliency of this defense. 

[Scott7975]

13 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Hamlin hasn’t been fine. He is terrible in the run game. I can’t wait to get Bishop in there and Edwards needs to be starting next to him until Rapp comes back 

 

If you are relying on your two deep safety for run stop support then your running defense has bigger problems. Henry was going untouched for 5-7 yards a pop.  That isnt because of safety play.

 

As for the thread... yeah Cam Lewis has been the bigger problem.  I said before the Ravens game, in that "besides Josh Allen who has a big game" thread that Cam Lewis would have to have a big game if we are going to stop the Ravens offense.  He didn't and we didnt.

Edited October 4 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Our safeties were soft, slow and in the wrong coverage all night against Baltimore. For a team that played 2deep zone a lot , there were so many wide open receivers that I thought we had 9 players on the field. Against the run, we featured poor.tackling and made Ravens O- linemen and Henry look like HOF. I think if we were adding a player it would be at safety.

 

8 of Lamars 13 completions were at or behind the LoS. A 9th inside the 5.

 

 

Edited October 4 by Scott7975

[Eastport bills]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

8 of Lamars 13 completions were at or behind the LoS. A 9th inside the 5.

 

 

Unfortunately there were crucial 3 down and long, and 2nd down and long conversions in those other completions and long gains on the 5 yd dump offs you referenced to make up for the 156. Factor in over 250 in rush yds and the safeties look pretty invisible.

[boyst]

Captain hindsight is accurate. We have average safeties in this league playing a very complex and difficult system. We have a middle core unit of linebackers not winning their jobs. There are multitude of factors hampering us in various capacities on defense. So much so that our weaknesses on defense are not just one small detail.

[Sojourner]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If you are relying on your two deep safety for run stop support then your running defense has bigger problems. Henry was going untouched for 5-7 yards a pop.  That isnt because of safety play.

 

As for the thread... yeah Cam Lewis has been the bigger problem.  I said before the Ravens game, in that "besides Josh Allen who has a big game" thread that Cam Lewis would have to have a big game if we are going to stop the Ravens offense.  He didn't and we didnt.

youre absolutely right, the upfront play left a lot to be desired but a safety, especially strong is supposed to remedy that slightly and at least be on “clean up duty”. 
 

The last line of defense was a problem. All the jokes when we played the fish directed at poyer are even worse when you watch hamlin. 
 

not throwing him to the wolves because he has a place in the league but he’s no decisive and waits too long to make a decision on what to do. after watching the game a total of 3 times it’s clear there’s a problem. the Lamar TD to go up 28-10 is a prime example. Damar literally diagnoses the play but doesn’t commit, allows himself to get washed to the goaline then uselessly dives at the feet of their QB. 

 

when he was in the free role it was rough, when he slid into the strong side it was just as bad. 
 

He needs a pairing to gloss over his play and really I don’t think there’s a safety of quality to do that for him. 
 

Can Lewis was ok against AZ but there’s a reason the snap counts wills nosedive with Taron being back. He can’t be counted upon. If there was a “better” choice than Hamlin I think you’d see the same result.