Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Josh definitely deserves some blame, but I think there’s a reason we have zero points in those situations against the Chiefs. We hinder ourselves not letting Josh be Josh. In both three minute situations, the OC called plays based on running the clock. We never fully unleashed the offense because we wanted to score with no time left. That’s a tough game to play. It seems like we don’t want McD’s precious defense to be the reason we lose on a final possession. 

Ehh calls were good imo outside of maybe the first down play after the Josh scramble and even that one is hard to tell what happened.  Samuel was open for a nice gain on the ball that got batted and that screen should’ve gone for big yardage if our guys can actually keep their footing.  If josh doesn’t miss the slide protect on that 4th down play (granted it wasn’t super obvious like some say) Kincaid is probably wide open for a big gain/td and we’re talking about how the bills scored too fast ironically 😂. That screen to cooper definitely caught them off guard too but the execution was terrible.  That could’ve been a huge gainer also 

 

There was nothing really drawn up to risk not picking up a first to run clock there imo.  In fact I think the chiefs were probably selling out to stop the run to prevent us from just running out the clock. It was a ton of factors and I wouldn’t call it Josh’s fault, but the offense was opened up there and they came up short 

Edited Wednesday at 05:57 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Unless that gadget is some kind of button that allows you to get catches when you didn't catch the ball.  

 

the guy who holds the ball last caught the ball.  give me a guy who continues to fight for a contested ball over the guys who can't hold onto a pass delivered into their hands (and no one others).

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

the guy who holds the ball last caught the ball.  give me a guy who continues to fight for a contested ball over the guys who can't hold onto a pass delivered into their hands (and no one others).

 

Arent you down by contact when the ball hits the ground though?  And at that point, he had one hand on it.  Did i mention it hit the ground?

 

The wording of the challenge that buffalo was challenging that their guy caught it, may have been the undoing.  I think it likely should have been challenged that it was incomplete.  

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint:

 

two years in a row Josh Allen had the ball in his hand with 3 min left down 3 vs the Chiefs and scored 0 points.

 

If our defense could get a stop and get to Mahomes we wouldn't have had to been down to the Chiefs on the final drive having to find a way to score against one of the greatest Defensive Coordinators in history.  

 

The last 2 teams to beat the Chiefs in the playoffs were leading the Chiefs in the 4th quarter.  Bucs, who blew them out dominating them with their defense and the Bengals who held the Chiefs to just 3 points in the 2nd half, which came on the final play of the entire 2nd half at end of regulation as Benglas put the onus on the Chiefs to come back to extend into OT.

 

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

 

Also very odd point to reference our #1 offense and then reference all the top 10 offenses that didn’t win Superbowls. Maybe our offense was too good to win this year? 

 

How is it odd?  People seem to think the only solution is to make our already top offense better...one that was already historic as a team and as an individual player in Josh...as a solution to the Chiefs problem.  I was pointing out how that isn't the sure fire solution everyone seems to think it is given that even fielding the greatest offenses in history didn't translate to SB wins with the majority of the teams.  

[BullBuchanan]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Arent you down by contact when the ball hits the ground though?  And at that point, he had one hand on it.  Did i mention it hit the ground?

 

The wording of the challenge that buffalo was challenging that their guy caught it, may have been the undoing.  I think it likely should have been challenged that it was incomplete.  

When a play is reviewed, all challenge-able aspects of the play are reviewed. No reason is needed.

[90sBills]

10 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Arent you down by contact when the ball hits the ground though?  And at that point, he had one hand on it.  Did i mention it hit the ground?

 

The wording of the challenge that buffalo was challenging that their guy caught it, may have been the undoing.  I think it likely should have been challenged that it was incomplete.  

It was a wasted challenge to me because of the defensive holding penalty. Even if you win that challenge they still get a first down in the red zone. 

[DCOrange]

16 hours ago, Lost said:

 

Watch Beane bring in someone like Dionte Johnson this offseason and act like he upgraded the WR room.

From a talent perspective, that would be a gigantic upgrade. He's obviously got a lot of issues that arguably make the talent not worth it though.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Arent you down by contact when the ball hits the ground though?  And at that point, he had one hand on it.  Did i mention it hit the ground?

 

The wording of the challenge that buffalo was challenging that their guy caught it, may have been the undoing.  I think it likely should have been challenged that it was incomplete.  

 

Ball can hit the ground as you know.  Plus, if the challenge was worded as who possessed the pass, it still could have been overturned if on review they rule that no one caught it (incomplete).

 

50;50 possession goes to the Offense.  Would have been a 1st down (granted, not at the 3) if incomplete anyway because of the penalty on Damar.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, 90sBills said:

It was a wasted challenge to me because of the defensive holding penalty. Even if you win that challenge they still get a first down in the red zone. 

 

1st and 10 at the 21 or 1st and goal from the 3.  We had trouble stopping them all game, but more plays to get there is more chances for a mistake or for someone to make a play.   Felt like a pretty solid win there.

 

Also that was a trash holding call.  As was the facemask on elam.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

From a talent perspective, that would be a gigantic upgrade. He's obviously got a lot of issues that arguably make the talent not worth it though.

 

Beane pulling a 1 year contract off the top of his pile with Josh Gordons's name on it

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If our defense could get a stop and get to Mahomes we wouldn't have had to been down to the Chiefs on the final drive having to find a way to score against one of the greatest Defensive Coordinators in history.  

Our QB having the ball in his hands with 3 minutes left down 3 is a situation I would take 10/10 playing any opponent anywhere. We should have the players to support that.

 

Our defense on the field facing Lamar/Burrow/Mahomes with the ball in their hands up 3 with 3 minutes left is a situation I would not take 10/10 times.

 

The reason we lost is because on the biggest play of the game, Josh Allen made a heroic throw that hit a receiving option in his hands, and was incomplete:

 

That’s why we need to upgrade the offense. Because when Josh has the ball with 3 minutes left, we should score. 

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Arent you down by contact when the ball hits the ground though?  And at that point, he had one hand on it.  Did i mention it hit the ground?

 

The wording of the challenge that buffalo was challenging that their guy caught it, may have been the undoing.  I think it likely should have been challenged that it was incomplete.  

I think it should have been incomplete too. The difference was first and 10 on the 3 vs 1st and 10 on the 24 due to the defensive holding call on the play. KC might’ve still scored a TD but it was not insignificant. Interesting thought on the wording of the challenge. I don’t know if that impacted the ruling or not. 

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

1st and 10 at the 21 or 1st and goal from the 3.  We had trouble stopping them all game, but more plays to get there is more chances for a mistake or for someone to make a play.   Felt like a pretty solid win there.

 

Also that was a trash holding call.  As was the facemask on elam.  

Completely agree on the iffy holding calls. I’d argue it was better for us that they had 1st and goal because it left more time on the clock. That allowed Allen time to really shine in that drive before half for the TD. Just wish we could’ve done it again at the end of the game. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ball can hit the ground as you know.  Plus, if the challenge was worded as who possessed the pass, it still could have been overturned if on review they rule that no one caught it (incomplete).

 

50;50 possession goes to the Offense.  Would have been a 1st down (granted, not at the 3) if incomplete anyway because of the penalty on Damar.

 

 

 

It wasn't 50/50 though... when bishop hits the ground he's got 2 hands on the ball, and elam has one - isn't that more like 33% possession?  

 

Also the ball hitting the ground can't help you catch it is my understanding.  And if that ball doesn't hit the ground, worthy doesn't catch it.  

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

1st and 10 at the 21 or 1st and goal from the 3.  We had trouble stopping them all game, but more plays to get there is more chances for a mistake or for someone to make a play.   Felt like a pretty solid win there.

 

Also that was a trash holding call.  As was the facemask on elam.  

 

he grabbed his facemask, turns his head half around

[DCOrange]

50 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I think Cooper wasn't completely healed and might be way we used him sparingly. Or some personal stuff that won't come out was going on. 

Honestly could say this for pretty much all of our receiving options.

• Kincaid - revealed torn PCL and other knee injuries that he was playing through
• Coleman - missed several games and simply didn't look like the same player once he returned
• Cooper - rumors of him having to spend a ton of time with the training staff/weirdly underutilized (could maybe explain it as we went run-heavy and he's not as good a run blocker as Mack and Coleman but I'm skeptical that's the real reason)
• Samuel - turf toe or whatever it was that he had in the preseason is notoriously a nagging injury and particular important for his specific skill set and he was not moving like his usual self for like 80% of the season

Entirely possible and maybe even likely that Kincaid and Coleman just aren't going to pan out the way we hoped, Cooper is over the hill, and Samuel just isn't as good as we thought he was, but there's at least a chance that all of them look much better next season.

 

I assume Kincaid, Coleman, and Samuel will all be back and be given decent opportunity to prove themselves. Cooper probably walking but we'll see.

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It was a wasted challenge to me because of the defensive holding penalty. Even if you win that challenge they still get a first down in the red zone. 

5 yards vs 26 yards is a big difference.

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

5 yards vs 26 yards is a big difference.

So would another minute off the clock in that situation. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

So would another minute off the clock in that situation. 

 

Could've been 4 points off the board too though.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

101 yrds, TD vs 12 yards.  Not much of a comparison, add on the fact that soo many of us knew this would happen when we traded them the pick.  Just a bone head move by Beane any kind if way you want to spin it