Joe Marino All-22 review - "The coaches were duds"

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

He ran for 100+ after the 1st drive I didn’t see an over reaction.

 

The two drives after the first touchdown the Bills went base personnel and heavy boxes and Henry had 5 carries for 17 yards on the ground. Unfortunately the Ravens marched down the field twice and scored two touchdowns because the Bills in base were totally incapable of stopping them attacking the edges and the little running back flare routes. It was an overreaction. They hit you with one great play where they called it perfectly, executed perfectly and hit a long touchdown and the Bills panicked and made an adjustment that led to 14 points on the next two drives. They should have stayed in their defense and tried to settle in. Instead they ended up with a guy who doesn't belong on an NFL roster being absolutely brutalised in coverage for two straight series and 21-3 behind. 

Edited October 2 by GunnerBill

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Warren Sharp today called McD the purgatory HC.  He's just not going to get better in-game and adapt philosophically.  

 

 

 

 

he's not wrong

 

 it takes a pretty specific ability to react and adapt on the fly if you want to go undefeated through the course of an nfl postseason

[BlazinBill]

Listen -

I love the Bills- always have and always will- but as good as a coach McDermott is and as good of a job he has done turning this organization around after the carousel of nonsense that went on.... Sadly I don't think he has it. Whenever the times or games mean a lot the Bills just seem out coached - 

At the end of the day it's week 4, and no one is crowned a looser or a winner until February.

We will likely win the division and put in a show like they do but I just don't think we will ever get over the hump while he's at the helm- this is not me riding the wave of nonsense because of this weeks performance.

It's just the way I felt after last year and led to an off-season where I just didn't get up with my normal excitement.

Maybe I'm just old or maybe I've just lost my fan hood and should stop commenting. 

I would love to have a full 10 course meal of crow and be wrong 

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Joe breaks down losses better than anyone else in the Bills media sphere. I highly recommend listening to the entire episode. Here are my notes:

 

-Joe was blown away (in a bad way) by our plan on defense. He points out that the Ravens ran the ball out of heavy personnel 82% of the time. The Bills responded by giving them light boxes on 41.2% of rushing plays... Heavy boxes on only 8.8% of rushing plays... Derrick Henry was getting 5.57 yards before contact, and the Ravens as a whole were gaining 8.0 YPC, but we never adjusted. And this was coming off a week where the Ravens rushed for over 270 yards against Dallas so it's not like their offensive game plan was a big shocker. Our defensive game plan gave the Ravens the exact game script they wanted. 

 

-Joe says the Ravens also took advantage of our defensive line tendencies. We run a penetration style defense and the Ravens repeatedly invited Ed Oliver to get up field before wham blocking him out of the play. Again Joe blames defensive coaching for never adjusting to get away from our tendencies, which made things too easy on the Ravens.

 

-Overall on defense he says he wishes some of the players at all levels played better, but he mostly blames the coaches for putting the players into positions where they couldn't be successful. He says Derrick Henry is obviously a great player, but that any RB could have ripped off his two biggest runs where we didn't even lay a finger on him. We needed to force the Ravens to run their offense through the passing game, and instead we gave them easy opportunities to run against light or neutral boxes and they gashed us all night long because of it.

 

-On offense Joe doesn't have as much to say. His big takeaway is that the failures on offense were less about pass catchers uncovering, and more about complete breakdowns in the protection scheme. He points out the Ravens only blitzed 25% of the time, but the threat of the blitz forced us to max protect so frequently that we were sometimes sending 2-3 pass catchers into 5-6 coverage players. The OL did an awful job of passing rushers off which led to too many jailbreaks before routes could develop.

 

So those are his takeaways. Less on the players, more on coaching. On defense we were stubborn and decided to just "do what we do" instead of adjusting our style for the opponent. On offense Brady did not have his players ready to deal with any of the Ravens pressure looks and he never found any answers. We got out coached in pretty much every facet of the game and it showed up on the scoreboard.

 

One positive takeaway - all of these issues are solvable. Failure to execute is a tough problem to figure out in the middle of a season, but failure to gameplan and adjust is entirely fixable if the coaches hold themselves accountable.

 

Funny, I made a thread on this with the youtube version and they moved it into the post game thread.  /shrug 

 

Coaches were terrible this game.  Did not put players in position to succeed. This game was definitely more a coaching failure than it was a player failure.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

You don't have to change personnel to have more defenders in the box, though.

That was going to my point.  We didn’t need to get out of nickel, but we could’ve sent a bigger safety up in the box, who is by nature faster than a backup LB.

 

Where I agree with Mariano’s criticism is we were totally outcoached and did not adjust throughout the game.  We dropped Poyer up last year as we was smaller, but smarter and faster with good angles.

[balln]

11 minutes ago, BlazinBill said:

Listen -

I love the Bills- always have and always will- but as good as a coach McDermott is and as good of a job he has done turning this organization around after the carousel of nonsense that went on.... Sadly I don't think he has it. Whenever the times or games mean a lot the Bills just seem out coached - 

At the end of the day it's week 4, and no one is crowned a looser or a winner until February.

We will likely win the division and put in a show like they do but I just don't think we will ever get over the hump while he's at the helm- this is not me riding the wave of nonsense because of this weeks performance.

It's just the way I felt after last year and led to an off-season where I just didn't get up with my normal excitement.

Maybe I'm just old or maybe I've just lost my fan hood and should stop commenting. 

I would love to have a full 10 course meal of crow and be wrong 

I’m with you. I’ve felt this way after :13. And nothing he’s done has made it better. Actually the opposite
 

hes conservative/scared and his players do the same. 
 

Defense and championship attitudes are about aggression and playing hard. He’s read and react and passive 

[BlazinBill]

15 minutes ago, balln said:

I’m with you. I’ve felt this way after :13. And nothing he’s done has made it better. Actually the opposite
 

hes conservative/scared and his players do the same. 
 

Defense and championship attitudes are about aggression and playing hard. He’s read and react and passive 

I struggle with him- his defense can look sooo damn dominant but he's Soo incredibly stubborn on staying 100 percent in his defense - I used to blame Frazier but I don't know man.

I'm trying to not be that way, I really am but man rinse and repeat constantly 

Kinda reminds me of...

The fool.me twice phrase - 

I tried to attach the link to Bush butchering it for some comedy but I failed 

Edited October 1 by BlazinBill

[BillsFan130]

9 minutes ago, balln said:

I’m with you. I’ve felt this way after :13. And nothing he’s done has made it better. Actually the opposite
 

hes conservative/scared and his players do the same. 
 

Defense and championship attitudes are about aggression and playing hard. He’s read and react and passive 

The most annoying part is he is aggressive against bad/average teams, but then against good teams he goes conservative.

 

Example: JAX 1st drive of the game- 4th and 3 around midfield and he goes for it.

 

Baltimore 1st drive of the game- 4th and 2 around midfield and punts.

 

Makes 0 sense to me- You think you would want the opposite mindset, and not punt in those situations when you are facing great QBs

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also I'm not convinced we have true complementary football going... I know the Chiefs from last year are the epitome of the "small ball" philosophy. They made it work. But they had a defense that can shut teams down in an ugly game while their offense figures it out, and they had an elite kicker that is almost automatic within 55 yards. We have neither. So we have a defense that realistically needs us to score 30 points against any decent opponent to have a chance, we have a kicker that can't be trusted at all, and we have an offense that has to execute 10 plays to perfection to have a successful TD drive. It is the definition of low margin for error football. So yeah when everything goes right against a soft opponent we are going to demolish them, but the moment any adversity hits and we're dragged into a real battle we aren't remotely built for that sort of game script. Which is worrying because that is playoff football in a nutshell.

 

This is the type of stuff I said last year when everyone was complaining that we werent running small ball.

[Drew21PA]

Ok so I’m not for replacing McDermott mid season - I’m not a fan of his either after his constant short comings in the playoffs 

 

BUT if he chokes again - you have to give serious consideration to letting him go

 

josh Allen is the reason he wins - and McDermott himself is the reason they lose (to the chiefs multiple times in the playoffs now )

 

the brass has to wonder - would Josh Allen still win with a coach other than McDermott - answer is 110% yes 

 

Can McDermott win without Josh ?

 

110% no

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

This is the type of stuff I said last year when everyone was complaining that we werent running small ball.

same same same

 

people convinced themselves a conservative offense was safer because it was lower variance

 

turns out small ball's margin for error is essential nil w/ this squad

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

Warren Sharp today called McD the purgatory HC.  He's just not going to get better in-game and adapt philosophically.  

 

 

 

 

 

Im not quite there yet with McD but I did not like his decisions. Punting in that situation was absolutely a bad choice.  The team is down 2 scores, defense cant stop a nose bleed. Josh makes that first down most of the time. The team absolutely could not go down by 3 scores. I knew that was going to happen and said it in the GDT.

[balln]

42 minutes ago, BlazinBill said:

I struggle with him- his defense can look sooo damn dominant but he's Soo incredibly stubborn on staying 100 percent in his defense - I used to blame Frazier but I don't know man.

I'm trying to not be that way, I really am but man rinse and repeat constantly 

Kinda reminds me of...

The fool.me twice phrase - 

I tried to attach the link to Bush butchering it for some comedy but I failed 

No struggle needed. His D will be dominant against mediocre and bad qb. Any running / scrambling qb will feast or burrow/ mahommes will absolutely pick his zone apart. I’m over it. It’s just all on Allen. That’s all 

 

McD is the DAK Prescott of head coaches. They’re in HC purgatory. It’s fine

Edited October 1 by balln

[harmonkillebrew]

10 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Completely agree.  The moment we went heavy with Morrow, Hill abused him.  There wasn't a solution with the talent we had on the field.  This is where a heavy concept with Williams/Milano/Bernard looks a lot different than Morrow/Spector/Williams.  I dont know that we could have held the Ravens below 28 points even executing our gameplan well.

What did they start doing in the second half because it seemed to work relatively well?  

From what I saw they crowded the box with Safeties and had more penetration by LBs

[Ga boy]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

I’ll choose to think this is what the coaches decided on Sunday.  

 

 

Football is like this too.  
 

The Ravens will not see up and in fastballs in January.  
 

Also, I just love this clip.  
 

MLB Playoffs are here!!!

Totally agree.  I said in another thread that our coaches aren’t too troubled by this loss.  Ravens showed all their cards.  We have film now of their tendencies on our plays.  It’s a chess match.  We will be ready, but we need starters healthy.  

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, balln said:

I’m with you. I’ve felt this way after :13. And nothing he’s done has made it better. Actually the opposite
 

hes conservative/scared and his players do the same. 
 

Defense and championship attitudes are about aggression and playing hard. He’s read and react and passive 

He’s definitely not conservative.  You developed that feelings years ago and while he’s adapted, you haven’t.  
 

scared…..  that’s not something quantifiable so I won’t comment on it.  But being conservative is and he isn’t.  
He’s shown the ability to change and adapt and that’s gives me a glimmer of hope.  I think he’s actively trying to improve as a HC.

 
 

 

 

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

same same same

 

people convinced themselves a conservative offense was safer because it was lower variance

 

turns out small ball's margin for error is essential nil w/ this squad

Turns out no one is able to throw the ball very effectively this season and the running game and defense is what wins

[Ga boy]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

The most annoying part is he is aggressive against bad/average teams, but then against good teams he goes conservative.

 

Example: JAX 1st drive of the game- 4th and 3 around midfield and he goes for it.

 

Baltimore 1st drive of the game- 4th and 2 around midfield and punts.

 

Makes 0 sense to me- You think you would want the opposite mindset, and not punt in those situations when you are facing great QBs

I think it’s the right call to punt against KC, Cincy and Ravens.  Don’t give them a short field early on.  If our D was legit maybe.  The contenders in our division have better D.  It’s our D that makes the O conservative against better teams.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

I think it’s the right call to punt against KC, Cincy and Ravens.  Don’t give them a short field early on.  If our D was legit maybe.  The contenders in our division have better D.  It’s our D that makes the O conservative against better teams.

 

I do not. Not when the D cant stop a nose bleed and we were already down two scores.  Going down 3 scores is too much a mountain to climb.  Josh is almost automatic in that yardage.  It was successful on the first drive of the game.  Same spot, same yardage, score was 0-0.  It made more sense to go for it when they punted then when they actually went for it on the first drive.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s definitely not conservative.  You developed that feelings years ago and while he’s adapted, you haven’t.  
 

scared…..  that’s not something quantifiable so I won’t comment on it.  But being conservative is and he isn’t.  
He’s shown the ability to change and adapt and that’s gives me a glimmer of hope.  I think he’s actively trying to improve as a HC.

 
 

 

 

Turns out no one is able to throw the ball very effectively this season and the running game and defense is what wins

Pretty sure if I gave you the top 10 or so passing offenses thus far you'd say in general those were a group of the good teams

 

If I gave you the bottom 10 you would say those were the worst

[Ga boy]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I do not. Not when the D cant stop a nose bleed and we were already down two scores.  Going down 3 scores is too much a mountain to climb.  Josh is almost automatic in that yardage.  It was successful on the first drive of the game.  Same spot, same yardage, score was 0-0.  It made more sense to go for it when they punted then when they actually went for it on the first drive.

Yes I see your point but most NFL coaches would punt away on the premise that you don’t give good teams short fields (if the 4th down fails).  I’m all for going for it from my EZBoy.