Ed Oliver - MIA

[JP51]

13 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Any of you guys watching all-22 with an intimate knowledge of the Bills defensive structure and game plan along with the responsibilities of each player on each play?

 

I’m not either.
 

Sometimes DTs have to do the dirty work. Sometimes they create some pocket discomfort that leads to a sack, poor throw, scramble for a short gain and those things don’t have columns. 

 

I’m not saying anyone is wrong. He is not making the splash plays that have Jim Nantz showing some very fake excitement. But he might be doing his job and doing it well. Without an understanding of all the nuances of his 1/11th it’s hard for us to say. 

See I am not looking at splash plays per se, I am seeing him repeatedly not holding his space and causing a disruption... way to many times we have Safeties hung out to dry.  This is the stat that concerns me most

 

Dorian Williams: Leading tackler with 93 total tackles

Damar Hamlin: 61 total tackles

Cam Lewis: 50 total tackles

Taylor Rapp: 50 total tackles  

Other players with notable tackle numbers include:

Christian Benford: 35 total tackles  

[Rigotz]

3 hours ago, 97bills said:

Ed is a jag. Always has been always will be. Everyone we’ve drafted on the Dline , jags. It happens 

 

If you think Rousseau is a jag, you don't know ball.

[notpolian]

Beane is not good at drafting defensive linemen.  Rousseau is good, but not a difference maker.  There is always luck with any one player, but personally, I see an established pattern.  Lack of difference makers on defense is what holds this team back from playoff success.

[GoBills808]

12 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

He’s never been a sack guy.  
 

He’s better against the run.  
 

I think our Run D isn’t as good this year because Jones has fallen off a cliff.  
 

Ed gets doubled most every run play and everyone else is one on one.  
 

Do I love his contract, no.  But he’s important.  
 

You’ll notice how important he is when he’s not in there.  I also think they’re doing some load management with him to keep him fresh for December.  

No he does not

 

in fact the Colts first run they actually passed him off to a TE lol

 

he is getting moved out there

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, notpolian said:

Rousseau is good, but not a difference maker.

 

Rousseau is a difference maker against the run. I consider him elite in that area, possibly #1 in the league. I know that's not the first thing you think of with edge players but it's worth pointing out. As a pass rusher though he is in the "good" tier, I would agree certainly not a difference maker there. He does have a tough job though because there is no interior pressure to speak of so he has to outright get to the QB, if he just makes the QB step up in the pocket that isn't enough to win the rep.

[notpolian]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Rousseau is a difference maker against the run. I consider him elite in that area, possibly #1 in the league. I know that's not the first thing you think of with edge players but it's worth pointing out. As a pass rusher though he is in the "good" tier, I would agree certainly not a difference maker there. He does have a tough job though because there is no interior pressure to speak of so he has to outright get to the QB, if he just makes the QB step up in the pocket that isn't enough to win the rep.

I don't watch all-22 or conventional coverage close enough to say either way if he is that good against the run.  Do other teams always run away from him?  Does he get double teamed?  

 

BTW, does anyone keep on/off or +/- statistics for football like there is for basketball and hockey?

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Rousseau is a difference maker against the run. I consider him elite in that area, possibly #1 in the league. I know that's not the first thing you think of with edge players but it's worth pointing out. As a pass rusher though he is in the "good" tier, I would agree certainly not a difference maker there. He does have a tough job though because there is no interior pressure to speak of so he has to outright get to the QB, if he just makes the QB step up in the pocket that isn't enough to win the rep.

Rousseau has been a great value at 30th overall & there were no elite players at his position drafted after him.

 

Oliver is a different story

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Rousseau is a difference maker against the run. I consider him elite in that area, possibly #1 in the league. I know that's not the first thing you think of with edge players but it's worth pointing out. As a pass rusher though he is in the "good" tier, I would agree certainly not a difference maker there. He does have a tough job though because there is no interior pressure to speak of so he has to outright get to the QB, if he just makes the QB step up in the pocket that isn't enough to win the rep.

 

 

If he were opposite of a prime Jerry Hughes,  Rousseau would be putting up big sack numbers, IMO.   His game currently requires someone to force the QB to step up for him to pile up sacks like he did at The U.  The Bills haven't had that guy.  Rousseau is gradually getting better at creating his own sack opportunities though.   That strip sack of Flacco last week was a subtle thing of beauty and illustrates his elite GPS and reach.    I could easily see him averaging like 12 sacks per year from age 27-32 and ending up accumulating well over 100 in a long career.   As discussed on here many times,  he's a hard player to comp.  

18 minutes ago, notpolian said:

I don't watch all-22 or conventional coverage close enough to say either way if he is that good against the run.  Do other teams always run away from him?  Does he get double teamed?  

 

BTW, does anyone keep on/off or +/- statistics for football like there is for basketball and hockey?

 

As a rookie Rousseau lead NFL DL in run stops.   And in a rotational system where he was only getting about 50% of the snaps.  He is legitimately elite against the run.

 

@NewEra had a stat from the Colts game where basically all the rush yardage the Colts had was when Rousseau was off the field.   He is extremely impactful against the ground game.

[HappyDays]

23 minutes ago, notpolian said:

I don't watch all-22 or conventional coverage close enough to say either way if he is that good against the run.  Do other teams always run away from him?  Does he get double teamed?  

 

He makes a couple of ridiculous individual plays every week against the run. There was one against Indy in the red zone where he's slanting inside and Jonathan Taylor has a wide open path around the right edge. If you looked at a freeze frame you would be certain it was going to be a TD. Instead Rousseau manages to push his blocker back outside and get his hands on Taylor to get him down.

 

In fact, here's the play:

 

 

That's a TD saving play. He does this sort of thing regularly.

[butch rolle]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If he were opposite of a prime Jerry Hughes,  Rousseau would be putting up big sack numbers, IMO.   His game currently requires someone to force the QB to step up for him to pile up sacks like he did at The U.  The Bills haven't had that guy.  Rousseau is gradually getting better at creating his own sack opportunities though.   That strip sack of Flacco last week was a subtle thing of beauty and illustrates his elite GPS and reach.    I could easily see him averaging like 12 sacks per year from age 27-32 and ending up accumulating well over 100 in a long career.   As discussed on here many times,  he's a hard player to comp.  

It's funny that this thread pivoted to Greg Rousseau and his value in relation to raw sack numbers.  His QB hurries, pressure rate, and all other non-sack metrics are top 5-10.  Will it actually help the bills in extending Rousseau if he ends with 8-9 sacks instead of 12+?  I asked this exact question of Joe Marino on the Locked on Bills podcast and he answered it this morning:

 

 

 

[Simon]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He makes a couple of ridiculous individual plays every week against the run. There was one against Indy in the red zone where he's slanting inside and Jonathan Taylor has a wide open path around the right edge. If you looked at a freeze frame you would be certain it was going to be a TD. Instead Rousseau manages to push his blocker back outside and get his hands on Taylor to get him down.

 

In fact, here's the play:

 

 

That's a TD saving play. He does this sort of thing regularly.

 

Rasul Douglas beat his block and is the reason Taylor hesitated enough for Groot to close the deal, imo.

[GoBills808]

46 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He makes a couple of ridiculous individual plays every week against the run. There was one against Indy in the red zone where he's slanting inside and Jonathan Taylor has a wide open path around the right edge. If you looked at a freeze frame you would be certain it was going to be a TD. Instead Rousseau manages to push his blocker back outside and get his hands on Taylor to get him down.

 

In fact, here's the play:

 

 

That's a TD saving play. He does this sort of thing regularly.

I was watching this very play earlier lol

 

I believe Taylor is actually reading Douglas(?) winning his rep outside tbh

 

But yes good from Rousseau and he is very strong v run

11 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Rasul Douglas beat his block and is the reason Taylor hesitated enough for Groot to close the deal, imo.

Should have read this before I commented😂😂

[colin]

i had a lot of hope for ed, but he's a jag+.  he might be still hurt, and has played hurt before, but at some point you judge the player as he is, injuries and all.  groot is a monster and a top 10-15 overall DE in the nfl.  he's not a great pass rusher, but he's a good pass rusher, plays the run great, and most of all for us is a real physical presence on the line, which we need with guys like toohill and solomon playing on the other side like 25+ snaps a game (solomon might develop as a pass rusher, but he's really small for DE imo, toohill is below jag).

 

normally i look at injuries as a luck thing, but the number we keep having on D really makes me think our smaller D is just a little bit too physically frail for all of the ball hunting screaming head on fire stuff they are asked to do.  milano and TB are both small and have had lots of injuries, von obv, ed has been hurt a lot, etc.  i remember thinking star would be a great signing because he was a physical monster who a lot of people had pegged as the best player in the draft when he came out, but he was a physical monster who just didn't care much about football, it was a way for him to earn 10s of millions of dollars and he didn't have the temperament to match his body.

 

our only chance this season is if we get everyone healthy enough to play their best, and that includes ed who i will give some excuse for as i think his hamstring is still not right.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, colin said:

i had a lot of hope for ed, but he's a jag+.  he might be still hurt, and has played hurt before, but at some point you judge the player as he is, injuries and all.  groot is a monster and a top 10-15 overall DE in the nfl.  he's not a great pass rusher, but he's a good pass rusher, plays the run great, and most of all for us is a real physical presence on the line, which we need with guys like toohill and solomon playing on the other side like 25+ snaps a game (solomon might develop as a pass rusher, but he's really small for DE imo, toohill is below jag).

 

normally i look at injuries as a luck thing, but the number we keep having on D really makes me think our smaller D is just a little bit too physically frail for all of the ball hunting screaming head on fire stuff they are asked to do.  milano and TB are both small and have had lots of injuries, von obv, ed has been hurt a lot, etc.  i remember thinking star would be a great signing because he was a physical monster who a lot of people had pegged as the best player in the draft when he came out, but he was a physical monster who just didn't care much about football, it was a way for him to earn 10s of millions of dollars and he didn't have the temperament to match his body.

 

our only chance this season is if we get everyone healthy enough to play their best, and that includes ed who i will give some excuse for as i think his hamstring is still not right.

He's not a jag lol

 

What he is is actually exactly the kind of very good yet unspectacular player that can contribute immensely to a dominant regular season roster

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

He makes a couple of ridiculous individual plays every week against the run. There was one against Indy in the red zone where he's slanting inside and Jonathan Taylor has a wide open path around the right edge. If you looked at a freeze frame you would be certain it was going to be a TD. Instead Rousseau manages to push his blocker back outside and get his hands on Taylor to get him down.

 

In fact, here's the play:

 

 

That's a TD saving play. He does this sort of thing regularly.

 

 

Yep, this was called out by Joe Marino on Locked out Bills podcast. He called it a “ridiculously good” play. He also catogorized Rousseau as an”elite” player against the run.

[colin]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's not a jag lol

 

What he is is actually exactly the kind of very good yet unspectacular player that can contribute immensely to a dominant regular season roster

that's why i called him a jag+

 

when he's been fully healthy he's made some solid plays.  but he's injured too much, and he's smaller and gets absolutely washed sometimes, which offsets some of his better plays.

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, notpolian said:

Beane is not good at drafting defensive linemen.  Rousseau is good, but not a difference maker.  There is always luck with any one player, but personally, I see an established pattern.  Lack of difference makers on defense is what holds this team back from playoff success.

I mustve missed the last 4 years where we won playoff games.  Us and KC are like the only teams the past 4 years to do that.  If we werent in their conference we would def have had even more.  Its not like were one and done.  Also as others have commented, Rousseau is a huge difference maker.  That strip sack last week was pretty important.

[Savage]

7 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

If you think Rousseau is a jag, you don't know ball.

Rousseau is just a notch above a JAG.

 

now where near to being a difference maker.

 

an average, to slightly above average player.

 

 

no where near elite.

 

not even close.

 

but a decent player.

 

[Rigotz]

15 hours ago, Savage said:

Rousseau is just a notch above a JAG.

 

now where near to being a difference maker.

 

an average, to slightly above average player.

 

 

no where near elite.

 

not even close.

 

but a decent player.

 

 

He's going to get $20M-$25M because he's significantly better than what you think he is.

Bookmark this post.

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

He's going to get $20M-$25M because he's significantly better than what you think he is.

Bookmark this post.

Leads the league in TFL, 4th in QB hits, 10th in pressures and top 20 in sacks.  Thinking that is just a notch above JAG is madness.

Edited November 14 by YattaOkasan