Josh Allen vs Patrick Mahomes: The changing of the guard?

[ToGoGo]

32 minutes ago, finn said:

That Orlovsky quote (if it's serious) captures the absurdity of the discourse on Mahomes. It's like, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?" To most NFL commentators, it wouldn't matter if Allen outplayed Mahomes all year and won the Super Bowl, while Mahomes threw 16 interceptions and KC didn't make the playoffs; he STILL would be "better" than Allen in their minds. Motivated reasoning, confirmation bias, backfire effect... pick your bias, they're guilty of it. At the bottom of it all is insecurity. They need Mahomes to be better because they've associated his success with themselves in some twisted, unconscious way, so evidence that contradicts their belief doesn't just not matter, it actually causes them to double down on their beliefs because it's so scary to admit they're wrong and Mahomes (aka, they themselves) are second best. So when Allen is hoiting the Lombardi trophy in February, they'll be even more shrilly insistent that Mahomes is better. 

Fast forward to September 2025:

 

”3 rings to 1 brah, it’s not even close.” “Allen has only 1 MVP! Call me when he has 2 like Lamar”. 
 

And on it goes. 

[BillsPride12]

7 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

 

With the way Allen is trending, don't be surprised if there will be more than 1.

 

I'm looking at that EPA chart, and we're beginning to see Allen break out as not just the #1 QB, but a standard deviation above whoever #2 is. That's what it looks like when a high-end HOF/GOAT begins to enter their prime. Lots of casual fans are calling him Mr. September, but anybody who's watched Allen over the years knows that this feels different. It's all starting to come together.

 

It reminds me of the Kobe stories where he worked so hard for so long that he got so far ahead of everybody else, that it wasn't possible for any player to have a "great summer" and get to his level. We might be seeing that with Allen now. 

I agree with this.  Allen has taken his game to another gear this season.  I think part of it is the Offense Joe Brady is calling and part of it is just the experience Josh has now and the mental aspect of the game is slowing down for him and he is getting better at reading what the Defense is giving him.  He has always shown the insane natural athletic ability but now he is putting all of the components of being a dominant QB together and he has just been playing lights out this season.  It's a week to week league and we'll see where things go but this has def been the best version of Josh Allen we have ever seen.  

[Comebackkid]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:17 PM, mollymalonesmafia said:

Dumbest post and topoc of the year. Dear god man. Win a superboel and best him in the playoff first. You cant make this crap up

whats a topoc...asking for a friend..

On 9/24/2024 at 4:37 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Yes because everybody knows super bowls is a quarterback stat not a team stat 

 

Dan Marino was widely considered the greatest quarterback of all time before Brady and he never won a super bowl

thanks for bringing this up...people should focus on the title..its about the qb..mahomes vs allen not the bills vs kc.   

last i checked josh not play defense..josh does not calll the defensive or offensive plays. josh does not run out there and catch his 

own football.   While josh does run the ball he is not the rb.    there is a ton of things goin on in a game that josh does not control and this 

is not about those things. 

[Chicken Boo]

On 9/23/2024 at 10:42 PM, Shortchaz said:

Love spiking the football in September 

 

It's so weird. 

 

I have to wonder if Packers fans did this when Rodgers was prime and Brady was winning Super Bowls.

[NewEra]

On 9/24/2024 at 3:11 PM, SaulGoodman said:

 

Well, of course you think that. Most unbiased fans don't. 

 

One QB is more dialed in because he has a lot more to prove. The other has nothing to prove and is facing much better teams. 

Well, of course you think that.  Most unbiased fans don’t.  
 

The current national narrative is that Josh is playing the QB position better than anyone in the world.  This isn’t just a bills message board saying this.

[Orlando Buffalo]

I think the two of them have been reading who is the best QB every about 5 games over the past 4 years. The separation between those two and three is enormous 

[NewEra]

On 9/24/2024 at 11:37 PM, SaulGoodman said:

Marino was widely considered the GOAT? He’s usually nowhere close in that argument. And specifically due to the lack of championships. 
 

No QB has ever accomplished what Mahomes has at this point in a career. And those who are in the vicinity didn’t have the unique combination of abilities that Mahomes possesses. The off-platform sidearm throws, the athleticism, improv ability, escapability, instincts, arm strength, etc. 

 

Of course you’re going to favor your guy if there’s any argument to be made. But if the roles were reversed and you were a KC fan, you’d laugh your ass off at people claiming that Allen is obviously the better player. It’s like a Chargers fan claiming that Rivers had clearly surpassed prime Brady after a couple wins over the Lions and Browns.

 

The narrative that Allen is disrespected by the media has always been ridiculous. He’s been hyped more than any QB in history with similar accomplishments. 

Prior to Brady/Manning the best QBs were considered to be Montana and Unitas but Marino was always IN that argument, not just close to it.  Most people with eyes could see that Marino was a much better passer than both of them.  It’s not his fault that he never had a great defense or a running game (or WRs for that matter-  Clayton and Duper can thank 13 for making them into “stars”).  Winning super bowls is a complete team/coaching thing.  It’s not just a QB thing.  
 

There’s a reason he’s received so much hype-   Because people have eyes and can see how amazing he is.  There’s never been a QB like him.  Not even Mahomes.  
 

Josh can literally do EVERYTHING Pat does on the football field.  The same can’t be said for Mahomes.  He doesn’t have the same supporting cast.  If you don’t think that that matters a LOT, you’re even more dense than I had originally thought

[SaulGoodman]

23 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And every postseason that defense plays like hot garbage when it matters the most. Even last year, K.C.'s offense was BAD an yet the Bills defense managed to allow K.C. to score the most points out of all of their 4 post season games. If the Bills D would have played to the average of the Ravens, 49ers and Dolphins (Dolphins!?!) they would have easily beat K.C. 

 

The Bills D has been BAD in 4 straight post season exists. This argument that Allen has a top defense every year doesn't hold any water when we start talking about the lack of postseason success for the Bills. You would think by blind luck they would have had at least one good defensive game out of 4 attempts. 

 

The Bills allowed 27 pts vs KC last postseason. In the Mahomes era, KC's defense has allowed 27 or more 6 times. If Bass makes that kick, it's 7 times. They've allowed 30+ pts 5 times and won 3 of them. 

 

If you take out the KC games, Buffalo's postseason defensive numbers are solid. If you're expecting to shut down a Mahomes/Reid offense in the playoffs, you're going to be continually disappointed. 

 

Did Allen do his part by scoring 10 pts vs Cincinnati? Why couldn't such an incredible talent muster more than 24 vs KC at home last year? Why didn't he score on more than half his drives against a mediocre KC defense that was falling down/blowing coverages every other play in '21? 

 

In the '20 AFC title game, Allen was gifted a muffed punt and six points early in the game. Why was his team down 38-15 before garbage time, against a mediocre defense?

 

Who deserves the most credit for the 17-3 postseason win vs Baltimore? Why couldn't Allen lead his team to more than 19 pts in OT the year before?

 

 

[Success]

11 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

The Bills allowed 27 pts vs KC last postseason. In the Mahomes era, KC's defense has allowed 27 or more 6 times. If Bass makes that kick, it's 7 times. They've allowed 30+ pts 5 times and won 3 of them. 

 

If you take out the KC games, Buffalo's postseason defensive numbers are solid. If you're expecting to shut down a Mahomes/Reid offense in the playoffs, you're going to be continually disappointed. 

 

Did Allen do his part by scoring 10 pts vs Cincinnati? Why couldn't such an incredible talent muster more than 24 vs KC at home last year? Why didn't he score on more than half his drives against a mediocre KC defense that was falling down/blowing coverages every other play in '21? 

 

In the '20 AFC title game, Allen was gifted a muffed punt and six points early in the game. Why was his team down 38-15 before garbage time, against a mediocre defense?

 

Who deserves the most credit for the 17-3 postseason win vs Baltimore? Why couldn't Allen lead his team to more than 19 pts in OT the year before?

 

 

 

So, now it's not enough to try to argue Mahomes is better.

 

Nope, not nearly enough.  You need to come to a Buffalo Bills message board, and diminish Allen.  

 

Congrats.

 

Edited September 28 by Success

[SaulGoodman]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Prior to Brady/Manning the best QBs were considered to be Montana and Unitas but Marino was always IN that argument, not just close to it.  Most people with eyes could see that Marino was a much better passer than both of them.  It’s not his fault that he never had a great defense or a running game (or WRs for that matter-  Clayton and Duper can thank 13 for making them into “stars”).  Winning super bowls is a complete team/coaching thing.  It’s not just a QB thing.  
 

There’s a reason he’s received so much hype-   Because people have eyes and can see how amazing he is.  There’s never been a QB like him.  Not even Mahomes.  

 

So is he widely hyped or disrespected? I've seen a TON of posts here indicating the latter. 

 

Whatever fits the argument, eh?

 

 

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

Josh can literally do EVERYTHING Pat does on the football field.  The same can’t be said for Mahomes.  He doesn’t have the same supporting cast.  If you don’t think that that matters a LOT, you’re even more dense than I had originally thought

 

If you can't see that Mahomes has had mediocre/bad defense throughout most of his career, and also subpar weapons/OL/running game at times, then you're pretty dense yourself. 

 

[Success]

1 minute ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

So is he widely hyped or disrespected? I've seen a TON of posts here indicating the latter. 

 

Whatever fits the argument, eh?

 

 

 

If you can't see that Mahomes has had mediocre/bad defense throughout most of his career, and also subpar weapons/OL/running game at times, then you're pretty dense yourself. 

 

 

You bummed that the national media is catching on to the fact that Allen is better than Mahomes?

 

[SaulGoodman]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Well, of course you think that.  Most unbiased fans don’t.  
 

The current national narrative is that Josh is playing the QB position better than anyone in the world.  This isn’t just a bills message board saying this.

 

Congrats on leading the NFL in hype after week 3. 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

If you take out the KC games, Buffalo's postseason defensive numbers are solid. If you're expecting to shut down a Mahomes/Reid offense in the playoffs, you're going to be continually disappointed. 

 

big gap between shutting down and not allowing 38 or 42 points like in the first two match ups.

 

and like I pointed out, the Ravens, 49ers and even Dolphins had no problem holding last year’s pedestrian Chiefs offense to under 27 points.

 

both the Ravens and 49ers shut down Chiefs offense in back to back games holding them to under 20 in regulation. Something the Bills were able to do in the regular season. But like clock work the Bills defense folded in the divisional round.

 

 

[finn]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Josh can literally do EVERYTHING Pat does on the football field.  The same can’t be said for Mahomes.  

This. To rephrase it, Allen can do everything Mahomes can, but Mahomes can't do everything Allen can. Even Mahomes would have to admit that. 

[ColoradoBills]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:31 PM, Simon said:

They've been 1a and 1b for almost 5 years now, with Mahomes maintaining a slight edge.

But Josh Allen has passed Patrick Mahomes and is currently the best QB on planet Earth.

That is all.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

So is he widely hyped or disrespected? I've seen a TON of posts here indicating the latter. 

 

Whatever fits the argument, eh?

no….. I’m not all the posts you see.  Go to chiefs planet.  Does everyone there have sound judgement?  🤣 

 

He’s currently widely hyped based on his amazing play.  He’s been widely disrespected in the past based on his turnovers AND his team failing him in the playoffs. 

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

 

 

If you can't see that Mahomes has had mediocre/bad defense throughout most of his career, and also subpar weapons/OL/running game at times, then you're pretty dense yourself. 

 

WTH are you even talking about?  He’s been without tyreek for 2 years and 3 games.  So he had tyreek and kelce for 4 years as a starter.  Are those subpar years?  
 

Mahomes has THE BEST coaching staff in the league leading his offense and his defense. Spags beat what would have been the best team in nfl history in the Super Bowl.  Reid is the best offensive mind in the nfl.  
 

Josh has a solid head coach that wasn’t able to make sure his kicker kicked a kick off in play that would’ve won 13 secs.  He’s had 3 different play callers on O.  3 different play callers on D.  His team has suffered SEVERAL key injuries to the teams best players causing them to miss playoff games. 

Just answer this:  Are you saying Josh Allen has been in a better, equal or lesser situation than Mahomes?

Edited September 29 by NewEra

[julian]

2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

So is he widely hyped or disrespected? I've seen a TON of posts here indicating the latter. 

 

Whatever fits the argument, eh?

 

 

 

If you can't see that Mahomes has had mediocre/bad defense throughout most of his career, and also subpar weapons/OL/running game at times, then you're pretty dense yourself. 

 

You can’t be taken seriously after this lol, this is no different than the dude who pretends to be a blockhead Jets fan on this board twice a year.

 

this is a skit folks, nobody and I mean nobody can be this uniformed about KC, I mean KC is on national prime time 7 times a year for the last 6 years lol.

[Inigo Montoya]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

no….. I’m not all the posts you see.  Go to chiefs planet.  Does everyone there have sound judgement?  🤣 

 

I post occasionally on the Gang Green and Fins Nation message boards under the same name I use here.  I'm not a bomb thrower or troll and always let people know I'm a Bills fan.  There are some smart posters on those boards that you can have a good conversation with and gain some insight.

 

I couple of seasons ago I registered to be able to post on Chiefs Planet but have never done so.  It is the most abhorrent chat room / message board I've ever been to.  The filth that is spewed on that message board is unbelievable and is an embarrassment to every Chiefs' fans. 

 

I suspect the silent majority of Chiefs fans are good people, but you'd never know it by reading Chiefs Planet.

[SaulGoodman]

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

no….. I’m not all the posts you see.  Go to chiefs planet.  Does everyone there have sound judgement?  🤣 

 

He’s currently widely hyped based on his amazing play.  He’s been widely disrespected in the past based on his turnovers AND his team failing him in the playoffs. 

WTH are you even talking about?  He’s been without tyreek for 2 years and 3 games.  So he had tyreek and kelce for 4 years as a starter.  Are those subpar years?  
 

Mahomes has THE BEST coaching staff in the league leading his offense and his defense. Spags beat what would have been the best team in nfl history in the Super Bowl.  Reid is the best offensive mind in the nfl.  
 

Josh has a solid head coach that wasn’t able to make sure his kicker kicked a kick off in play that would’ve won 13 secs.  He’s had 3 different play callers on O.  3 different play callers on D.  His team has suffered SEVERAL key injuries to the teams best players causing them to miss playoff games. 

Just answer this:  Are you saying Josh Allen has been in a better, equal or lesser situation than Mahomes?

 

Regardless of what's happened in a few playoff games, Allen has arguably the best defensive head coach in the game right now. He also has an excellent OC, and Daboll was great before him. Meanwhile, Mahomes' OC is currently holding KC's offense back. 

 

Unbiased parties like PFF have rated several of Allen's rosters either on par with KC's or better. 

 

Allen's had several years of an equal or better offensive cast than what Mahomes had the last two years. His D has been better every year but one. Kelce and Hill were a nice combo in the early years, but that's two players, and the defense was never above average while Hill was on the roster.

 

Mahomes has often faced teams with better overall rosters and usually comes out on top. All four SB opponents were clearly more stacked than KC, yet the Chiefs won 3 of 4.

 

The "he needs a great cast" line rings pretty hollow given that he's won both Super Bowls since Tyreek left, with weak receivers and weak tackles both years. 

 

Let's see Allen win a SB with Juju Smith-Schuster and MVS as his top two WRs, an average at best defense, and a high ankle sprain. Or an AFC title game with MVS, Skyy Moore and a practice squad player as his top WRs. Are you telling me that roster was loaded?

 

Teams have rarely let a QB down more than in the 2020 SB. Mahomes was running for his life the entire game (probably the worst OL play ever in a SB), yet he was still making great throws and gave the team a chance. Unfortunately for him, his receivers dropped numerous throws that hit either their facemask or hands (including three would-be TDs). His defense was torn apart, the running game did nothing, and his teammates piled up penalties. 

 

For every postseason game that Allen's defense let him down, Mahomes has a couple of his own. Aside from that one, there was the AFC title game vs NE. 37 points allowed at home, capped by Dee Ford's blunder. Mahomes never saw the ball again after getting his team in position for a tying FG in under 30 seconds. The defense allowed 35 vs the Eagles, but Mahomes still won. They allowed 36 vs the Bills (also, Butker missed multiple kicks) and put him in a hole with 13 seconds left. Still won. 

 

In '19, he was in a double digit hole in every playoff game, and won every game by double digits. Against Houston, his team put him in a 24-0 hole thanks to a comedy of errors. He had the lead by halftime and scored 51 straight points or whatever. 

 

To date, there's one playoff loss that Mahomes deserves blame for (out of 18 total playoff starts). Cincinnati in '21. And even that amounted to a handful of bad plays in the second half, after a nearly perfect first half. 

 

Something that's never mentioned when people make comparisons of playoff stats is the difference in competition. The defenses that Allen's faced have been considerably weaker on average. That's because he's only been past the divisional round once, while Mahomes is in the AFCC at a minimum every year. Facing those SF defenses, Baltimore last year, etc is not the same as Houston, IND, Miami, etc. Mahomes has put up ridiculous numbers in the early rounds of the playoffs. 

 

Why's it so hard for Bills fans to admit that Allen hasn't been perfect? That 10 points wasn't good enough vs Cincy? Or 19 in OT vs a mediocre Houston team? Or that the defense won the game vs Baltimore (17-3)? That he could've been a lot better in the AFCC game in '20? That he could've made more plays in the last matchup vs KC, and fumbled at the worst possible time? Or that he could have positioned his team better in playoff seeding in some seasons.

Edited September 29 by SaulGoodman

[SaulGoodman]

5 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I post occasionally on the Gang Green and Fins Nation message boards under the same name I use here.  I'm not a bomb thrower or troll and always let people know I'm a Bills fan.  There are some smart posters on those boards that you can have a good conversation with and gain some insight.

 

I couple of seasons ago I registered to be able to post on Chiefs Planet but have never done so.  It is the most abhorrent chat room / message board I've ever been to.  The filth that is spewed on that message board is unbelievable and is an embarrassment to every Chiefs' fans. 

 

I suspect the silent majority of Chiefs fans are good people, but you'd never know it by reading Chiefs Planet.

 

I won't deny that board tends to be more crude than others, but most of the posters don't take it too seriously. It's just schtick in 90% of cases. 
 

10 hours ago, julian said:

You can’t be taken seriously after this lol, this is no different than the dude who pretends to be a blockhead Jets fan on this board twice a year.

 

this is a skit folks, nobody and I mean nobody can be this uniformed about KC, I mean KC is on national prime time 7 times a year for the last 6 years lol.

 

Can you explain what I said that's wrong?

Edited September 29 by SaulGoodman