Are our DB's slow?

[MAJBobby]

I would be willing to give up a 3rd for Jevon Holland from Phins, they are likely going into sale mode, he is on final year of Rookie Deal.

 

Bring him over, replaces Hamlin.  Bishop and Holland would be a safety combination I am fine with for the rest of the season.  

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 I trust the numbers put out by the experts, not a random guy on a message board.

 

The numbers the experts gave you are perfectly fine - they match my numbers (outside of a rounding artifact due to yardage).  You incorrectly stated 22.5 at first, which is why I said my numbers were off. Once someone corrected your number, I saw that my numbers matched.

 

In other words - the numbers are fine. The problem is your understanding of the numbers. You are misinterpreting what the experts are telling you, which is causing an issue. 

 

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Henry was running very fast. It's a fact. His top speed was 21.3 MPH.

 

Correct! His top speed over a fraction of a second was 21.3. His average speed was 17-something (I don’t have my calculations on me at the moment to give you the decimal). This becomes instantaneous velocity and average velocity (respectively), once we add direction.

 

Now let’s see if you learned anything - what is more important? The 21.3 or the 17? Which matters more in determining how fast a player is running throughout a full ‘race’?

 

Remember: Top instantaneous velocity is NOT how fast you are going over the course of a run. It is how fast you were going for 0.0001% of that run.

 

 

Edited October 1 by Einstein

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Douglas looked like he wanted no part of Henry.  

Can’t blame him. I don’t want to lose Douglas. 

[MJS]

56 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The numbers the experts gave you are perfectly fine - they match my numbers (outside of a rounding artifact due to yardage).  You incorrectly stated 22.5 at first, which is why I said my numbers were off. Once someone corrected your number, I saw that my numbers matched.

 

In other words - the numbers are fine. The problem is your understanding of the numbers. You are misinterpreting what the experts are telling you, which is causing an issue. 

 

 

Correct! His top speed over a fraction of a second was 21.3. His average speed was 17-something (I don’t have my calculations on me at the moment to give you the decimal). This becomes instantaneous velocity and average velocity (respectively), once we add direction.

 

Now let’s see if you learned anything - what is more important? The 21.3 or the 17? Which matters more in determining how fast a player is running throughout a full ‘race’?

 

Remember: Top instantaneous velocity is NOT how fast you are going over the course of a run. It is how fast you were going for 0.0001% of that run.

Incorrect. I never said he was going 22.5 mph. My original post stated that he was going nearly 22 mph, which was my memory from the broadcast. Maybe some other poster mentioned 22.5. I'm not sure.

 

Sorry, I don't trust your numbers. You calculated his top speed wrong. So the 17 mph number you keep mentioning is likely also wrong, and also irrelevant. Of course he wasn't traveling at top speed for the entire run. He spent time at anywhere between 0 and 21.3 mph throughout the run. Players take time to accelerate and decelerate. Everyone understands that.

 

The question is whether or not our defensive backs are slow, because of an assumption that Henry must be slow because he is a large back. Well, he isn't slow. He is fast. He has a history of long runs where his top speeds are very fast. He is a powerful runner who can be quite fast when he is allowed room to accelerate. The fact that our defensive backs did not catch him does not mean they are slow necessarily. They could be slow, but this run is not evidence of that.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The linebackers we had out there on Sunday aren't even that fast. It wasn't about size and/or speed - it was about ability. 

 

As for are our DBs slow - Hamlin ended up as the one in pursuit and yes he is slow.

Hamlin has no business being a starting FS in the NFL.

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Benford won the race by the way. Benford had to hit 21 mph also. He was gaining.

 

 

 

What is Rasoul doing in this play? Did he just make a business decision? He wasn't even blocked and Henry runs right past him. 

 

Meanwhile Benford's playing corner on the opposite side of the field, is by far the furthest from Henry and is the only one that makes up ground, but unfortunately doesn't catch up until the end zone. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

What is Rasoul doing in this play? Did he just make a business decision? He wasn't even blocked and Henry runs right past him. 

 

Meanwhile Benford's playing corner on the opposite side of the field, is by far the furthest from Henry and is the only one that makes up ground, but unfortunately doesn't catch up until the end zone. 

Rapp and Douglas. I think Rapp filled wrong. Douglas could’ve slowed down Henry. I don’t know if that hole was his responsibility. I don’t know if you remember Breece Hall breaking a similar run. Tre White has to make that tackle, I’m not sure this is the same.

 

I also feel like Dorian Williams filled wrong as well. It’s difficult to know because Ed Oliver got fooled and taken out.

Edited October 1 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

What is Rasoul doing in this play? Did he just make a business decision? He wasn't even blocked and Henry runs right past him. 

 

Meanwhile Benford's playing corner on the opposite side of the field, is by far the furthest from Henry and is the only one that makes up ground, but unfortunately doesn't catch up until the end zone. 

He appears to have the outside gap.  As 89 moves up to block rapp, he maintains his outside gap before trying to creep inside for cleanup.  He was late, but no one got a hand on henry so he has a full head of steam while he's working his way back. Rousseau also was setting the edge on that side.  

 

They trapped oliver up field with Ricard (play tendency that is often used against penetrating DTs), Williams tries to shoot the A gap and gets trapped by the center, Jones doesn't get enough of the LG, and gets pinned by the RG, and spector is too slow to react and ends up late as well.  

Edited October 1 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hamlin has no business being a starting FS in the NFL.

 

Don't need to persuade me. I didn't want him on the roster. I accepted the injuries meant he probably had to be to start the year but coming out of FA and the draft he was on my cut list.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

He appears to have the outside gap.  As 89 moves up to block rapp, he maintains his outside gap before trying to creep inside for cleanup.  He was late, but no one got a hand on henry so he has a full head of steam while he's working his way back. Rousseau also was setting the edge on that side.  

 

They trapped oliver up field with Ricard (play tendency that is often used against penetrating DTs), Williams tries to shoot the A gap and gets trapped by the center, Jones doesn't get enough of the LG, and gets pinned by the RG, and spector is too slow to react and ends up late as well.  

Yeah Douglas is there if Henry bounces outside. He’s expecting someone to fill that gap, I believe it’s Rapp.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

I would be willing to give up a 3rd for Jevon Holland from Phins, they are likely going into sale mode, he is on final year of Rookie Deal.

 

Bring him over, replaces Hamlin.  Bishop and Holland would be a safety combination I am fine with for the rest of the season.  

 

I'd give a 4th. 3rd feels a bit rich for a safety who you then immediately (as in right after the season) need to pay. He is someone I thought about earlier though. Would they trade him in division?

Edited October 1 by GunnerBill

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Lewis, Hamlin, Benford, Rapp, Ingram, and Douglas are all 4.5-4.6+ guys. 
 

The only DB we have that is an explosive athlete is Bishop. 

[JerseyBills]

Henry reached 21 22 mph, his highest speed since 2018

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I would be willing to give up a 3rd for Jevon Holland from Phins, they are likely going into sale mode, he is on final year of Rookie Deal.

 

Bring him over, replaces Hamlin.  Bishop and Holland would be a safety combination I am fine with for the rest of the season.  

Then we must give an extension, not sure I love that. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

4 hours ago, ScotSHO said:

 

Hamlin is surprisingly slow - on his lone interception he had a ton of field to work with as he "ran" to his right.  I figured he'd get down to the 20 yard line or so, but he ran sideways and fell down at the feet of a JAX receiver? lineman?  It was embarrassing.  The ghost of Primetime's toes was disappointed.  

 

But we are stuck with him now because of the feel good story.  There is a special before every national night name - barf.  It'll take all of this year before they quietly yank him in the offseason - if Seany can even bring himself to do that.

Such a lazy take. The NFL is hyper competitive. He's in there right now because they believe he's the best they have for the position. I agree he's a weak starter, but they don't have anyone better.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

This is a hateful take. 🤨

If you don't know their wonderlic scores, pipe down. 😡

[strive_for_five_guy]

Another factor not discussed here yet is the field condition.  Players are able to run faster on artificial turf versus grass to begin with.  And then if the ground is soft and/or wet, that also has the potential to impact everyone’s speed as well.  So whatever top speed Henry got up to was likely subdued in some respect, versus if these guys were running on a more pristine surface.

 

That said, if one watches the replay, it does seem that Henry is faster than Hamlin and Lewis, even after those two guys have had the chance to get to their top speed.  Benford was gaining on Henry, but got a late jump and had to go across the field.

 

Later in the game on Henry’s 38 yard run, Douglas also chased Henry down.

 

So, my conclusion is that Benford and Douglas are faster than Henry, but doesn’t seem to be the case with Hamlin and Lewis.  Whether that means any of these guys are slow depends on what we think about Henry’s speed too, but it’s not like this is the first time he’s ever broken a long run.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

23 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Henry reached 21 22 mph, his highest speed since 2018

Then we must give an extension, not sure I love that. 

 

At least he's good at football?  

[RyanC883]

bad angles and slower guys.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

bad angles and slower guys.  

 

I don't know that there was an angle there for hamlin.  He's headed sideways as henry is getting speed going straight up.  The key isn't tackling him 40 yards down field, its slowing him down before he gets there. 

 

To me that is a trio of misses by rapp, williams, and spector.  The play design takes out oliver, but 3 on 3 and not one of those guys got a hand on him.  

[Einstein]

25 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I don't know that there was an angle there for hamlin.  He's headed sideways as henry is getting speed going straight up.  The key isn't tackling him 40 yards down field, its slowing him down before he gets there. 

 

To me that is a trio of misses by rapp, williams, and spector.  The play design takes out oliver, but 3 on 3 and not one of those guys got a hand on him.  

 

Hamlin has been doing this day 1