Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: For this question, let’s assume that they can work the money out. If the Raiders eat salary it’s doable. I just don’t want the excuse to be “we can’t afford him.” Let’s assume that they can make it work. Would you rather have Adams or Hollins on this team? I’d rather explore other options. We prioritize culture, and we’re built by losing Dareus and Darby. Round peg, square hole imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t think that this is the move for them either. I am challenging the notion that they’d be better off without him because of his personality. That’s nonsense. They absolutely need an injection of talent and he’s elite talent. They should be on the phone seeing what this, or other moves, might look like. Despite what we were led to believe on this message board, they did not “quietly get better.” Yea the facts, uncomfortable as they are, are that a clearly diminished Stefon Diggs still has more yards and touchdowns through four games than the Bills leading receiver. That is not me saying "we should have kept Diggs." Even as one of his biggest fans from way before his Bills tenure it was clear to me by the back end of last season that it had run its course. But there was no element of losing him that made us better even though he isn't the guy now he was in his prime here. To get better they had to improve the receiver room and they didn't do that. Whether they should make a deadline move for me is very dependent on where they stand at that point. I'm just not sure this team is a contender in 2024. I wasn't before the season and I'm not now. And I don't know that a half season rental of one of these vet receivers moves the dial enough to make me think they are. If we get to the deadline and we are say 7-2 or something, sure, worth the price, make the move. If we are more in the 5-4 territory honestly I'd let it ride and keep as much of our powder dry for next offseason as possible. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 22 minutes ago, Pete said: I’d rather explore other options. We prioritize culture, and we’re built by losing Dareus and Darby. Round peg, square hole imo That doesn’t answer the question. If they could make the money work, would you rather they employ Mack Hollins or Davante Adams? Door number 3 wasn’t a part of the question. 18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea the facts, uncomfortable as they are, are that a clearly diminished Stefon Diggs still has more yards and touchdowns through four games than the Bills leading receiver. That is not me saying "we should have kept Diggs." Even as one of his biggest fans from way before his Bills tenure it was clear to me by the back end of last season that it had run its course. But there was no element of losing him that made us better even though he isn't the guy now he was in his prime here. To get better they had to improve the receiver room and they didn't do that. Whether they should make a deadline move for me is very dependent on where they stand at that point. I'm just not sure this team is a contender in 2024. I wasn't before the season and I'm not now. And I don't know that a half season rental of one of these vet receivers moves the dial enough to make me think they are. If we get to the deadline and we are say 7-2 or something, sure, worth the price, make the move. If we are more in the 5-4 territory honestly I'd let it ride and keep as much of our powder dry for next offseason as possible. Fair enough and we slightly disagree as to whether or not they are contenders. Before the year, I thought somewhere between 9-7 and 12-5 and a likely division title. I lean towards the higher end now. What I didn’t expect to happen was for so many “good teams” to be as flawed as they are. The top teams in 2024, at this point, are not at the level of the top teams of the last bunch of years. I think that the Bills have an opportunity because no one is dominant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea the facts, uncomfortable as they are, are that a clearly diminished Stefon Diggs still has more yards and touchdowns through four games than the Bills leading receiver. That is not me saying "we should have kept Diggs." Even as one of his biggest fans from way before his Bills tenure it was clear to me by the back end of last season that it had run its course. But there was no element of losing him that made us better even though he isn't the guy now he was in his prime here. To get better they had to improve the receiver room and they didn't do that. Whether they should make a deadline move for me is very dependent on where they stand at that point. I'm just not sure this team is a contender in 2024. I wasn't before the season and I'm not now. And I don't know that a half season rental of one of these vet receivers moves the dial enough to make me think they are. If we get to the deadline and we are say 7-2 or something, sure, worth the price, make the move. If we are more in the 5-4 territory honestly I'd let it ride and keep as much of our powder dry for next offseason as possible. I don’t care that Diggs is out producing Shakir, I’m pissed off he might be out producing Samuel/Hollins/Coleman/MVS combined… Coleman has had some bright spots but what’s the point of these vets that are doing nothing for us. To me I’d rather a young player struggling to produce than a vet. Beane has wiffed on the WR position 3 years in a row. This time last year Shakir was sitting behind the same kind of vets struggling to get opportunities, now he’s the #1 guy. Makes you think alittle. Also wasting time with Hamlin and Bishop on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 This should be taken into consideration Davante Adams has had 72 catches for 910 yards and has scored 8 touchdowns in 11 games in the playoffs in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 The one thing I’ll say is nobody will be mad if we get Adams. It would end up being something that can help is win the Super Bowl. I’m not concerned about the compensation. I’m sure we won’t do it but I wish we would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Devante is a great talent, but after watching Receivers on Netflix, I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team. It takes a certain culture to be able to handle an ego like his. I was actually shocked at how accommodating the Raiders were to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: Devante is a great talent, but after watching Receivers on Netflix, I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team. It takes a certain culture to be able to handle an ego like his. I was actually shocked at how accommodating the Raiders were to him. I think that holds true to a degree. When your QB is your best player and biggest star, you can check that ego. Brady and Moss, electric. Allen and Diggs, great. Mahomes and Tyreek, fantastic. Rodgers and Adams, amazing. The Bills are one of the few teams that can check that ego. If he goes to Pittsburgh, for example, it could be ugly (although Tomlin masterfully navigated that lunatic Antonio Brown). Edited October 2 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think Adams is one of the best WR's in football...but...are the Bills going to bring in someone who has complained about his lack of involvement during wins? A guy who keeps throwing his helmet and showing frustration on the sidelines more than Diggs ever did here? Maybe Adams would be on his best behavior here to be back with a stud QB like Allen, and I wouldn't be upset if we got him. But feels like a weird trade target given we just paid $31M to trade away a guy who created tension over his role in the offense that want's to feature everyone rather than focus on a primary receiver. https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/19/raiders-davante-adams-frustrated-by-role-despite-win-over-patriots- Again, I wouldn't be mad if Adams wound up on this team, I mean we all want a SB and bring on whoever helps us get there. But just not sure they are going to see him as the right fit for the locker room and philosophy. But man is still a beast on the field Exactly this. He's about himself. The great Mike Evans had 1 catch for 31 yards in Super Bowl LV. I'm sure it isn't lost on Mike all he did for the team to get to the Super Bowl and whatever attention he drew or blocks he threw to open things up for his teammates. Devante, on the hand... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I really don't expect the Bills to be in on this one. Doesn't strike me as their type of person and the contract makes it more tricky as well. And then his age is another factor. I think Cooper and Hopkins are both more realistic moves than Adams. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a massive upgrade to the room - he would - I'd just be surprised if this is a move the Bills want to make. I still remember Beane attempting to trade for Antonio Brown in early 2020 who, thankfully, did not want to come here. At some point, the established culture has to be able to take in a veteran and get them to play their way. And if it can't, that's not a good indication all is well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I still remember Beane attempting to trade for Antonio Brown in early 2020 who, thankfully, did not want to come here. At some point, the established culture has to be able to take in a veteran and get them to play their way. And if it can't, that's not a good indication all is well. It did for three years with Stefon Diggs. At the moment with a younger, less established, leadership group I'd be surprised if they took that risk. That isn't to say I think they are right to pass. As I said above it will depend for me where the Bills are record wise coming up to the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It did for three years with Stefon Diggs. At the moment with a younger, less established, leadership group I'd be surprised if they took that risk. That isn't to say I think they are right to pass. As I said above it will depend for me where the Bills are record wise coming up to the deadline. Diggs is a twit, but it's still speculation why he wanted out and management made that deal. They certainly didn't have a replacement on the roster and weren't going to draft anyone. That situation was the combination of several factors, but no one knows for sure and OBD isn't telling. I subscribe to the idea that leadership should be expected to integrate personalities and not avoid them entirely. Otherwise, you end up with choir boys who lack talent and that last element is not available at WR right now. For all the talk about Shakir, he's still a slot receiver. Coleman, Hollins, MVS, and Samuel are as expected by this point. Going to be other options besides Adams at the deadline, but waiting has a price. And then there's keeping the QB happy and giving him the tools to win, particularly when the game doesn't go according to script. T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 8 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Diggs is a twit, but it's still speculation why he wanted out and management made that deal. They certainly didn't have a replacement on the roster and weren't going to draft anyone. That situation was the combination of several factors, but no one knows for sure and OBD isn't telling. I subscribe to the idea that leadership should be expected to integrate personalities and not avoid them entirely. Otherwise, you end up with choir boys who lack talent and that last element is not available at WR right now. For all the talk about Shakir, he's still a slot receiver. Coleman, Hollins, MVS, and Samuel are as expected by this point. Going to be other options besides Adams at the deadline, but waiting has a price. And then there's keeping the QB happy and giving him the tools to win, particularly when the game doesn't go according to script. T The big factor in the Diggs departure was his relationship with Josh had totally broken down. I'm not defending how the Bills have handled the WR position, I have been critical of it for 3 years now. They put themselves in this position by neglecting it in 2020 and 2021 when they were considered to be in a relative position of strength at the spot and then have been chasing their tail ever since. But they did show with Diggs they were willing to integrate a non-choir boy. I'm just not sure they will be at this time with a younger leadership group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: That doesn’t answer the question. If they could make the money work, would you rather they employ Mack Hollins or Davante Adams? Door number 3 wasn’t a part of the question. Fair enough and we slightly disagree as to whether or not they are contenders. Before the year, I thought somewhere between 9-7 and 12-5 and a likely division title. I lean towards the higher end now. What I didn’t expect to happen was for so many “good teams” to be as flawed as they are. The top teams in 2024, at this point, are not at the level of the top teams of the last bunch of years. I think that the Bills have an opportunity because no one is dominant. For the Bills,, I much prefer Hollins 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 12 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said: I was initially against the Adams idea (too diva), but no guarantees after this year, which means he'll be in his best behavior, chasing new money. He's an upgrade to diggs, and is better made for the playoffs as diggs. You literally have to redo adams deal to have the space to fit him. You dont think that new deal will come with out year guarantees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yea the facts, uncomfortable as they are, are that a clearly diminished Stefon Diggs still has more yards and touchdowns through four games than the Bills leading receiver. That’s missing a lot of context. Houston has had to battle all 4 games start to finish. Bills had 2 pass attempts week 1 until 2 min left in the first half and then Allen went on to complete 18 total passes but to 9 different receivers while we scored 31 points in 31 minutes. Week 2 Cook took over and the Bills offense went on vacation the 2nd half. Week 3 Allen completed passes to 10 different receivers, scored 5 TDs on 5 drives, then again the offense took a vacation the second half. Through the first 3 games, the offense was on the field looking to pass just barely over 2 halves of football through 3 games and Allen hit 9 and 10 different receivers in those games. Diggs has 25 rec, 233 yards, 9.8 ypc, and 2 TDs. Shakir has 18 rec, 230 yards, 12.8 ypc, and 2 TDs. No disrespect, but these kind of comments are just misleading. Citing Diggs has more yards than our leading receiver creates a false positive assumption. Shakir in less opportunities has essentially the same yards and TDs on less catches. He’s clearly having a better season than Diggs at this point but you would not know that based on your very specific chosen phrasing. Coleman is averaging 15.8 ypc as well compared to Diggs 9.3 and he essentially played only a quarter week 3 after being benched first quarter and offense taking off the 2nd half. What Diggs is doing is Houston has little to no value for what our offense needs or is missing here. That doesn’t mean that someone else couldn’t help this team, it just means that Diggs having more yards is a completely irrelevant statement given the context of him have just 2 yards more despite significantly more opportunities through the context of their 4 games compared to ours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Didn't we just trade a 30+ WR who wanted the ball every play? So we're going to add another 1, why trade Diggs in the 1st place then? How can we preach "everyone eats" after this? Imo the Bills aren't even making a call to see how much money they can save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: That’s missing a lot of context. Houston has had to battle all 4 games start to finish. Bills had 2 pass attempts week 1 until 2 min left in the first half and then Allen went on to complete 18 total passes but to 9 different receivers while we scored 31 points in 31 minutes. Week 2 Cook took over and the Bills offense went on vacation the 2nd half. Week 3 Allen completed passes to 10 different receivers, scored 5 TDs on 5 drives, then again the offense took a vacation the second half. Through the first 3 games, the offense was on the field looking to pass just barely over 2 halves of football through 3 games and Allen hit 9 and 10 different receivers in those games. Diggs has 25 rec, 233 yards, 9.8 ypc, and 2 TDs. Shakir has 18 rec, 230 yards, 12.8 ypc, and 2 TDs. No disrespect, but these kind of comments are just misleading. Citing Diggs has more yards than our leading receiver creates a false positive assumption. Shakir in less opportunities has essentially the same yards and TDs on less catches. He’s clearly having a better season than Diggs at this point but you would not know that based on your very specific chosen phrasing. Coleman is averaging 15.8 ypc as well compared to Diggs 9.3 and he essentially played only a quarter week 3 after being benched first quarter and offense taking off the 2nd half. What Diggs is doing is Houston has little to no value for what our offense needs or is missing here. That doesn’t mean that someone else couldn’t help this team, it just means that Diggs having more yards is a completely irrelevant statement given the context of him have just 2 yards more despite significantly more opportunities through the context of their 4 games compared to ours. Or, part of the problem is Bobby Slowik is an underperforming OC who isn't maximizing the resources he has to work with which has contributed to their slow offensive start. This is an issue that goes beyond just player stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 15 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Or, part of the problem is Bobby Slowik is an underperforming OC who isn't maximizing the resources he has to work with which has contributed to their slow offensive start. This is an issue that goes beyond just player stats. Yet Diggs averaged 8.9 ypc his last 10 games here too. 9.3 now in his first 4 in Houston. Meanwhile Nico Collins is leading the NFL in receiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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