What’s up with the bills usage of Kincaid?

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He definitely was. No one else was around.

One play, or entire game?

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

One play, or entire game?

 

Not entire game, but often enough.

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not entire game, but often enough.

I don’t have all-22, so I will not argue further except to say, what does “often enough” mean?

[Meatloaf63]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

Opposing defenses are thus far mostly concentrating their efforts on stopping Kincaid and Shakir, and are content to give up outside stuff and force the Bills' other receivers to beat them.

In the most recent game, in particular, the Ravens mostly put Kyle Hamilton on Kincaid and Marlon Humphrey on Shakir, and said "we dare you to beat us with other guys", and the Bills couldn't.

Unless and until the Bills start getting some more meaningful production from their outside WRs, defenses will continue to sell out to clog the middle of the field.

This is where a genuine outside threat would be useful. This is why I wanted Brian Thomas or Xavier Worthy (or Troy Franklin, who has been a zero so far, and I'm an idiot): To force defenses to respect them deep and to open things up over the middle. Maybe Coleman becomes the guy. Maybe Samuel gets healthy and becomes the guy. Maybe the trade for someone. They need to be able to do SOMETHING outside, or Kincaid and Shakir will increasingly be blanked. 

They couldn’t because the oline severely underperformed, and Brady had no answers for the pressure.

[Freak-O]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I mean how hard can it be? Any low level internet could go watch film of Kelce, Gronk, Kittle,  and a host of other great TEs and design 10-15 plays that exploit the defense.

 

This board was happy to see Diggs gone thinking this would open up opportunities for others.  Just the opposite so far. Maybe just maybe Diggs did draw extra attention late last year opening up opportunities for Shakir and Kincaid to make plays. 

Or maybe the sample size is too small to draw any conclusions after just four games? 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

The usage of Kincaid and questions stemming about the offense all boil down to the fact that we’ve built a roster of guys who don’t excel at a single, unified skill. We’ve brought in players that have abilities to do different things well. It’s created a lack of identity and nothing we can really lean into when the chips are all on the table. What exactly are we trying to do here? 

 

I am a big fan of Beane. I also question what their plan for this offense was going back two seasons when they signed Knox and drafted Kincaid. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BananaB]

16 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

The usage of Kincaid and questions stemming about the offense all boil down to the fact that we’ve built a roster of guys who don’t excel at a single, unified skill. We’ve brought in players that have abilities to do different things well. It’s created a lack of identity and nothing we can really lean into when the chips are all on the table. What exactly are we trying to do here? 

 

I am a big fan of Beane. I also question what their plan for this offense was going back two seasons when they signed Knox and drafted Kincaid. 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s confusing. They talk about guys who can do multiple things but limit the guys who are good at what they need and give extra work to the guys are struggle at what they need. 

[Kmart128]

It seems like they gameplan to get him the ball early in games. And they do a good jobs of getting him involved but at some point he just disappears and we stop looking his direction.

[BananaB]

21 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

It seems like they gameplan to get him the ball early in games. And they do a good jobs of getting him involved but at some point he just disappears and we stop looking his direction.

Seems forced to me like Diggs last year. Bunch of screens and easy catches then not much after. Another head scratcher. Never really leads to anything 

Edited October 2 by BananaB

[DrDawkinstein]

28 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

It seems like they gameplan to get him the ball early in games. And they do a good jobs of getting him involved but at some point he just disappears and we stop looking his direction.

 

Again, is this a case where we get him involved early, so then teams adjust and cover/double cover/triple cover, and take him away?

[boyst]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Again, is this a case where we get him involved early, so then teams adjust and cover/double cover/triple cover, and take him away?

kincaid isn't beating man coverage and that is an issue. they're zone covering him sufficiently and we don't have other options in the middle because by the time Shakir gets in the mix there are 3 or 4 guys there.

 

its because no one respects our boundary wr's and we don't have a deeper threat. even davis was a deep threat that took resources - sometimes two. a cover corner and the deep safety had to be aware where he was at all times. we aren't using samuel for that for some reason

[Not at the table Karlos]

20 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

It may have been misleading(other receivers in the area??) as there is no way Kincaid is being triple teamed.  Absolutely no way. 

Iirc it was 4 defenders possibly 5.

 

edit. Didn’t see the video above. 

Edited October 2 by Not at the table Karlos

[reddogblitz]

Dalton needs to catch the football when it hits him in the hands.

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, boyst said:

kincaid isn't beating man coverage and that is an issue. they're zone covering him sufficiently and we don't have other options in the middle because by the time Shakir gets in the mix there are 3 or 4 guys there.

 

its because no one respects our boundary wr's and we don't have a deeper threat. even davis was a deep threat that took resources - sometimes two. a cover corner and the deep safety had to be aware where he was at all times. we aren't using samuel for that for some reason

Have you seen this to be the case watching the all-22?  If not, have you watched any videos illustrating this to be true?  are teams (other than the jags playing a good amount of man vs us?  I didn’t think that was the case.  
 

I’m not doubting you, just wondering if this is a fact based on visuals, because I’d like to see it.  I haven’t purchased the all-22 yet this season so I’d like to hear from those who have.  
 

I’ve watched a couple of clips that showed him getting some separation and a handful where he beat his man only to be doubled

 

 

[Mikie2times]

What was pointed out in a similar thread is just how much he is competing underneath with the WR’s. 
 

Looking at last year Allen connected with his only seam pass to an TE in the Pittsburgh playoff game. The deep to intermediate middle is not an area you see Josh throw a lot of passes to. So you would hope he could eat more in that area but I don’t see it happening and nobody is clearing out to open up the shorter stuff. Bad roster building to be honest. He should be mostly a Big slot but we have 40 slot WR’s already. Love Keon, but this is where passing in Worthy sort of hurts. Worthy never would have been a WR1 or likely even 2, but we need a field stretcher. 

[White Linen]

On 10/1/2024 at 12:08 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

This organization has got to identify future allocation better and stop with the ridiculous extensions. We extended Knox then rarely use him. We extend Bass after a mediocre season. We sign guys like Hines, Harty & Samuel only to completely ignore them.  Do they like wasting money or this this just a systematic failure in player usage?

 

I don't have an issue with the allocation because I think Beane has done a good job.  This is not a bash on McD but it's what you get with a defensive head coach.  McD uses allocation on defense well and no name corners, safeties and to some extent LB's contribute.  

 

It doesn't happen on offense.

 

This is why turning the offense over to inexperience, is a problem.  My opinion.

 

We're a good team but we stop short of being great and it almost always looks like coaching to me.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

 

We're a good team but we stop short of being great and it almost always looks like coaching to me.

 

Whereas to me it almost always looks like a lack of top end talent beyond Josh. 

[boyst]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Have you seen this to be the case watching the all-22?  If not, have you watched any videos illustrating this to be true?  are teams (other than the jags playing a good amount of man vs us?  I didn’t think that was the case.  
 

I’m not doubting you, just wondering if this is a fact based on visuals, because I’d like to see it.  I haven’t purchased the all-22 yet this season so I’d like to hear from those who have.  
 

I’ve watched a couple of clips that showed him getting some separation and a handful where he beat his man only to be doubled

 

 

not watched the visuals or all 22. too cheap but anytime i saw him against the ravens and earlier in the year when facing man coverage he didn't distinguish himself to get into a catching solution. also, i think it is fair that josh is not throwing the ball into these windows like he has before.

 

shakir is the only one he is putting the ball into certain windows with.

 

what struck me was that kincaid is running routes that are predictable and don't seem as original as they could be - maybe it's all my interpretation. 

 

right now we need a big bodied TE who can sit down in a flat like keith mckellar would - knox

we need a solid number 1 who can beat the defender with position and get the contested catch - a TO type who can fight for the ball and maybe coleman will get there

we need an underneath guy who can run inside our outside and take the hits and make the catch - beasley - and shakir maybe better than him

we need a man who can get open and shake coverage and play backyard ball - Stevie johnson.  it should be curtis samuel

we need a rb who can run a wheel route and break through or leak out to catch a big gain when josh scrambles - thurman but now james cook

 

if we get those three solutions above we can use dalton kincaid to split a seam, and be a big swiss army knife

 

it's early. caffiene kicking in.  but gosh i wish we would have pursued derrick henry. it'd have been huge to just punish the light boxes and 2 high safeties we face with josh.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Our base offense should be similar to the one the Patriots ran with Gronk and Hernandez. I could see if Kincaid was dropping passes, fumbling or not getting open but that is not the case. He is an offensive weapon that is not being utilized. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I don't have an issue with the allocation because I think Beane has done a good job.  This is not a bash on McD but it's what you get with a defensive head coach.  McD uses allocation on defense well and no name corners, safeties and to some extent LB's contribute.  

 

It doesn't happen on offense.

 

This is why turning the offense over to inexperience, is a problem.  My opinion.

 

We're a good team but we stop short of being great and it almost always looks like coaching to me.

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Whereas to me it almost always looks like a lack of top end talent beyond Josh.