Who was Josh gonna throw to on the “flea flicker” ?

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Everything about the play sucked.........no one was open, Hollins was the target and he was double covered and well at that. Josh should have ate it but it’s hard to really criticize, the play design was spectacularly terrible.  Not sure I would call it a Flea Flicker

Who I haven’t seen discussed is the player with the worst performance on that play - Dawkins. He completely whiffed on his block and his assignment blew up the play. It prevented Allen from running back across the field to his right, which looked to be the design. It not only took away that option, it forced a quick throw and got him hit. 

Edited October 3 by BarleyNY

[Bangarang]

13 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

WellI I disagree and the ball was going to the sideline in the endzone there for him.

 

You're objectively wrong then. The film doesn't lie.

[nedboy7]

Brady himself admitted it was a horrible decision.  Killed the game possibly.  Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson. 

[MikePJ76]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

You're objectively wrong then. The film doesn't lie.

Ok then.

[HardyBoy]

40 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Decide for yourself who Josh was supposed to throw top

 

 

Looks to me like the play was supposed to be for Allen to do an end around and to be rolling to his right, but he got cut off by the early penetration and the pitch from Samuel being behind him. 

[MikePJ76]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Looks to me like the play was supposed to be for Allen to do an end around and to be rolling to his right, but he got cut off by the early penetration and the pitch from Samuel being behind him. 

that was my original thought that he would rolling right and throwing to coleman over the middle which would be cleared out by Hollins running that deep corner route.   Watching the way brown and torrance blocked led me to believe that was the case but maybe Allen would have just stopped in the pocket and thrown to coleman.

 

I still think had he had a clean throw he might have tried a deep ball to Hollins that only he could catch on the sidleline in the endzone.

 

Dawkins got beat and the whole play was ruined as was the game.  Oh well.

[HardyBoy]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Who I haven’t seen discussed is the player with the worst performance on that play - Dawkins. He completely whiffed on his block and his assignment blew up the play. It prevented Allen from running back across the field to his right, which looked to be the design. It not only took away that option, it forced a quick throw and got him hit. 

 

Writing the same thing at the same time, but you got there first...ugh, Monica had to call me about something for work or I would have been first

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Looks to me like the play was supposed to be for Allen to do an end around and to be rolling to his right, but he got cut off by the early penetration and the pitch from Samuel being behind him. 

 

I don't want my franchise QB doing an end around. 

 

Isn't that why we signed Samuel? He has the speed to be effective on those gadget type plays. 

[stevewin]

Play design was so weird - and by weird I include stupid.  At first I thought for sure the play was designed to have Josh continue rolling to the right - and he stopped bc Van Noy blew it up.  But if he did continue to his right the routes when you look at them make even less sense.  Then if I think omg maybe Josh was supposed to awkwardly stop and move to his left like he did it makes it even more stupid.

[Captain_Quint]

31 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Don’t blame Josh at all but the whole game is different if he just tosses the ball out of bounds or goes down.

 

He tried to throw it and I doubt he even saw what was down there.

And if he does just throw it away, it's probably a 15yd roughing penalty on 98 if he hits Josh like he did. The only reason it wasn't roughing is because of the fumble, so he is no longer a 'passer' when the ball came out. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Everything about the play sucked.........no one was open, Hollins was the target and he was double covered and well at that. Josh should have ate it but its hard to really criticize, the play design was spectacularly terrible.  Not sure I would call it a Flea Flicker

Why would you take Samuel as the wildcat and have him run toward Josh knowing you're bringing all the pursuit to Josh.  At least let Josh do an end around mis-direction throw. That play design was pure LSD.

[BearNorth]

18 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Who I haven’t seen discussed is the player with the worst performance on that play - Dawkins. He completely whiffed on his block and his assignment blew up the play. It prevented Allen from running back across the field to his right, which looked to be the design. It not only took away that option, it forced a quick throw and got him hit. 

Knowing what we do today, was Dawkins playing hurt at that time?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

54 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

Every broadcast I've seen this year has done a terrible job with replays in general. They aren't showing what teams were trying to do. They aren't going back to missed catches to see if it should have been caught. They seem to have less clue than ever when flags are thrown. 

 

It would appear they have cut back on spotters, cameramen, etc. I guess when you are paying guys like Brady 36 mil per year, you have to cut costs somewhere. 

 

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. 

 

In this last game I noticed McGovern grabbing at his head while on the turf after a play (first play of our 2nd drive), but the broadcast completely missed it and didn't bother showing a replay. Then a few plays later he's taken off the field for concussion protocol. 

 

Then there was the huge clusterf* were Mcgovern came back onto the field after clearing protocol but the refs forced him back to the sideline again. Did we ever get an explanation for that? 

[HardyBoy]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

I don't want my franchise QB doing an end around. 

 

Isn't that why we signed Samuel? He has the speed to be effective on those gadget type plays. 

 

Ru fi ooooo

 

I mean they run Allen on power sweeps all the time

[BarleyNY]

9 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Knowing what we do today, was Dawkins playing hurt at that time?

That would certainly help explain why he never even touched Van Noy. 

Edit: Rewatched the play and Dawkins did manage to push Van Noy in the back a little bit as Van Noy hit Samuel. He then chased down Allen and stripped the ball while tackling him.

 

I am not arguing that this was a good play call, but if Van Noy gets blocked then it would’ve had a very different outcome. If Dawkins was already injured and the team knew it, then it was an indefensibly bad play call. 

Edited October 3 by BarleyNY

[strive_for_five_guy]

As soon as Josh decided against the end around and needed to go back left, the play went from a bad play call to even worse.  Best option then would have been to throw the ball away, but the whole play was really doomed from the start.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Man with No Name said:

Every broadcast I've seen this year has done a terrible job with replays in general. They aren't showing what teams were trying to do. They aren't going back to missed catches to see if it should have been caught. They seem to have less clue than ever when flags are thrown. 

 

It would appear they have cut back on spotters, cameramen, etc. I guess when you are paying guys like Brady 36 mil per year, you have to cut costs somewhere. 

That or the NFL is directing them not to show replays to make refs look bad or get fans upset etc. 

[HardyBoy]

7 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Why would you take Samuel as the wildcat and have him run toward Josh knowing you're bringing all the pursuit to Josh.  At least let Josh do an end around mis-direction throw. That play design was pure LSD.

 

I wasn't looking at the TV until right before the ball was snapped on that play...seeing Samuel in shotgun and then watching that play go down without having any context whatsoever...definitely felt like pure lsd a bit

[Bangarang]

20 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Ru fi ooooo

 

I mean they run Allen on power sweeps all the time

 

On 3rd and 4th down primarily.

 

It was 2nd and 7 when we ran that abomination of a trick play 

Edited October 3 by Bangarang

[Bookie Man]

Oddly designed play. The pursuit basically led the DLine running right towards Josh. If you're going to try something like that, have Cook in the backfield for a reverse to Samuel, then flea flicker. That way the pursuit actually has to change directions and there's more eye candy. Way higher chance of success. 

 

Also side note. If they're trying to find ways to get Samuel in the game plan, why not get him going on some jet sweeps/more quick screens. Seems like those would be things he excels at.