Does Brady struggle to feature top TE's and WR?

[Mikie2times]

I know everybody is point guard, everybody eats, we can catch them by surprise if they can't target one player. But if look at Kincaid, 18 targets in his first four games. He had 17 targets in his first 4 games last year. He only started to surface a bit more these last two weeks. If you have an advantage it would make sense to keep going to that advantage and being skilled in designing ways to do so. So did Brady choose to distribute the ball to everybody last year because he thought that was the best way to do it or was he just not good at a focused game plan toe get a #1's more reps? We have somewhat limited WR talent. I would think we would be making more of a targeted effort to involve Kincaid but I don't know if that is going to happen.

 

[RoscoeParrish]

It doesn’t help that he is naturally going to be running in the same space as Shakir.  
 

Really Shakir and Kincaid seem to have the same role. Quick flat, WR screen, drags. If Shakir isn’t running it, Kincaid is and viceversa. 

[BananaB]

Shakir/Samuel and Kincaid/Knox situation makes me wonder sometimes. Right now probably the most proven players in our passing game and only Shakir and  Kincaid are being used. All players are fairly athletic and pretty versatile for their position. Especially Samuel.  The everybody eats thing might come back to haunt you on film with more rotational guys running limited stuff. A pattern will form that will be a give away. Jmo. Not saying a lot of guys can’t contribute, just saying can’t have certain guys just doing the same ***** all the time. 

Edited September 30 by BananaB

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, RoscoeParrish said:

It doesn’t help that he is naturally going to be running in the same space as Shakir.  
 

Really Shakir and Kincaid seem to have the same role. Quick flat, WR screen, drags. If Shakir isn’t running it, Kincaid is and viceversa. 

Ya, perhaps that is more of the barrier but they will need it be able to go to a 2nd option with consistency. Hell, even a first option. With the way these targets look, it might as well be Shakir, Coleman, and Kincaid for every passing target and that doesn’t work with the targets we are seeing. I know we like to involve Cook but Kincaid sort of needs 10 targets for the offensive math to work. 

[bouds]

Since this O became good, 2020, we haven’t had success consistently with our TEs, regardless of who the OC is/was.  This is why taking another TE was such a head scratcher. 

[Comebackkid]

44 minutes ago, bouds said:

Since this O became good, 2020, we haven’t had success consistently with our TEs, regardless of who the OC is/was.  This is why taking another TE was such a head scratcher. 

seems like we handicapped our TE's by putting them in the same position we would put our small quick recievers in.   

doesnt matter to much to the defense who is in the short/intermediate role if you know someone is going to be there.  

but if your not  using your TE's to stretch the field, then it just makes it that much easer to contain the short intermediate routes.

 

we'll see going forward if things evolve or if its still a flawed offense.  

Edited September 30 by Comebackkid

[Alphadawg7]

40 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I know everybody is point guard, everybody eats, we can catch them by surprise if they can't target one player. But if look at Kincaid, 18 targets in his first four games. He had 17 targets in his first 4 games last year. He only started to surface a bit more these last two weeks. If you have an advantage it would make sense to keep going to that advantage and being skilled in designing ways to do so. So did Brady choose to distribute the ball to everybody last year because he thought that was the best way to do it or was he just not good at a focused game plan toe get a #1's more reps? We have somewhat limited WR talent. I would think we would be making more of a targeted effort to involve Kincaid but I don't know if that is going to happen.

 

Keep in mind, our offense took a vacation second half of weeks 2 and 3 and Josh had only 2 attempts before the final drive of the first half week 1.  Not to mention week 2 was the Cook show. 
 

So that’s gonna affect his target totals through these first 4 games.

[78thealltimegreat]

  Look Joe Brady is a disciple of Pete Carmichael and Sean Payton they emphasize the backs in the passing game as much as anyone in the league. 
  If you look at the saints offenses they really never had an alpha receiver with the closest being Marquis Colston.

  The system works provided the defense isn’t getting gashed like they were a Pac 12 defense forcing you to have to throw downfield to get back in a game. 
  If teams march up and down the field on you forcing you to throw downfield get back in the game you are skunked cause that’s not the way his offenses are designed and the Bills don’t have the personnel to do that. 

Edited September 30 by 78thealltimegreat

[GoBills808]

Small ball suddenly isn't as much fun

[Dr.Sack]

Both sides of the ball got owned by a hungrier feistier Ravens team. 260 yards rushing against? 75 yards for? This game was won and lost at the line of scrimmage. 

[Sweats]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Both sides of the ball got owned by a hungrier feistier Ravens team. 260 yards rushing against? 75 yards for? This game was won and lost at the line of scrimmage. 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.......we had no answer on both sides, we played scared, unsure of assignments, etc.

 

#disgusting

[Bangarang]

7 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  Look Joe Brady is a disciple of Pete Carmichael and Sean Payton they emphasize the backs in the passing game as much as anyone in the league. 
  If you look at the saints offenses they really never had an alpha receiver with the closest being Marquis Colston.

  The system works provided the defense isn’t getting gashed like they were a Pac 12 defense forcing you to have to throw downfield to get back in a game. 
  If teams march up and down the field on you forcing you to throw downfield get back in the game you are skunked cause that’s not the way his offenses are designed and the Bills don’t have the personnel to do that. 

 

Michael Thomas

[T master]

9 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I know everybody is point guard, everybody eats, we can catch them by surprise if they can't target one player. But if look at Kincaid, 18 targets in his first four games. He had 17 targets in his first 4 games last year. He only started to surface a bit more these last two weeks. If you have an advantage it would make sense to keep going to that advantage and being skilled in designing ways to do so. So did Brady choose to distribute the ball to everybody last year because he thought that was the best way to do it or was he just not good at a focused game plan toe get a #1's more reps? We have somewhat limited WR talent. I would think we would be making more of a targeted effort to involve Kincaid but I don't know if that is going to happen.

 

 

To add to that i didn't see Knox targeted at all last night & he is a above average TE IMHO . If they are focusing on all your normal guys why not utalize your other weapons and quite possibly take some pressure off the ones they are targeting ? 

 

I believe the Bills have the weapons to off set the kind of pressure they got last night but it wasn't a very good game plan . 

 

Valdez Scantling was brought in for his speed and the deep ball haven't seen him or the deep ball yet, Ty Johnson's speed around the edge was used with success last night but only 1 time, Knox didn't even get a sniff and did they even incorporate the extra lineman to slow down the rush last night ? 

 

I think there were a lot of advantages that were not used last night but hopefully they learn from it moving forward .

[Billever76]

11 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  Look Joe Brady is a disciple of Pete Carmichael and Sean Payton they emphasize the backs in the passing game as much as anyone in the league. 
  If you look at the saints offenses they really never had an alpha receiver with the closest being Marquis Colston.

  The system works provided the defense isn’t getting gashed like they were a Pac 12 defense forcing you to have to throw downfield to get back in a game. 
  If teams march up and down the field on you forcing you to throw downfield get back in the game you are skunked cause that’s not the way his offenses are designed and the Bills don’t have the personnel to do that. 

That's another example of this coaching staff being in over their heads....the conservative,dink and dunk passing game when you have the strongest armed QB in football(maybe in history) is mind boggling

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

That's another example of this coaching staff being in over their heads....the conservative,dink and dunk passing game when you have the strongest armed QB in football(maybe in history) is mind boggling

i think this being Allen's chart in a game they lost 35-10 says it all tbh

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

That's another example of this coaching staff being in over their heads....the conservative,dink and dunk passing game when you have the strongest armed QB in football(maybe in history) is mind boggling

He should have at least 2 or 3 guys who are 4.3 40 guys to let him air out his arm every quarter even if they are incomplete just to keep the safety’s honest. I thought that’s what Curtis Samuel was going to be but he looks like he’s an absolute free agent bust with a bloated contract. 

[Sweats]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

To add to that i didn't see Knox targeted at all last night & he is a above average TE IMHO . If they are focusing on all your normal guys why not utalize your other weapons and quite possibly take some pressure off the ones they are targeting ? 

 

I believe the Bills have the weapons to off set the kind of pressure they got last night but it wasn't a very good game plan . 

 

Valdez Scantling was brought in for his speed and the deep ball haven't seen him or the deep ball yet, Ty Johnson's speed around the edge was used with success last night but only 1 time, Knox didn't even get a sniff and did they even incorporate the extra lineman to slow down the rush last night ? 

 

I think there were a lot of advantages that were not used last night but hopefully they learn from it moving forward .

 

 

 

 

I'm of the belief that you keep using the plays that are working in a game. The same way a team runs up the gut continuously until you show that you can stop it and then they are forced to try something else to compensate.

You could clearly see that the Ravens were blanketing Kincaid, so we should have been targeting Knox and get him more involved.

It's like our coaching staff doesn't see what's going on out there or refuse to change a gameplan that clearly isn't working.

 

#confused

[thenorthremembers]

I am not sure we have a top tight end or wide receiver.     For comparison's sake Kincaid and Shakir are like having Heath Miller and Nate Burleson on the same team.    They really need an elite offensive talent to pair with Allen.   They dont have that currently. 

[SCBills]

Rashee Rice runs a lot of routes in the same space as Kelce and people wondered what happened to Kelce through 3 games. 
 

Same thing here with Shakir and Kincaid. 
 

Not really understanding the vision, but willing to let it play out beyond a 3-1 start with one bad game. 

[T master]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

I'm of the belief that you keep using the plays that are working in a game. The same way a team runs up the gut continuously until you show that you can stop it and then they are forced to try something else to compensate.

You could clearly see that the Ravens were blanketing Kincaid, so we should have been targeting Knox and get him more involved.

It's like our coaching staff doesn't see what's going on out there or refuse to change a gameplan that clearly isn't working.

 

#confused

I've got to say i agree with you, Knox didn't get 1 look last night I'm as confused as you it's not like they don't have weapons then wasn't Ty Johnson used very sparingly & last year he was a beast, plus scored last night so why not use that a lot more ? I'm with you !!