Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They should have taken multiple guys at the position either way.

 

100%. I'm still in disbelief that they didn't given the strength of the class, and presumably knowing from futures scouting that the 2025 WR class would be weak. Right now I still would take Troy Franklin over either Bishop or Carter. Even though he didn't do much as a rookie I would still rather have a developmental vertical WR on the roster than the absolute nothing that we have in that role now. And this year you aren't likely to find a WR of his caliber in the 3rd round. I'm a fan of Matthew Golden in the 1st this year. A bit safer of a pick with maybe a more limited ceiling than I usually like in the 1st round, but I'm kind of with you now that we just need someone who can run routes and separate to give the WR room a reasonable floor.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Yes philosophically the chiefs are playing chess to our checkers when it comes to WR.

 

I guess my point was that good vs bad process doesn’t matter as much if you get the right guy.  
 

it’s the ultimate make-up. If Beane had nailed BTJ instead of Coleman or Worthy or whoever, it erases what, 2 years of WR mistakes? It honestly does. 

We weren't a BTJ away from beating the Chiefs. We needed a difference making DE and guess what the best rookie was Chop Robinson and hate to break it to you he wouldn't have been good enough even as DROY.

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

We weren't a BTJ away from beating the Chiefs. We needed a difference making DE and guess what the best rookie was Chop Robinson and hate to break it to you he wouldn't have been good enough even as DROY.

I disagree entirely.

 

josh had the ball in his hands with 3 min to go down 3.

 

We also could’ve gone up two scores without resorting to a QB sneak that was called short.

 

We legitimately were one receiver other than Mack Hollins delivering on offense from winning that game.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well Alpha the offense as put together by Beane has had two consecutive chances with the ball in their hands to get past the Chiefs and fell short both times.

 

First, lets be fair here...the Bills had the refs swing the game by a minimum of 11 points, possibly by 15 points in a game we lost by 3 midway through the 4th quarter.  To put the Chiefs loss on the WR position is not fair at all, a game we still scored 29 despite the stolen possession by the refs...and against a team who had not scored 30 all year.

 

And on our final series of downs, Allen had a ball knocked down to a wide open WR at the LOS, Allen missed seeing a wide open Shakir on 4th for a sure first down, and most importantly it was Allen who incorrectly shifted the coverage to the left on the 4th and 5 play that caused Allen to throw a hero ball...and to Kincaid who was also running totally wide open for a massive gain had he not shifted the coverage wrong and had time to throw a proper ball.  So to put it on the WR position on the last drive is not reflective of the actual game in any capacity.

 

Most importantly...when your defense gives up the most points in NFL history in their post season losses, you are making your QB have to be perfect.  You want to be mad about the position Allen is being put in, that is where your frustration should be placed.  Meanwhile, Mahomes with his 3 most underwhelming offenses of his career went to 3 straight SB's winning 2...why because his team didn't require him to always be perfect to win games, the defense gives him help as well as ST.  

 

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And now we have just 3 WRs on the roster with zero that can definitely be trusted outside. The half measures and the bandaids aren't getting it done. Last year was a great year to need WRs and he didn't capitalize. This year is a crappy year to need WRs and we're backed into a corner, again. Absolutely that all falls on Beane.

 

So who did we miss on in the draft that was realistic to be chosen with our pick?  It definitely wasn't Worthy who at no time was the type of WR we needed.  Ladd was there, and check my history, I loved Ladd ahead of the draft and said him and BTJ were the 2 clear next best WR's outside the top 3.  But, he also the kind of WR he projected to be felt more like a redundancy once we signed Samuel and already had Shakir.  Bills needed more size and outside help.  

 

The only real mistake in the draft at the WR position was not trying to trade up for BTJ when he fell close enough.  That was my target, I thought if he got in the 20's we should move up and would move up.  I get why Beane was trying to move down rather than up to get more picks with our cap hits and so much turnover getting rid of age on the roster, so I don't have an issue with not moving up.  But of all the gettable WR's, that was the only "miss", not trying to get him.  

 

Here is the most damning stat to the "but its the WR's" argument...The Chiefs are now 4-0 against the Bills in the postseason, but just 1-3 in games after eliminating the Bills in the post season. 

• Chiefs PPG in their 4 wins against the Bills:  35 PPG
• Chiefs PPG in their 3 losses the game after beating the Bills:  17 PPG

To even think for a second that offense is the root of our problems is absolutely wild to me.

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

First, lets be fair here...the Bills had the refs swing the game by a minimum of 11 points, possibly by 15 points in a game we lost by 3 midway through the 4th quarter.  To put the Chiefs loss on the WR position is not fair at all, a game we still scored 29 despite the stolen possession by the refs...and against a team who had not scored 30 all year.

 

And on our final series of downs, Allen had a ball knocked down to a wide open WR at the LOS, Allen missed seeing a wide open Shakir on 4th for a sure first down, and most importantly it was Allen who incorrectly shifted the coverage to the left on the 4th and 5 play that caused Allen to throw a hero ball...and to Kincaid who was also running totally wide open for a massive gain had he not shifted the coverage wrong and had time to throw a proper ball.  So to put it on the WR position on the last drive is not reflective of the actual game in any capacity.

 

Most importantly...when your defense gives up the most points in NFL history in their post season losses, you are making your QB have to be perfect.  You want to be mad about the position Allen is being put in, that is where your frustration should be placed.  Meanwhile, Mahomes with his 3 most underwhelming offenses of his career went to 3 straight SB's winning 2...why because his team didn't require him to always be perfect to win games, the defense gives him help as well as ST.  

 

 

So who did we miss on in the draft that was realistic to be chosen with our pick?  It definitely wasn't Worthy who at no time was the type of WR we needed.  Ladd was there, and check my history, I loved Ladd ahead of the draft and said him and BTJ were the 2 clear next best WR's outside the top 3.  But, he also the kind of WR he projected to be felt more like a redundancy once we signed Samuel and already had Shakir.  Bills needed more size and outside help.  

 

The only real mistake in the draft at the WR position was not trying to trade up for BTJ when he fell close enough.  That was my target, I thought if he got in the 20's we should move up and would move up.  I get why Beane was trying to move down rather than up to get more picks with our cap hits and so much turnover getting rid of age on the roster, so I don't have an issue with not moving up.  But of all the gettable WR's, that was the only "miss", not trying to get him.  

 

Here is the most damning stat to the "but its the WR's" argument...The Chiefs are now 4-0 against the Bills in the postseason, but just 1-3 in games after eliminating the Bills in the post season. 

• Chiefs PPG in their 4 wins against the Bills:  35 PPG
• Chiefs PPG in their 3 losses the game after beating the Bills:  17 PPG

To even think for a second that offense is the root of our problems is absolutely wild to me.

 

 

 

 

I think it’s more that folks trust Josh + good receivers to deliver in crunch time over defense with additional stars coached by McD.

 

Thats really it.

[Alphadawg7]

52 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think it’s more that folks trust Josh + good receivers to deliver in crunch time over defense with additional stars coached by McD.

 

Thats really it.

 

Well, that is fair.

 

But with our defense the way its been, you better have a 2 score lead when the Chiefs have the ball late in the 4th because Mahomes is the only QB in NFL history to have a 100% success rate to tie or take the game winning lead at the end of the 4th.  No other QB even has a 50% success rate, Mahomes has a perfect 100% while also having the most chances, still 100% success rate.  

 

So lets say Allen and the Bills scored 1 more TD against the Chiefs...Bills would have been up 4 instead down 3.  You really think our defense doesn't give up the game winning TD to Mahomes if there is any time left on the clock?  

 

What is easier...making just one more defensive play (which would have won all 3 of our last Chief playoff losses) to force a punt instead of the eventual score...or asking Allen and the 16th best offense in history to now score 2 more times a game just to have enough of a lead that our D doesn't blow it to KC like it did in 2022 when it gave up 2 TD's and a FG when there was under 2 minutes left in the game. 

 

For me...go get a game wrecker whose talent trumps scheme that is capable of just doing enough on 1 more play that forces a punt instead of allowing another 3rd down conversion that resulted in another scoring drive.  That is much easier than trying to take make the offense the #1 offense in NFL history and asking Allen to be perfect all the time.    

Edited 9 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think it’s more that folks trust Josh + good receivers to deliver in crunch time over defense with additional stars coached by McD.

 

Thats really it.

Really well said here!! The answer is, “it’s both.” The Bills need to improve the defense (specifically pass rush) AND get better on the outside with playmaking WRs. You articulated here though some of the divide that’s been on this board for months (if not years). When push comes to shove Josh is the guy that’s going to get this team over the top, not McDermott.
 

It is like if you’re a pitcher and you throw 97. You have a really good fastball. There are 2 schools of thought on how you get better. We can work on your curve to make you more balanced OR we can try to get 97 to 101. Both avenues will make you better but do you believe that a good fastball and pretty good curve ball is better than an elite fastball and average curve? I’m generally of the belief that you take what you do best and make it better. It’s the concept of the book “Strengthfinders.” Understand what you do well and try to do that better as oppossed to spending time/resources trying to cover up your warts.

Edited 4 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[Kirby Jackson]

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