Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy

[Alphadawg7]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

so I guess what I’m saying is those situations are more similar than you are trying to frame them.

 

The expectation wasn’t for Worthy to be the man before the season. The Chiefs had a slew of injuries and eventually traded for DHop.

 

The expectation for Keon wasn’t to be the man before the season. The Bills had a couple of their FAs not pan out and injuries and eventually traded for Cooper.

 

What I said was that both rookies had the OPPORTUNITY to be the guy, because of injuries/their situation with the other WR’s on their team, and both teams eventually traded for more WR’s. Which is true. If Worthy was having a Tyreek Hill season, I’m not sure they trade for DHop. If Keon was playing like rookie JJ, I’m not sure the Bills trade for Cooper.

That’s what I’m saying lol

 

Still you are making this about Keon being the guy or not though, and it wasn't.  Many people, and I would say you too, spoke about and criticized Beane and the WR group as if Beane was totally done at WR.  It was never he was done, it was we had $31M in dead money at WR, and he had an entire roster to fill out in what was a transition year.   

 

Beane has also repeatedly said there will never be a year they are "not" trying to win it all.  When the team showed it had a legitimate chance to compete for a SB this year and that coincided with an affordable veteran coming available, he was obviously going to be interested.  And a major reason we made the move for Cooper was because of his contract at that point in the season too.  

 

So no, I don't agree that the situation was similar with KC and us.  KC had a slew of injuries, doesn't matter how good or bad Worthy was, they needed to make a move to get another healthy quality player as they were back to using a bum like Skyy Moore the week before DHop.  And in Buffalo, it wasn't that Keon had not become the man, it was that Beane saw an opportunity to add to our team under our current cap situation that could help this team compete for a SB this season.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Still you are making this about Keon being the guy or not though, and it wasn't.  Many people, and I would say you too, spoke about and criticized Beane and the WR group as if Beane was totally done at WR.  It was never he was done, it was we had $31M in dead money at WR, and he had an entire roster to fill out in what was a transition year.   

 

Beane has also repeatedly said there will never be a year they are "not" trying to win it all.  When the team showed it had a legitimate chance to compete for a SB this year and that coincided with an affordable veteran coming available, he was obviously going to be interested.  And a major reason we made the move for Cooper was because of his contract at that point in the season too.  

 

So no, I don't agree that the situation was similar with KC and us.  KC had a slew of injuries, doesn't matter how good or bad Worthy was, they needed to make a move to get another healthy quality player as they were back to using a bum like Skyy Moore the week before DHop.  And in Buffalo, it wasn't that Keon had not become the man, it was that Beane saw an opportunity to add to our team under our current cap situation that could help this team compete for a SB this season.  

 

 

 

 

I like how you spin it as if Beane only acquired Cooper because it was convenient.   He was desperate for a boundary WR1 type after those showings in Baltimore and Houston.   

[gonzo1105]

All things considered I think the Bills are going with the Green Bay model when it comes to pass catchers. No real true # 1 WR but a slew of guys you can put on the field and catch the football. I don't think the Bills work is done when it comes to the WR position. I fully expect them to add another young guy fairly early in the draft next year to go with Coleman's selection this year.

 

I don't expect Cooper to be resigned but I could be wrong on that for sure. The positive of the trade if the don't resign him is yea you gave up a 3rd but everyone has to remember that we got a 5th rounder back and if he does leave, we will most likely get a 4th or 5th rounder in return for him in 2026 in the form of a compensatory pick. Thats why the trade makes a lot of sense to do both in the short term and long term structure of the football team.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

For the Bills, I'd describe it as "We have one guy that can be a threat outside and he's a rookie; we're going to need one more"

And frankly, I think that their offseason plan was to fill that hole with a vet WR at the deadline all along, and we were all freaking out about nothing because they were playing a longer game than fans can hack.

 

 

Who is we?   There was a large contingent that believed what the Bills had at WR going into the season was going to be enough.   The easiest WR prediction of the summer was that Beane would be desperately searching for a WR1 in October.   

[Rocky Landing]

I mentioned earlier in the season that for all Worthy’s speed, he is one of the easiest WRs in the league to tackle. I think he’s also one of the easiest to knock out of a timing route. 
 

As far as Reid playing him early as a method of “trolling,” I suspect there is some truth to that, and I have zero problem with it. Getting in your opponent’s head is part of the game, and I suppose that includes getting into your opponent’s fanbase’s head as well, when you’re playing in their stadium. 
 

And it really shouldn’t be any surprise that his production dropped after the half. Reid know exactly what he has in Worthy, and he got about as much as could be expected in that game. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Still you are making this about Keon being the guy or not though, and it wasn't.

You should read the post I quoted to start this discussion.

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Beane got lucky that the Browns were selling and Cooper had that cheap base salary.

 

I'm curious in what way Beane got lucky.

 

There were numerous wide receiver-needy teams and Cooper landed with the Bills.

 

Where is luck in this?

 

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I'm curious in what way Beane got lucky.

 

There were numerous wide receiver-needy teams and Cooper landed with the Bills.

 

Where is luck in this?

 

Lucky to have a WR of that quality available with such a low base salary that Beane was able to absorb his contract.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I don't think KC needs Worthy to develop into a WR1. I think they would be fine if he's a quality WR2 who adds some field stretching, big play, and gadget ability. I think they would be happy if he is a consistent 800-900 yard player on 50ish catches with 6-8 TD's. I think they likely hope that long term Rice is their WR1 and Worthy is their WR2. My main issue with Worthy is that I think he's going to have a hard time staying on the field. I think as he gets used more his durability is going to be an issue. 

Has he missed time in the 10 games he has played ? 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

What I would like o know is how worth go so wide open. I am not sure I have every seen a NFL receiver so wide open without totally blown coverage, it was an easy TD had that throw been better.  I would like to know how he got so wide open and it is more that "he is fast".

 

I can't be sure but looks to me like Benford was supposed to get depth and carry him downfield. Benford and Dorian Williams both give their attention to the RB out of the flat which probably should not happen. Rapp is the safety on that side of the field but he is spinning to the middle with his back to that sideline so clearly he is not responsible for that side of the field at all. Benford is the only one who looks to me like he has no obvious responsibility on that play, he kind of just hangs out with eyes on the flat even though Williams is watching it too, which makes me think he blew the call. Like I said I can't say for sure though.

[NickelCity]

7 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

They couldn’t afford to spend a first round pick on a player like that imo especially when it downgraded one of their other early picks.  We roughed them up in the trenches and they’ve been trying pretty hard to fix the offensive tackle problem and still have not gotten it right.  Corner seems like a bit of a sore spot for them too there just isn’t a ton of depth anywhere and nazeeh johnson looks pretty bad.  You shouldn’t be dropping off to a terrible corner because of a single injury.  Mcduffie needs help teams can just avoid him now and still be successful. I don’t particularly understand the karlaftis hype either he looks pretty ok to me they could use an upgrade there cuz their other DEs aren’t good. Maybe uche works out for them we’ll see 
 

rice honestly may never be the same on top of all that…he’s likely gonna get slapped with a suspension right after he’s finally healthy and missing that much football usually doesn’t go super well 

 

I think worthy will be a fine player but it was a stupid pick and gifting your rival a 3rd rounder to make it was pretty idiotic.  It was a luxury pick with an outside shot at maybe he develops into a complete player made in a situation where they couldn’t really afford to do that…lots of other holes 
 

 It’s way too early to judge but the chiefs 2024 draft is leaning towards pretty terrible at this point.  Suamataia going from starting to benched to not even active is brutal and their third round pick went to us. Wiley looked pretty terrible in preseason but you never know 

 

 

 

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

All things considered I think the Bills are going with the Green Bay model when it comes to pass catchers. No real true # 1 WR but a slew of guys you can put on the field and catch the football. I don't think the Bills work is done when it comes to the WR position. I fully expect them to add another young guy fairly early in the draft next year to go with Coleman's selection this year.

 

I don't expect Cooper to be resigned but I could be wrong on that for sure. The positive of the trade if the don't resign him is yea you gave up a 3rd but everyone has to remember that we got a 5th rounder back and if he does leave, we will most likely get a 4th or 5th rounder in return for him in 2026 in the form of a compensatory pick. Thats why the trade makes a lot of sense to do both in the short term and long term structure of the football team.

With the number of Championships GB has racked up with this WR model, who could blame them?

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I like how you spin it as if Beane only acquired Cooper because it was convenient.   He was desperate for a boundary WR1 type after those showings in Baltimore and Houston.   

 

I didn't spin anything, and I didn't say it was just because it was "convenient".  But, I 100% guarantee you that if Cleveland does not agree to the Cooper deal then Beane doesn't make a trade for any of the other guys who were traded.  Beane himself even discussed how Coopers contract made it possible for them to pursue him, and its why they were the ones pursuing Cooper from Cleveland who was initially not interested in shopping or trading him.  

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I can't be sure but looks to me like Benford was supposed to get depth and carry him downfield. Benford and Dorian Williams both give their attention to the RB out of the flat which probably should not happen. Rapp is the safety on that side of the field but he is spinning to the middle with his back to that sideline so clearly he is not responsible for that side of the field at all. Benford is the only one who looks to me like he has no obvious responsibility on that play, he kind of just hangs out with eyes on the flat even though Williams is watching it too, which makes me think he blew the call. Like I said I can't say for sure though.

 

Yea was a breakdown somewhere between Benford and Rapp. It is a classic cover 2 beater that play precisely because it attacks the region of the field where the corner passes off to the safety but you are right it looks like Benford never plays it as his assignment and Rapp isn't even looking. Definitely a play where the Bills got lucky that the Chiefs didn't execute. There were a couple of those for each team.

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I like how you spin it as if Beane only acquired Cooper because it was convenient.   He was desperate for a boundary WR1 type after those showings in Baltimore and Houston.   

Also points to the advantage of playing good teams that can exploit your biggest weaknesses early in the season.  Beane was fortunate that someone of Cooper's ability was available for around 800k.  It's not enough to excuse his neglect at that position the previous two off-seasons imo.  It should be a dark spot on his resume.

[Kelly to Allen]

38 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Also points to the advantage of playing good teams that can exploit your biggest weaknesses early in the season.  Beane was fortunate that someone of Cooper's ability was available for around 800k.  It's not enough to excuse his neglect at that position the previous two off-seasons imo.  It should be a dark spot on his resume.

I mean to be fair if diggs wasn't a head case this wouldn't be such a issue. Especially if we still drafted Coleman. 

 

 

As long as Benford, Johnson, Douglas and Elam stay healthy, similar to KCs cb play last year, the chiefs wrs or Kelce won't be able to do anything vs us in the playoffs. They don't have the horses and Rousseau, Oliver and Von Miller will be too much in passing situations. 

 

 

Edited November 19 by Kelly to Allen

[starrymessenger]

I noticed a big difference between Cooper's introductory pressure and his post KC interview. For a guy who doesn't really show much emotion I got the impression that he is starting to enjoy being on this team. He says it's the first time he's experienced joy in a long time. I think he'd like it even more if he got a ring. Probably the numbers can't be made to work but it would be great if he could close out his career with the Bills (and mentor his replacement). It's been a long time since I've seen a Bills receiver track a ball in the air the way he did on Sunday. 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 I 100% guarantee you that if Cleveland does not agree to the Cooper deal then Beane doesn't make a trade for any of the other guys who were traded. 

 

Wrong.   They needed a WR1 and were clearly desperate for it.   They paid Cleveland a premium for having eaten that cap hit.   Had Cooper from Cleveland not been an option they would have pivoted to Hopkins or even Diontae Johnson who were subsequently acquired for day 3 compensation.   The Bills would have had to pay more to get those teams to take on cap hit or they would have had to make their own re-structuring to make it work.   But after Allen got his skull bounced off the turf hard in back to back games with the passing game in utter disarray they were going to get someone to make teams respect the boundary.

 

https://www.instagram.com/realdanmitchell/reel/DA1HcM7RXIW/

 

Edited November 19 by BADOLBILZ

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Wrong.   They needed a WR1 and were clearly desperate for it.   They paid Cleveland a premium for having eaten that cap hit.   Had Cooper from Cleveland not been an option they would have pivoted to Hopkins or even Diontae Johnson who were subsequently acquired for day 3 compensation.   The Bills would have had to pay more to get those teams to take on cap hit or they would have had to make their own re-structuring to make it work.   But after Allen got his skull bounced off the turf hard in back to back games with the passing game in utter disarray they were going to get someone to make teams respect the boundary.

 

https://www.instagram.com/realdanmitchell/reel/DA1HcM7RXIW/

 

 

It wasn't about the draft compensation, it was what they were owed the rest of the season.  He was never trading for Hopkins or Adams (unless Raiders were eating his contract, which they weren't).  I will give you Diontae though as possibility as Carolina gave him away for free eating his salary for just a 17 pick improvement in a later round pick swap.  But I was never sold Beane would have been interested in DJ from a character standpoint or fit.  

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It wasn't about the draft compensation, it was what they were owed the rest of the season.  He was never trading for Hopkins or Adams (unless Raiders were eating his contract, which they weren't).  I will give you Diontae though as possibility as Carolina gave him away for free eating his salary for just a 17 pick improvement in a later round pick swap.  But I was never sold Beane would have been interested in DJ from a character standpoint or fit.  

 

 

They were getting a boundary WR one way or another.   Apparently everyone knew it except you.   Beane admitted he was in on Adams but the Jets paid the price AND ate the money.   No doubt if Cooper wasn't going to be traded then Hopkins is a Bill before KC loses Rice and has to pay as much as they did.   That 5 that becomes a 4 from KC would have been a 3 that becomes a 2 from Buffalo.......or a 2 for Hopkins and a day 3 pick.   You don't put your MVP level young QB's health and career in conflict over a day 2 pick.  

 

Also how did you like that go ball they threw to Shakir against KC?   Total waste of a down.  He kinda' looks like a 5'7" RB running a go route once he gets that far downfield, doesn't he?  He's excellent at what he does but that ain't it.    This is why not getting help on the boundary was not an option despite the likelihood all along that Shakir would put up 900 or so yards.