If you thought the Bills’ offense would struggle, what are your thoughts now?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I say it's 3 games in and 14 to go, so it's still early to get too giddy. I want to see where they are at the halfway point before I start believing this may be the year they take it all the way to the big dance. 

 

not taking anything away from how great they as a team, especially JA and the offense, have looked through 3 games. I have learned not to get too excited when there is so much of the season left to go yet.

 

one game at a time. enjoy the ride.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, boyst said:

I meant not getting   don't know why we aren't seeing a plethora of play action with these two high safeties retreating all of the time. 

 

I think a few points:

 

1. You are seeing some - through two weeks 80+% of the Saints offensive success was running and play action pass. But equally the master at stopping that style is Vic Fangio and there are a lot of NFL defenses at the moment trying to run his scheme which takes some of that away with a lot of old school bear defense looks. 

 

2. There are not many teams willing to go under centre a lot because it makes it hard for them to execute everything they want to in their offense and shotgun play actions don't tend to drag linebackers up in quite the same way because it is easier to keep their eyes on the football. 

 

3. Offensive lines man, offensive lines. I think part of the reason the offensive football is so dink and dunk at the moment is the general standard of pass protection I have seen through three weeks is absolutely brutal. And that is making teams reluctant to have their QB under center and turning his back to the rush too much. We are being spoilt by good OL play in Buffalo at the moment. There are not a ton of fanbases experiencing that. 

Edited Wednesday at 10:51 AM by GunnerBill

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a few points:

 

1. You are seeing some - through two weeks 80+% of the Saints offensive success was running and play action pass. But equally the master at stopping that style is Vic Fangio and there are a lot of NFL defenses at the moment trying to run his scheme which takes some of that away with a lot of old school bear defense looks. 

 

2. There are not many teams willing to go under centre a lot because it makes it hard for them to execute everything they want to in their offense and shotgun play actions don't tend to drag linebackers up in quite the same way because it is easier to keep their eyes on the football. 

 

3. Offensive lines man, offensive lines. I think part of the reason the offensive football is so dink and dunk at the moment is the general standard of pass protection I have seen through three weeks is absolutely brutal. And that is making teams reluctant to have their QB under center and turning his back to the rush too much. We are being spoilt by good OL play in Buffalo at the moment. There are not a ton of fanbases experiencing that. 

Haven't seen enough of NO. Will have to watch. I know Tamara is having a resurgence. I think he's talented AF but also very specific to a scheme much like I think Barkley is...

 

Being under center is definitely an issue for all of the dancing and movement pre snap. I think on the Bills sake there is still some opportunities there since Josh does very well to very good under center. Id like to see that mixed in against the ravens specifically to really disguise the PA and our intent. Under center with a defense ready for play action he can still do a QB sweep, RPO or just hit the gap beside the center for a run. 

 

If Josh under center can do 3 step drops and pull the trigger with our line playing strong it would be something. He has had ample time and this would and should make teams respect that he can be a short drop, quick read gunslinger efficiently. 

[SectionC3]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Elite OL, led by Coach Kromer is putting opposing defenses in a body bag. 
 

Josh Allen is an absolute monster who has seemed to elevate his game even further.

 

Brady is doing an incredible job deploying our weapons.   Cook, Kincaid and Shakir are the stars of the Offense, but everyone else has a unique skillset that can be used game to game to attack weaknesses.   
 

We literally have Ty Johnson dunking on Jalen Ramsey down the field and then catching a deep throw TD in the next game.   Perfectly exemplifies how this Offense can hit you with anyone, anywhere, at any time. 

My biggest question is what would this offense look like with a legit WR1?.. and will a game arise where that shows itself.  I honestly don’t that it will.  Especially if we can increasingly get more out of Coleman and Samuel as the season goes on. 

 

He's been the one minor disappointment to me this year.  He saw some time deep into the garbage component of the game on Monday.  Franky I thought we'd see a little more from him, not necessarily in terms of touches but in terms of juice.  

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 I was very optimistic about the rushing attack and was a little concerned with the lack of speed on the outside. 
  Eventually defenses are going to sellout to stop our run game but if the line continues to play well Josh should be able to pick teams apart. 
The best observation I heard last night was on the postgame show where I think it was Zach the host who said the Bills have kinda thrown a wrench into the NFL passing game by essentially having all slot receivers. 
  We are turning into the Patriots in our way of being ahead of the curve on things. 

What we've done is field guys who allow us to take a ball caught near the LOS and pick up 8-10 yards in bites.  And, we still field guys capable of winning on shot attempts - bring the safeties down, and you're going to have to worry about Kincaid and a freaking RB beating you deep.  Running what effectively was a shot off of a wheel was just brilliant.  I love this offense. 

[amprov56]

11 hours ago, eball said:

I just want to also remind everyone that we have a VERY vocal, high-and-mighty poster on this board who assured us that Josh Allen is not and can’t be a “distribute the ball” passer.

 

So we are doomed. 
 

Nooooo

13 hours ago, eball said:

We heard a whole lot of this during the offseason:

 

”How can they trade away Diggs and not bring in a true #1?”

”We have a bottom-three WR room in the NFL!”

”McGovern can’t switch to C; he hasn’t played there since college!”

”Brady can’t design an NFL offense that doesn’t rely upon Josh being Superman every game!”

”McDermott doesn’t understand modern NFL football.”

 

So after three weeks and 112 points, and two 2nd halves spent just running out the clock, is it still “too soon” to say that perhaps Beane and McDermott know what they are doing?

 

 

TBD draws drama queens like moths to a flame!

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah the one lingering concern is 4th quarter two minute drill and we're down by 6 points. Do we have the talent to win in that situation? I suppose the solution is don't end up in that situation to begin with, which is entirely possible if the offense continues performing as well as it has.

the fitz test, right? Slings it all day but when the windows tighten up the deficit shows. On the bright side we have a guy that can just carry a drive like that instead of putting it all on the WRs

 

I’d almost remind folks of the colts defense with manning. Playing with a lead can do great things for the unit. We will see how they handle some adversity. Itll be an interesting storyline to watch. 

 

luckily, we have a cheat code in Josh Allen.

Edited Wednesday at 11:54 AM by NoSaint

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Matt_In_NH]

I was not concerned like many....I believe there is too much hysteria around having lots of WR "weapons" and that is not what really drives success of an offense.  Instead it is actually a great QB and a system that works to get strategic matchups....when you have that you suddenly have "weapons".  Not saying there is not some special talent around the league and that would not help, I just don't think it is a required contributor to your ability to field a SB winning team.  The Chiefs have proved that.   I am super excited by the new offense Brady has implemented so far.   It is still producing points but without the turnovers.  Josh appears to me to have taken another step.

[Sweats]

This team seems different from years back. They seem more focused, they seem more relaxed, they seem hungrier........i don't know, just the feeling i get.

[Simon]

41 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

He's been the one minor disappointment to me this year.  He saw some time deep into the garbage component of the game on Monday.  Franky I thought we'd see a little more from him, not necessarily in terms of touches but in terms of juice

 

I'm not convinced Samuel is 100% yet. He showed some flashes this week but I'll be surprised if he doesn't show more and become the component we both are thinking of.

 

45 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Running what effectively was a shot off of a wheel was just brilliant.

Hopefully it won't be the last time we see it. It should create problems for defenses mixed in with all the hitches and jets they're running. 🤞

[SoCal Deek]

And just think, the Bills scored five first half touchdowns without wasting a play trying to hit MVS on a deep ball. 😉

[SectionC3]

 

14 minutes ago, Simon said:

I'm not convinced Samuel is 100% yet.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you but, if that's the case, it makes me wonder why he's out there inline blocking getting his nose dirty in garbage time. 

[nedboy7]

All I know is this team is super fun to watch.  They seem to be even more cohesive than ever. 

[Dillenger4]

Let's talk Sunday night after the Ravens game. The next 3 weeks will tell us who we are. I thought the Jags game would do that but clearly they are a disaster.

Unless, we are a powerhouse?!?

 

I mean, maybe we are THAT dominant. Even with Tua in the game we looked cheat code worthy. The jags game was a joke. If we punish Bltimore on Sunday night it's on boys!

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

My biggest concern all along was the WRs. Honestly the WRs are performing almost exactly as I expected them to, for better and worse. Shakir is good for ~4 targets per game and is extremely efficient with that sort of volume, and is a YAC monster. Hollins is good for 1 catch a game but is a great run blocker. Coleman is being brought along slowly as he should be. MVS is the same guy he was with the Chiefs. Samuel has actually been worse than what I expected, almost a non-factor so far.

 

Most impressive thing for me across the board from the WRs is that there have been zero drops that I can remember. I don't take this for granted. A passing offense that lacks a lot of explosive pass plays has a low margin for error, and the WRs to their credit are not committing errors.

 

All of that being said I was 100% totally wrong about the offense being capable of performing at a top 3 level with a relatively middling group of WRs. Three thoughts from me on why I was wrong:

 

1) Josh Allen is playing better than I've ever seen him. It's Tom Brady with an occasional flash of the Superman cape. Since making one mistake on his first drive of the season he has been as close to perfect as could be reasonably expected.

 

2) I way underrated the importance of the OL in my offseason analysis. Any group of pass catchers will get open eventually when the QB is kept clean long enough. It's not even just about how little pressure they're giving up, it's how clean the pocket is on almost every throw. I did not even consider that the pass protection could be as good as it has been, which was a mistake on my part.

 

3) I'm a broken record on Joe Brady at this point but I love the way he keeps it simple. Daboll was too cute, Dorsey was too scattershot. Brady just asks his players to do what they do best and gameplans based on his opponent. That formula sounds so easy but 90% of coaches somehow get it wrong. I hope he never develops an ego. He isn't concerned about the offense looking sexy, just doing the right thing on every down based on the personnel and the opponent.

 

All of these factors tie together in a way that is just so smooth. Allen playing this well and getting the ball out quick means Brady's job is easier and the OL doesn't have to hold up for too long. The OL protecting well means Allen's throwing mechanics are always clean and he hasn't looked flustered or out of control a single time this season. Brady using his personnel well and mixing up play calls keeps the offense on schedule and avoids game changing mistakes, and Allen is the beneficiary.

 

Tougher tests to come but who can reasonably have a complaint about this offense right now? Very clean execution from everybody across the board in a way that I didn't really think was possible.

 

As a lifetime Pats fan friend of mine (from Buffalo, actually), put it to me, the current collection of receivers plus the line plus Allen reminds him a lot of the Pats offenses in the years they won super bowls. He believes shakir is the next coming of welker — he  catches everything, does the little things correctly, and immediately bounces back up after being hammered. I think he may have a point. I hope he does! The Pats had Moss, sure, but in the 6 SBs they won, they never had an elite WR1. They did have an elite TE and elite slot guy for a few of them, but the Bills have Kincaid, who looks pretty elite to me. As does Shakhir at his position (slot). I mean, he has caught 27 straight targets!

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a few points:

 

1. You are seeing some - through two weeks 80+% of the Saints offensive success was running and play action pass. But equally the master at stopping that style is Vic Fangio and there are a lot of NFL defenses at the moment trying to run his scheme which takes some of that away with a lot of old school bear defense looks. 

 

2. There are not many teams willing to go under centre a lot because it makes it hard for them to execute everything they want to in their offense and shotgun play actions don't tend to drag linebackers up in quite the same way because it is easier to keep their eyes on the football. 

 

3. Offensive lines man, offensive lines. I think part of the reason the offensive football is so dink and dunk at the moment is the general standard of pass protection I have seen through three weeks is absolutely brutal. And that is making teams reluctant to have their QB under center and turning his back to the rush too much. We are being spoilt by good OL play in Buffalo at the moment. There are not a ton of fanbases experiencing that. 

 

I don't watch many non-Bills games so this observation is a surprise.

 

Roughly 2 out of every 3 yards gained in the modern NFL are gained through the air.   To help make that happen, and keep QBs off IR, contemporary teams have favored offensive linemen who excel at pass pro over the 1970s road graders who knocked people over opening up holes for backs. 

 

With that in mind, I would expect excellent pass pro in the NFL at the moment.

 

In any case, I've spent years criticizing Beane for not building a better OL to protect Josh.  I envied some of the lines that guys like Mahomes and Brady played behind at times and wondered what Josh would do if he could stand in a clean pocket.  Now I know.  

 

 

[dgrochester55]

I figured that Allen would spread the a ball around like he did after Dorsey last year and that the WR's would do just fine, but I expected there to be a little bit of a learning curve to start the season. I guess if you count the first half of week 1, maybe those two quarters were it.

 

The offensive line has been the pleasant surprise on the offensive side of the ball. I haven't really seen Allen get pressured and the running game is effective. Probably the best line that I can remember since the first two Super Bowl years in 1990 and 1991.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:20 PM by dgrochester55

[Orlando Buffalo]

I am honestly surprised that our Oline is mauling everyone. If that continues we could go 17-0 because if Josh has a bad game we can run it down their throats. I expect our line to become just top 5 vs #1 by the end of the year but we will see.  Who gets credit for this transformation? 

[amprov56]

13 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Obviously happy so far but jags are a mess, and we own the dolphins 

 

Plus we have a new scheme without film and it’s September 

 

I think at some point the WRs will slow us down a bit - it’s a big bet on a lot of guys to step up and they aren’t nicked up and playing the chiefs dbs in January currently 

 

McGovern wasn’t a crazy bet and I do trust Kromer a ton with the line 

 

I liked Brady 

 

A hot start is great but it’s a marathon and we aren’t to the real challenges yet 

Great post, last line right on!

34 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't watch many non-Bills games so this observation is a surprise.

 

Roughly 2 out of every 3 yards gained in the modern NFL are gained through the air.   To help make that happen, and keep QBs off IR, contemporary teams have favored offensive linemen who excel at pass pro over the 1970s road graders who knocked people over opening up holes for backs. 

 

With that in mind, I would expect excellent pass pro in the NFL at the moment.

 

In any case, I've spent years criticizing Beane for not building a better OL to protect Josh.  I envied some of the lines that guys like Mahomes and Brady played behind at times and wondered what Josh would do if he could stand in a clean pocket.  Now I know.  

 

 

Great post, I too have had issues for years with the O - Line!

[Logic]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I was more optimistic than most on Brady. I had zero concerns over McGovern. I was worried about the receiver situation. I think our OC has schemed around a weakness brilliantly so far. But I still think it is a weakness. I need to see them succeed in a shoot out where they get forced into pure drop back passing where their shifts and motion etc counts for less. That is the remaining hurdle for me. If I can see them pass and pass successfully when everyone in the stadium know they have to and is playing to take it away then I will relax over the receiver room. As it is, win one of the next two and they are all but guaranteed the playoffs IMO.

This. Pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

I STILL think we have a below average receiver room. I think Joe Brady is scheming so well, and Josh Allen is so talented, that it hasn't mattered much.

The offense has already surpassed my expectations, and I'm cautiously optimistic moving forward. I want to see how the offense does once opposing defenses get more tape on Brady's scheme and figure out his tendencies and tells. Will he have an effective counter-punch? Lest we forget that in games 2, 3, and 4 of last season, the Bills under Dorsey put up 38 37, and 48 points. We saw what happened after that. I also want to see how the offense does against better defenses, and how consistently they can keep up the barrage of points. 

Still: Expectations have been thus far surpassed, and I'm cautiously optimistic.