Joe Marino All-22 review - "The coaches were duds"

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s definitely not conservative.  You developed that feelings years ago and while he’s adapted, you haven’t.  
 

scared…..  that’s not something quantifiable so I won’t comment on it.  But being conservative is and he isn’t.  
He’s shown the ability to change and adapt and that’s gives me a glimmer of hope.  I think he’s actively trying to improve as a HC.

 
 

 

 

Turns out no one is able to throw the ball very effectively this season and the running game and defense is what wins

 

He was better about this in 2022 and 2023, but he's back to being conservative on 4th down this season. Punting on 4th and 2 from the 48 on our first possession was fairly cowardly. Punting on 4th and 1 from our 39 when we were down 14-3 (and the DEF not even slowing the Ravens down) was mind boggling. 

 

 

[Simon]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Brady has to do a better job being ready to adjust to defenses that are dictating terms

 

This was the one thing that really spooked me Sunday night.

I don't know Brady well enough to know whether that unwillingness to adapt is an issue that could be ongoing or whether it was just an outlier.

 

If it's an outlier, we're fine; I think this offense is versatile enough to handle any defensive looks they get.

If it's not an outlier, we might as well start planning for the future because that stubbornness is not sustainable in this league. 

[Cray51]

3 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

What did they start doing in the second half because it seemed to work relatively well?  

From what I saw they crowded the box with Safeties and had more penetration by LBs

I think Gunnar highlighted that they committed Spector and Williams to attacking downhill no matter what, and it forced Lamar to be the one to make plays instead of Henry

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Joe breaks down losses better than anyone else in the Bills media sphere. I highly recommend listening to the entire episode. Here are my notes:

 

-Joe was blown away (in a bad way) by our plan on defense. He points out that the Ravens ran the ball out of heavy personnel 82% of the time. The Bills responded by giving them light boxes on 41.2% of rushing plays... Heavy boxes on only 8.8% of rushing plays... Derrick Henry was getting 5.57 yards before contact, and the Ravens as a whole were gaining 8.0 YPC, but we never adjusted. And this was coming off a week where the Ravens rushed for over 270 yards against Dallas so it's not like their offensive game plan was a big shocker. Our defensive game plan gave the Ravens the exact game script they wanted. 

 

-Joe says the Ravens also took advantage of our defensive line tendencies. We run a penetration style defense and the Ravens repeatedly invited Ed Oliver to get up field before wham blocking him out of the play. Again Joe blames defensive coaching for never adjusting to get away from our tendencies, which made things too easy on the Ravens.

 

-Overall on defense he says he wishes some of the players at all levels played better, but he mostly blames the coaches for putting the players into positions where they couldn't be successful. He says Derrick Henry is obviously a great player, but that any RB could have ripped off his two biggest runs where we didn't even lay a finger on him. We needed to force the Ravens to run their offense through the passing game, and instead we gave them easy opportunities to run against light or neutral boxes and they gashed us all night long because of it.

 

-On offense Joe doesn't have as much to say. His big takeaway is that the failures on offense were less about pass catchers uncovering, and more about complete breakdowns in the protection scheme. He points out the Ravens only blitzed 25% of the time, but the threat of the blitz forced us to max protect so frequently that we were sometimes sending 2-3 pass catchers into 5-6 coverage players. The OL did an awful job of passing rushers off which led to too many jailbreaks before routes could develop.

 

So those are his takeaways. Less on the players, more on coaching. On defense we were stubborn and decided to just "do what we do" instead of adjusting our style for the opponent. On offense Brady did not have his players ready to deal with any of the Ravens pressure looks and he never found any answers. We got out coached in pretty much every facet of the game and it showed up on the scoreboard.

 

One positive takeaway - all of these issues are solvable. Failure to execute is a tough problem to figure out in the middle of a season, but failure to gameplan and adjust is entirely fixable if the coaches hold themselves accountable.

They're not solvable because McDermott will do it over and over again till the end of time. 8% heavy boxes just validates McDermott's idiotic stubborness  to make any intelligent early adjustments.  King Henry had to be licking his chops.  This is why elite teams in the playoffs own Mc13. This is why Andy fired him.  I've seen this movie before...Rosebud.

Edited October 2 by LABILLBACKER

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

He was better about this in 2022 and 2023, but he's back to being conservative on 4th down this season. Punting on 4th and 2 from the 48 on our first possession was fairly cowardly. Punting on 4th and 1 from our 39 when we were down 14-3 (and the DEF not even slowing the Ravens down) was mind boggling. 

 

 

4 game sample. Let’s see how this shakes up at the end of the year.  
 

Happen to have those stats for the previous 2 seasons?

[NewEra]

Pretty sure team passing around the league is down 16 ypg from last year and almost 40 yyg lower than 2020.  It’s also the lowest since 2003.

 

Pretty sure team rushing is the second highest yards per game since 1988. 4.4 yards per rush is tied for the 2nd highest in league history 

 

Edited October 2 by NewEra

[balln]

9 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

He was better about this in 2022 and 2023, but he's back to being conservative on 4th down this season. Punting on 4th and 2 from the 48 on our first possession was fairly cowardly. Punting on 4th and 1 from our 39 when we were down 14-3 (and the DEF not even slowing the Ravens down) was mind boggling. 

 

 

This what I’m saying @GunnerBill

 

i agree- he’s trying to change. But that is it.

[BillsFan130]

10 hours ago, Ga boy said:

I think it’s the right call to punt against KC, Cincy and Ravens.  Don’t give them a short field early on.  If our D was legit maybe.  The contenders in our division have better D.  It’s our D that makes the O conservative against better teams.

Interesting point as I had a convo with someone in the game day thread and they said the same thing where you should punt against those teams.

 

I see it the opposite way- when you play great offences, I would try to get as many points as I can and try to keep the ball away from them as much as possible.

 

Like if Mahomes , Lamar or burrow are on, does it really make that much of a difference if they start at the 15 or 45?

Edited October 2 by BillsFan130

[BillsFan130]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The two drives after the first touchdown the Bills went base personnel and heavy boxes and Henry had 5 carries for 17 yards on the ground. Unfortunately the Ravens marched down the field twice and scored two touchdowns because the Bills in base were totally incapable of stopping them attacking the edges and the little running back flare routes. It was an overreaction. They hit you with one great play where they called it perfectly, executed perfectly and hit a long touchdown and the Bills panicked and made an adjustment that led to 14 points on the next two drives. They should have stayed in their defense and tried to settle in. Instead they ended up with a guy who doesn't belong on an NFL roster being absolutely brutalised in coverage for two straight series and 21-3 behind. 

I think the bills had the wrong mindset going in though.

 

Whats the best thing Baltimore does? Clearly running the ball.

 

Whats the number one golden rule from Belichick, one of the best coaches of all time?

 

Take away what the other team does best.

 

I think the bills should have stacked the box and forced Baltimore to beat them deep as they are one of the worst down the field passing teams in the league.

 

And if they crushed you deep? Then you can adjust a bit

 

I just think the bills had it backwards and the ravens OC was a step ahead of them all game because of that 

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They're not solvable because McDermott will do it over and over again till the end of time. 8% heavy boxes just validates McDermott's idiotic stubborness  to make any intelligent early adjustments.  King Henry had to be licking his chops.  This is why elite teams in the playoffs own Mc13. This is why Andy fired him.  I've seen this movie before...Rosebud.

If he gets out coached again this year in the playoffs…. People are going to be calling for his head. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think the bills had the wrong mindset going in though.

 

Whats the best thing Baltimore does? Clearly running the ball.

 

Whats the number one golden rule from Belichick, one of the best coaches of all time?

 

Take away what the other team does best.

 

I think the bills should have stacked the box and forced Baltimore to beat them deep as they are one of the worst down the field passing teams in the league.

 

And if they crushed you deep? Then you can adjust a bit

 

I just think the bills had it backwards and the ravens OC was a step ahead of them all game because of that 

 

The thing is the choice was never give them the run or the deep ball. It was give them the middle or give them the edges. When the Bills tried to play with a heavier box on drives 2 and 3 the Ravens just went to the swing passes and flares to the backs outta the backfield and attacked the edges of our defense and because the second level players are all backups they had the advantage there. In drives 2 and 3 they successfully bottled Henry up as a rusher. Maybe they should have started the game that way for the one play they didn't but even if they had it wasn't a sustainable way to play defense against them either. Because the Ravens immediately had a counter to that and marched down the field with seven passes to running backs (five to Hill, two to Henry) including two touchdown passes. 

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is the choice was never give them the run or the deep ball. It was give them the middle or give them the edges. When the Bills tried to play with a heavier box on drives 2 and 3 the Ravens just went to the swing passes and flares to the backs outta the backfield and attacked the edges of our defense and because the second level players are all backups they had the advantage there. In drives 2 and 3 they successfully bottled Henry up as a rusher. Maybe they should have started the game that way for the one play they didn't but even if they had it wasn't a sustainable way to play defense against them either. Because the Ravens immediately had a counter to that and marched down the field with seven passes to running backs (five to Hill, two to Henry) including two touchdown passes. 

I hear you and those are fair points. Bills were overmatched cause the injuries im

Not denying that .

 

You referenced the bills and heavy boxes though. 
 

If I am not mistaken, they only ran heavy boxes 8 percent of the time and I think Baltimore had around 55 plays?

 

So that's like 4-5 plays you run heavy boxes- combined with a few goal line situations where you have to go heavy.

So how many times did they actually run heavy boxes in open field, like 2-3 plays?

Edited October 2 by BillsFan130

[uticaclub]

26 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

If he gets out coached again this year in the playoffs…. People are going to be calling for his head. 

There are people are calling for his head now and there are people who will always be satisfied just beating the Dolphins and making the playoffs.

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

There are people are calling for his head now and there are people who will always be satisfied just beating the Dolphins and making the playoffs.

My biggest issues is those that are calling for his head rarely come up with a viable replacement. Change for change sakes doesn't necessary mean things will improve. I mean off the top of my head I really can't think of a HC candidate out there that would make us a better team right now. 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I hear you and those are fair points. Bills were overmatched cause the injuries im

Not denying that .

 

You referenced the bills and heavy boxes though. 
 

If I am not mistaken, they only ran heavy boxes 8 percent of the time and I think Baltimore had around 55 plays?

 

So that's like 4-5 plays you run heavy boxes- combined with a few goal line situations where you have to go heavy.

So how many times did they actually run heavy boxes in open field, like 2-3 plays?

 

I haven't been back and looked through yet, but my guess is that it was largely that 2nd and 3rd drive. That was when they were in 43 base. They went back to nickel after that but just changed the way the linebackers were playing. 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't been back and looked through yet, but my guess is that it was largely that 2nd and 3rd drive. That was when they were in 43 base. They went back to nickel after that but just changed the way the linebackers were playing. 

You're probably right in terms of they went to more neutral boxes. (As they most likely started with 6 in the box)

But I think it was very rare they played with heavy boxes outside of a few plays, which I find extremely puzzling

[LABILLBACKER]

41 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

If he gets out coached again this year in the playoffs…. People are going to be calling for his head. 

How many "agains" are necessary.  This is getting ridiculous.  How many passes does he get?  He's the Teflon man.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

You're probably right in terms of they went to more neutral boxes. (As they most likely started with 6 in the box)

But I think it was very rare they played with heavy boxes outside of a few plays, which I find extremely puzzling

 

Yea you are entitled to take a different philosophical view from them on how they approached it defensively. Personally I'd have run my normal defense, trusted that I wasn't going to be beaten in every assignment the way I was on the first play from scrimmage all day long and give my defense a chance to settle in. The changes they made were through panic and made the Ravens job easier IMO. 

[balln]

52 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think the bills had the wrong mindset going in though.

 

Whats the best thing Baltimore does? Clearly running the ball.

 

Whats the number one golden rule from Belichick, one of the best coaches of all time?

 

Take away what the other team does best.

 

I think the bills should have stacked the box and forced Baltimore to beat them deep as they are one of the worst down the field passing teams in the league.

 

And if they crushed you deep? Then you can adjust a bit

 

I just think the bills had it backwards and the ravens OC was a step ahead of them all game because of that 

 

 

That’s my overall point w why McD is the wrong coach. Our philosophy should be like chiefs. When you have an all world qb. You want to maximize the amount of possessions to score points. Bc you know. Points wins games.  In order to do that. Run an aggressive D. Tight man, zone if you want - but sell out and take their best thing away and if you get beat you get beat on a quick score. It’s fine bc then your all world qb gets another drive. 
 

What I think. Is McD feels that he wants to limit Josh Allen turnovers. I almost guarantee he does. And so this our new small ball/ possession offense. But then he punts on 4 and 1 when we average 3 yards per play. Make it make sense SEAN

12 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

My biggest issues is those that are calling for his head rarely come up with a viable replacement. Change for change sakes doesn't necessary mean things will improve. I mean off the top of my head I really can't think of a HC candidate out there that would make us a better team right now. 

You go and get Ben Johnson or you get slovik from Houston. Young mind OC. It’s just that simple. All those guys will salivate to have Josh Allen

[GerstAusGosheim]

23 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

He is 100% spot on, this loss is 100% on coaching.

Maybe the rookie DC is in over his head just like rookie OC Sean trusted at the height of the Josh/Diggs era.