Are our DB's slow?

[Not at the table Karlos]

Douglas looked like he wanted no part of Henry.  

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

[Buffalo_Stampede]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Where did you read that? Highest I calculated him at was 20.45mph.

 

They must be taking a split second of instant velocity that rapidly diminished. It’s like capturing a tiny moment of time where he reaches that but doesn’t maintain it at all.

 

His average velocity was 17mph, and his sustained high was around 18.

Henry was flying to be fair.

 

 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Henry was flying to be fair.

 

 

 

Ok thats (21.29) much closer to my calculation. Someone else said 22-something which isn’t right.

 

But Chase Daniel is wrong in his interpretation. This is instantaneous velocity. Not speed. Worthy didn’t run slower - he just never reached an instantaneous velocity as high as Henry. 

This whole country needs to take a physics class because everyone always gets this wrong.

 

His velocity over the entire run was in the 17.2(ish) range.

 

Taking a split second velocity is not indicative of his speed on the run. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Einstein

[zow2]

They looked like Poyer and Hyde trying to chase down Tyreek Hill,  which we all know was futile.

 

But Henry is like a thoroughbred race horse.  He gets a full head of steam down the stretch and he's unbelievably fast for a bigger and older RB.

[nedboy7]

I’d fire someone.  Maybe even someone from this board.  Accountability. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Benford won the race by the way. Benford had to hit 21 mph also. He was gaining.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Buffalo_Stampede

[Mango]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

i posted this last night.  10 years ago, Henry was a 4.5-4.6 40 man.  Hamlin had an angle and couldn't catch him for 50 yards running right behind him.  

 

Hamlin is MLB slow.

 Crazy enough Ingram was the one catching up and his 40 time is 4.6.
 

Crazy enough, Cam Lewis who ran a 4.5 at his pro day couldn’t catch him and was being chased down by his bigger and “slower” teammate Ja’Marcus Ingram (4.65). I’m just not a fan of Cam Lewis. Great story. Go UB Bulls! A nice utility knife to have in the tool box. But I don’t like him starting…like at all.

Edited 2 hours ago by Mango

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Benford won the race by the way. Benford had to hit 21 mph also. He was gaining.

 

 

Wasn’t there a play later in the game too, where Douglas caught Henry before he got into the end zone?  Douglas was clearly faster than most around him on the play.

[Mango]

Our current starting DBs:

 

Hamlin: 4.59

Rapp: 4.74

Benford: 4.46

Douglas: 4.59

Lewis: 4.51

Not super slow. But it seems some have slow game speed. 

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Benford won the race by the way. Benford had to hit 21 mph also. He was gaining.

 

No! That is not how this works. You don’t have to match an instantaneous velocity to beat someone in a race. And he certainly didn’t. He never gained on him - he actually lost ground. The dots have very little precision. 

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ok thats (21.29) much closer to my calculation. Someone else said 22-something which isn’t right.

 

But Chase Daniel is wrong in his interpretation. This is instantaneous velocity. Not speed. Worthy didn’t run slower - he just never reached an instantaneous velocity as high as Henry. 

This whole country needs to take a physics class because everyone always gets this wrong.

 

His velocity over the entire run was in the 17.2(ish) range.

 

Taking a split second velocity is not indicative of his speed on the run. 

I think your calculations are off. He wasn't just running vertically. He was also running at an angle toward the sideline.

 

And you don't reach top speed with "instantaneous velocity". All the fastest MPH runs in the NFL are the long ones, because it takes many seconds to get up to your top speed.

[Bleed Bills Blue]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Hamlin is MLB slow.

Well, I see Hamlin and Bernard share the exact same 40 time, though I wonder what Hamlin is currently running, post mortem? I mean, it's nothing we didn't already know, but that pick return really highlighted it.  It was shocking to see how slowly he ran when the camera was focused on him in that moment.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Douglas looks faster than Henry here:

 

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/pMkQCC3936s

 

 

[Einstein]

43 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think your calculations are off. He wasn't just running vertically. He was also running at an angle toward the sideline.

 

And you don't reach top speed with "instantaneous velocity". All the fastest MPH runs in the NFL are the long ones, because it takes many seconds to get up to your top speed.

 

With kindness - you don’t know what you are writing. A layman arguing physics with a physics person is often a disaster because the layman doesn’t know that they are wrong but are so often confident that they are right.

 

By vertical, I think you mean he wasn’t running perfectly parallel to the sideline from the start of the calculation to the end. I’m aware of that, and it’s factored into the calculation. His angle (theta) is accounted for by breaking down his velocity into x (parallel to the sideline) and y (downfield) vector components.

 

As for the comment about top speed and instantaneous velocity - it’s clear you don’t know what instantaneous velocity is. It is NOT the players velocity at the start of a run lol. It also has nothing to do with the time it takes to reach max velocity. It can be measured at any point the player reaches peak. Start, middle, or end. It’s true that a player may take time to reach their top speed, especially in longer runs, but the highest velocity at any point *is* their top instantaneous velocity. 

 

Put simply - you are not using it correctly.

 

Take 2 cars: The red car has a top instantaneous velocity of 250mph. The blue car has a top instantaneous velocity of 125mph. The IV is calculated at 0.345 seconds. The red car has an average velocity over 100m of 120mph. The blue car has an average velocity over 100m on 125mph. Who wins the race?

 

The blue car wins, even though the red car has double the top instantaneous velocity.

 

When posting stats like “X player had Y mph!”, people don’t realize what they’re saying. It has nothing to do with overall speed. It’s instantaneous velocity  at a fraction of a second. They could easily still lose that race because it does not mean overall speed.

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Einstein

[boyst]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I was also interested in this and ran the math on it yesterday.

 

He accelerated considerably throughout the run. Once he passed his own 30 yard line, the it took 8.42 seconds for him to reach the endzone. That is 8.31 yards per second. Extrapolated over 40 yards, and he ran the equivalent of a 4.8 40 yard dash.

You would think one DB would catch him.

 

If Henry has a 2-yard lead and is running a 4.81 40-yard dash, while a defensive back  runs a 4.5, we can determine how long it will take for the DB to catch up by calculating relative speed. Henry’s speed is about 8.32 yards per second, given that he covers 40 yards in 4.81 seconds. The DB, running a 4.5-second 40, is moving at 8.89 yards per second. 

 

One our DB’s, if they can run a 4.5, should have gained on Henry at a relative net speed of 0.57 yards per second. With Henry’s 2-yard lead, it should take a DB about 3.51 seconds to close the 2-yard gap and catch up to Henry.

 

But they didn’t.

 

Over those first 30 yards (past the 30), he was moving at 10 yards per second and covered his acceleration over the last 40 with the sum of the 70 total was nearly 0.57 yards per second squared.

That's the difference between football speed and track speed. So many of these guys are track speedsters that in pads can't sustain. It's like taking a Corvette on the highway in rain. It doesn't do it's best but an 04 grand Cherokee will be more than fast enough. 

 

Football speed is not just speed. It's power. 

[Einstein]

Just now, boyst said:

That's the difference between football speed and track speed. So many of these guys are track speedsters that in pads can't sustain. It's like taking a Corvette on the highway in rain. It doesn't do it's best but an 04 grand Cherokee will be more than fast enough. 

 

Football speed is not just speed. It's power. 

 

Very true.

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

With kindness - you don’t know what you are writing. A layman arguing physics with a physics person is often a disaster because the layman doesn’t know that they are wrong but are so often confident that they are right.

 

By vertical, I think you mean he wasn’t running perfectly parallel to the sideline from the start of the calculation to the end. I’m aware of that, and it’s factored into the calculation. His angle (theta) is accounted for by breaking down his velocity into x (parallel to the sideline) and y (downfield) vector components.

 

As for the comment about top speed and instantaneous velocity—top speed *is* your top instantaneous velocity. It’s true that a player may take time to reach their top speed, especially in longer runs, but the highest velocity at any point *is* their instantaneous velocity. 

 

Put simply - you are not using it correctly.

 

Take 2 cars: The red car has a top instantaneous velocity of 250mph. The blue car has a top instantaneous velocity of 125mph. The IV is calculated at 0.345 seconds. The red car has an average velocity over 100m of 120mph. The blue car has an average velocity over 100m on 125mph. Who wins the race?

 

The blue car wins, even though the red car has double the top instantaneous velocity.

 

When posting stats like “X player had Y mph!”, people don’t realize what they’re saying. It has nothing to do with overall speed. It’s instantaneous velocity  at a fraction of a second. They could easily still lose that race because it does not mean speed.

 

Your appeal to authority doesn't really sway me. I don't know you or what you do. I trust the numbers put out by the experts, not a random guy on a message board. Henry was running very fast. It's a fact. His top speed was 21.3 MPH. Your calculations are obviously off because you had him slower than that.

 

The narrative that all the DBs are really slow is not true. That was one of the fastest runs all year, and Henry has a history of fast runs when he is allowed to accelerate up to top speed. So, this thread is easily debunked by the actual numbers.

[colin]

slow and bad at the nfl level.

 

this is a big issue w the mcd scheme.  he needs some special profile of people to fill it, who evidently are not fast or strong, and he doesn't seem to like to adjust his gameplan for an opponent.

 

setting up your guys to fail is not good coaching.  maybe our roster w injuries was never gonna be good against the bmore O, but the plan coming into sunday night was doomed from the start.

[ALLinALLEN]

Hamlin and Rapp are SLOW as hell. They have no closing speed and can't run anyone down. Not great for your starting Safeties. Hopefully Bishop can start and add some to the group.