Ed Oliver - MIA

[colin]

19 hours ago, Savage said:

Rousseau is just a notch above a JAG.

 

now where near to being a difference maker.

 

an average, to slightly above average player.

 

 

no where near elite.

 

not even close.

 

but a decent player.

 

 

nah, that's just not so.

 

he has disappeared a couple times when i wish he didn't, but so do 99% of nfl D linemen.  he's a legit top 10-15 DE in the nfl, it's just that he's not a great pass rusher, but is great vs the run, contains and sees screens and such really well, is good at pressure, and makes big splash plays pretty often.

 

if he had like maxx crosby moves and was flirting w 20 sacks, he'd be a hall of fame talent. 

[Savage]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Leads the league in TFL, 4th in QB hits, 10th in pressures and top 20 in sacks.  Thinking that is just a notch above JAG is madness.

But how often does he really make a difference in a game?

2 hours ago, colin said:

 

nah, that's just not so.

 

he has disappeared a couple times when i wish he didn't, but so do 99% of nfl D linemen.  he's a legit top 10-15 DE in the nfl, it's just that he's not a great pass rusher, but is great vs the run, contains and sees screens and such really well, is good at pressure, and makes big splash plays pretty often.

 

if he had like maxx crosby moves and was flirting w 20 sacks, he'd be a hall of fame talent. 

He has the body and length, but I’m just not sure he can

step it up a notch or two.

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, Savage said:

But how often does he really make a difference in a game?

 

Dude, people are game-planning around that combination of length and strength.

He affects multiple aspects of every opposing offense on every series.

[Savage]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Dude, people are game-planning around that combination of length and strength.

He affects every aspect of opposing offenses on every series.

I’ll take your word for it.

 

[Savage]

1 hour ago, Savage said:

But how often does he really make a difference in a game?

He has the body and length, but I’m just not sure he can

step it up a notch or two.

 

1 hour ago, Savage said:

But how often does he really make a difference in a game?

He has the body and length, but I’m just not sure he can

step it up a notch or two.

Is top 20 in sacks an actual thing?

 

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, colin said:

 

nah, that's just not so.

 

he has disappeared a couple times when i wish he didn't, but so do 99% of nfl D linemen.  he's a legit top 10-15 DE in the nfl, it's just that he's not a great pass rusher, but is great vs the run, contains and sees screens and such really well, is good at pressure, and makes big splash plays pretty often.

 

if he had like maxx crosby moves and was flirting w 20 sacks, he'd be a hall of fame talent. 

Ya great points,  dude is very underrated, hopefully that helps with his extension, he's an all around  ery good DE 

[Malazan]

There's a couple guys I'm hoping are saving it for the post-season. Oliver is one of them.

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, Malazan said:

There's a couple guys I'm hoping are saving it for the post-season. Oliver is one of them.

 

Yeah, I'm wondering if he's sick of being hurt in January and is half-stepping right now to stay healthy.

That combined with not having any help beside him could be all it takes to have him struggling.

[Process]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, I'm wondering if he's sick of being hurt in January and is half-stepping right now to stay healthy.

That combined with not having any help beside him could be all it takes to have him struggling.

Does Ed have a history of being hurt in the playoffs? He's one guy who has been relatively healthy come playoff time, no? I definitely could be misremembering. 

 

I think Ed just needs a dominant 1T next to him and Jones isn't that guy any more. Ed is not an elite player who can wreck things by himself, but he's also not getting paid like one. Finding an upgrade to Jones is a must in the offseason. 

[GreggTX]

I WISH Ed Oliver was playing as well as Groot. Who says Rousseau isn't not playing well? Are you kidding?

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Process said:

Does Ed have a history of being hurt in the playoffs? He's one guy who has been relatively healthy come playoff time, no? I definitely could be misremembering. 

 

I think Ed just needs a dominant 1T next to him and Jones isn't that guy any more. Ed is not an elite player who can wreck things by himself, but he's also not getting paid like one. Finding an upgrade to Jones is a must in the offseason. 

 

He was playing hurt in the Bengal game two years ago. From memory I think he was healthy last year. 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

10 hours ago, Process said:

Does Ed have a history of being hurt in the playoffs? He's one guy who has been relatively healthy come playoff time, no? I definitely could be misremembering. 

 

I think Ed just needs a dominant 1T next to him and Jones isn't that guy any more. Ed is not an elite player who can wreck things by himself, but he's also not getting paid like one. Finding an upgrade to Jones is a must in the offseason. 

A strong 1T seems to be very important to a McD defense and they always seem to be out at the wrong time or just over the hill. When the 1T plays well it unlocks so much else (3T, DEs, LBs). Hope we can find a good long term solution. I loved DaQuan in '22 but he was injured for the Bengals game then he was playing out of his mind in '23 up to London and just hasn't been the same since that injury. Now he appears to have lost it which is unfortunate. Ed and the rest of the pass rush seem to be suffering for it.

 

Anyone know if there are any promising 1Ts in the upcoming draft I should keep an eye on?

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, MiracleAtRich1393 said:

A strong 1T seems to be very important to a McD defense and they always seem to be out at the wrong time or just over the hill. When the 1T plays well it unlocks so much else (3T, DEs, LBs). Hope we can find a good long term solution. I loved DaQuan in '22 but he was injured for the Bengals game then he was playing out of his mind in '23 up to London and just hasn't been the same since that injury. Now he appears to have lost it which is unfortunate. Ed and the rest of the pass rush seem to be suffering for it.

 

Anyone know if there are any promising 1Ts in the upcoming draft I should keep an eye on?

Yet it's a position they continue to neglect over and over again in the draft every year which is mind boggling to me.  I was jealous watching the Philly game last night

[NewEra]

On 11/13/2024 at 10:58 AM, notpolian said:

I don't watch all-22 or conventional coverage close enough to say either way if he is that good against the run.  Do other teams always run away from him?  Does he get double teamed?  

 

BTW, does anyone keep on/off or +/- statistics for football like there is for basketball and hockey?

What does this even mean??  Do you know how they measure those stats in basketball and hockey?  Basketball player and hockey players play defense AND offense….. is that the case in football?  Maybe we should use Rousseau and TE and boost his +/-

On 11/13/2024 at 4:37 PM, Savage said:

Rousseau is just a notch above a JAG.

 

now where near to being a difference maker.

 

an average, to slightly above average player.

 

 

no where near elite.

 

not even close.

 

but a decent player.

 

Great take!!  You really know your football!!

[dave mcbride]

17 hours ago, Savage said:

But how often does he really make a difference in a game?

 

He practically won the AZ game for the Bills this season. That was a big win, in retrospect.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He practically won the AZ game for the Bills this season. That was a big win, in retrospect.

 

 

Even though Rousseau put up huge sack numbers in the one season of college football that he played.........I always knew fans were going to have a hard time seeing his value.   Very few Bills have put up giant sack number seasons, but even if Rousseau ever gets 15 sacks in a season it will never look as dynamic as how guys like Bruce Smith or Bryce Paup did it.   He's just methodical and getting separation from blockers isn't nearly as important to his game with regard to being able to make plays.  His reach and Wilt Chamberlain sized hands allow for him to ride blockers into the play and then make plays without ever getting a full body on the player.   So many of the plays he makes require a rewind to see that he was actually the guy.       

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He practically won the AZ game for the Bills this season. That was a big win, in retrospect.

 

Not only our best win but I think the 2nd best team we have played after Baltimore. I'd take them straight up vs Houston. 

[notpolian]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

What does this even mean??  Do you know how they measure those stats in basketball and hockey?  Basketball player and hockey players play defense AND offense….. is that the case in football?  Maybe we should use Rousseau and TE and boost his +/-

Great take!!  You really know your football!!

I know how they measure these stats in Hockey and Basketball. I would be an easy thing to do but I should have been clearer what I was talking about.  One way would be to find out what the defensive average yards allowed with Rousseau on the field vs. off the field.  Or maybe DVOA with Rousseau on vs off.  There are a ton of factors such as the play called, defense they are in, is there a twist or stunt on (oh wait, the Bills don't do that) but over the course of the season the sample size would be large enough such that things would settle out.  I'd imagine the numerical difference wouldn't be much but the it might be interesting and a way to quantify the benefit of a player. Just curious if some website does that kind of thing. I doubt it, but I don't know.

 

To my eye, we seem weak against the run.  We've been running a 4-2-5 nickel for years, and we've always been vulnerable in the playoffs, but this year it just feels like teams can gash us for 7-10 yards on the ground if they stick with it.  In past years we've done better.   I'm not saying its Rousseau's fault, but he and others simply cannot overcome the scheme.  To me that'd what a difference maker does.  They jump out at you, fans fear playing against them, and teams game plan to take them out.  My bar for that type of player may be higher than most.

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, Savage said:

 

Is top 20 in sacks an actual thing?

 

Is you posting here an actual thing?

 

can we make it stop?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, notpolian said:

I'm not saying its Rousseau's fault, but he and others simply cannot overcome the scheme.  To me that'd what a difference maker does.  They jump out at you, fans fear playing against them, and teams game plan to take them out.  My bar for that type of player may be higher than most.

 

See @NewEra's post earlier about yards given up in the run game with Groot on the field vs without. It appears to me based on the actual evidence that he does "overcome the scheme" to quite a large extent actually.