Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This was the knock on him coming out. Long way to go but I think his ceiling might be automatically capped by his size. Still a scary player in that offense though.

 

I was never convinced he was a vertical guy despite the speed and his struggles getting off press were a big part of that. They need to be using him on more horizontal stuff - getting the ball in his hands and asking him to make guys miss. They have the exact same issue we had before last week. Forcing their rook into a spot he isn't ideally suited to because they simply have nobody else to do it. 

[Jauronimo]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's clearly this guy.

 

Thats some championship caliber clapping.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 

Haha I do think he’s a great offensive mind but the clock management thing and people completely ignoring his decades with the eagles is absolutely spot on. The guy was a game management disaster and always getting dunked on by his own fans and really anyone 🤣. All this talk that he is some wide receiver whisperer and never misses on draft picks kind of gets me too…he’s overseen/coached some absolute head scratcher picks over the years 

 

Belichick calling Freddie Mitchell ‘terrible and you can print that’ in the lead up to that pats eagles Super Bowl was one of my favorite things ever haha 

 

 

As far as being an offensive mind.........Reid is a watered down version of Mike Holmgren who was, himself, a lesser version of Bill Walsh.    I have always appreciated what Reid does running an organization,  he's a very good HC and it was a shame the Bills couldn't have gotten him after Philly fired him.   But IMO, as an offensive mind there are those on the high end who could do more with what he's had.  And then on the lower end there are guys who I think could take poor personnel and get more out of them.   I mean, if I am stuck with a Tyler Thigpen at QB I think I'd take Chan Gailey as my OC over Andy.

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

#1 for me is Joe Gibbs.   He was the Air Coryell Chargers offensive coordinator in the late 1970's and turned Dan Fouts from a dud into an All Pro and then won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's with the Redskins.  None of them HOF'ers.  He probably could have won a SB with Jay Schroeder too if he could have stayed healthy.  

Gibbs is maybe the most underrated HC in terms of the all time greats.  You always hear about Landry, Lombardi, Walsh, Belichick, Parcells, etc.  But Gibbs doesn’t get enough respect in terms of his place in the all time great conversation often enough.  IMHO he has a strong case for top 5 HC all time.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Gibbs is maybe the most underrated HC in terms of the all time greats.  You always hear about Landry, Lombardi, Walsh, Belichick, Parcells, etc.  But Gibbs doesn’t get enough respect in terms of his place in the all time great conversation often enough.  IMHO he has a strong case for top 5 HC all time.  

 

 

He soiled his reputation significantly when he came back and his heart wasn't in it.   But for a 15 year period he was outworking AND outsmarting everyone in the NFL.   His teams were snake-bit with injuries year after year otherwise they probably win 5 or so.    Parcells was a great HC in his own right but he probably never wins one at all if Gibbs teams have their health.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I love traits as much as the next guy, and he had production in college.  I do like what they got in keon specifically for josh though.

 

Adding him and kincaid gave him traits guys in a different way - big bodies (punish defenders and break tackles as a way to create YAC), good hands (kincaids are massive, but both he and keon have plus hands - shakir also has big hands for his size), big catch radiuses (both have 32+ inch arm lengths, but its the ability to catch away from their bodies that is really impressive).  

[MikePJ76]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He soiled his reputation significantly when he came back and his heart wasn't in it.   But for a 15 year period he was outworking AND outsmarting everyone in the NFL.   His teams were snake-bit with injuries year after year otherwise they probably win 5 or so.    Parcells was a great HC in his own right but he probably never wins one at all if Gibbs teams have their health.  

I love Gibbs.  

 

Saying Parcells never wins one if the skins have their health is beyond a stretch.  Gibbs skins teams won two super bowls in strike shortened seasons.  That matters.

 

You can easily flip this statement and point out if the Giants had caught a few breaks they win a third, i mean they got a bad Pass Interference call on them in overtime vs the Rams at home in 89.  That setup a game winning TD from Everret to Flipper anderson who scored and ran down the tunnel, one of those great post season moments.  

 

I am pretty sure the 1989 49ers who are in the conversation of greatest teams of all time did not want any part of the Giants.  I guess you could say if the giants win in 89 they probably do not in 90 since they were so motivated to makeup for the horrible loss to the rams in 89.

 

Having said that the 91 Redskins are the most dominant team I have ever watched, more than the 85 bears, 89 niners, 07 pats etc.  They were good at everything.  Their only loss involved Dallas recovering an onsides kick and scoring a TD on essentially a Hail Mary.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

Chiefs drafted Skyy Moore in the 2nd, Mecole Hardman and Xavier Worthy in the 1st...seems like they aren't very good at selecting WR's. Which is head scratching considering Reid is an offensive mastermind who you would think  should know as well as anyone in the league who would fit well into his system.

 

Rashee Rice in the 2nd and Tyreek Hill in the 5th have been by far their best WR selections under Reid.

 

Others:

Tremon Smith 2018 6th Rd - 0 receptions

Jehu Chesson 2017 4th Rd - 3 receptions, 25 yards

Demarcus Robinson 2016 4th Rd - 232 receptions, 2706 yards, 21 TDs in 136 games

Chris Conley 2015 3rd Rd - 221 receptions, 2926 yards, 15 TDs in 123 games

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Big Turk

[MikePJ76]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Chiefs drafted Skyy Moore in the 2nd, Mecole Hardman and Xavier Worthy in the 1st...seems like they aren't very good at selecting WR's. Which is head scratching considering Reid is an offensive mastermind who you would think  should know as well as anyone in the league who would fit well into his system.

 

Rashee Rice in the 2nd and Tyreek Hill in the 5th have been by far their best WR selections under Reid.

 

Others:

Tremon Smith 2018 6th Rd - 0 receptions

Jehu Chesson 2017 4th Rd - 3 receptions, 25 yards

Demarcus Robinson 2016 4th Rd - 232 receptions, 2706 yards, 21 TDs in 136 games

Chris Conley 2015 3rd Rd - 221 receptions, 2926 yards, 15 TDs in 123 games

 

Andy reid's teams have always won because they are great on the line of scrimmage.  That is how he builds all his teams.  The chiefs are just like the eagles in the 00's.  Great on the line of scrimmage, excellent defense that plays fast hits hard and gets good play out of a tough position in safety.   Both teams had great kickers and DC's. 

 

The difference in KC is better qb play in clutch situations.  

 

I always thought the eagles had it easy until parcells and coughlin showed up in the nfc east.  Those first few years where Reid and Johnson got them going they were playing some of the worst teams ever in Dallas and Washington.  The giants had a good season and made the super bowl in 00 but were never really that good.  Once Parcells rebuilt Dallas, Coughlin built the giants and even Gibbs showing up in 04, Reids dominance was never really the same.  They peaked in 04 and were chasing from there out.  Never got it. 

 

Reid was a big part of the failures with his late game screw ups and time issues (which cost him his job).    I can't stand the guy and I can't stand anyone associated with those 90's packers.  Giant collection of scumbags, reid included.

Edited 4 hours ago by MikePJ76

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Andy reid's teams have always won because they are great on the line of scrimmage.  That is how he builds all his teams.  The chiefs are just like the eagles in the 00's.  Great on the line of scrimmage, excellent defense that plays fast hits hard and gets good play out of a tough position in safety.   Both teams had great kickers and DC's. 

 

The difference in KC is better qb play in clutch situations.  

 

I always thought the eagles had it easy until parcells and coughlin showed up in the nfc east.  Those first few years where Reid and Johnson got them going they were playing some of the worst teams ever in Dallas and Washington.  The giants had a good season and made the super bowl in 00 but were never really that good.  Once Parcells rebuilt Dallas, Coughlin built the giants and even Gibbs showing up in 04, Reids dominance was never really the same.  They peaked in 04 and were chasing from there out.  Never got it. 

 

Reid was a big part of the failures with his late game screw ups and time issues (which cost him his job).    I can't stand the guy and I can't stand anyone associated with those 90's packers.  Giant collection of scumbags, reid included.

 

This does not seem to be anything other than some weird personal vendetta you have against Reid because I can't think of anyone who has spoken badly about him and if there are it hasn't been many...most former players love the guy and have effusively praised him as have most other coaches that worked with him.

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

This does not seem to be anything other than some weird personal vendetta you have against Reid because I can't think of anyone who has spoken badly about him and if there are it hasn't been many...most former players love the guy and have effusively praised him as have most other coaches that worked with him.

It is.  I hate him.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Chiefs drafted Skyy Moore in the 2nd, Mecole Hardman and Xavier Worthy in the 1st...seems like they aren't very good at selecting WR's. Which is head scratching considering Reid is an offensive mastermind who you would think  should know as well as anyone in the league who would fit well into his system.

 

Rashee Rice in the 2nd and Tyreek Hill in the 5th have been by far their best WR selections under Reid.

 

Others:

Tremon Smith 2018 6th Rd - 0 receptions

Jehu Chesson 2017 4th Rd - 3 receptions, 25 yards

Demarcus Robinson 2016 4th Rd - 232 receptions, 2706 yards, 21 TDs in 136 games

Chris Conley 2015 3rd Rd - 221 receptions, 2926 yards, 15 TDs in 123 games

 

He/the gm straight up bungled three 1st-2nd round wr picks early on in Philly too that probably cost them a Super Bowl or two.
 

The guy is obviously a great coach but this whole ‘every time he has his eyes on a wr they are guaranteed to be great’ stuff definitely went way too far haha his wr hit rate isn’t significantly better than anyone else’s especially if you factor in some of the free agents/players acquired through trades 
 

Edited 4 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As far as being an offensive mind.........Reid is a watered down version of Mike Holmgren who was, himself, a lesser version of Bill Walsh.    I have always appreciated what Reid does running an organization,  he's a very good HC and it was a shame the Bills couldn't have gotten him after Philly fired him.   But IMO, as an offensive mind there are those on the high end who could do more with what he's had.  And then on the lower end there are guys who I think could take poor personnel and get more out of them.   I mean, if I am stuck with a Tyler Thigpen at QB I think I'd take Chan Gailey as my OC over Andy.

 

I don't put Reid in the Bill Walsh category but what current offensive minds do you rate ahead of Reid?  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

It is.  I hate him.  

 

I used to think I did. Turns out I hate the Eagles. Once Reid moved on I had zero strong feelings on him.

[MikePJ76]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I used to think I did. Turns out I hate the Eagles. Once Reid moved on I had zero strong feelings on him.

I hate them both.  I remember when they came out in 05 and jumped up and down on the Falcons logo before the game like they had been doing for awhile but it was monday night and the MNF broadcast showed it and after Andy Reid was like I don't know anything about it.  

 

That is who he is to me.  I just hate him.

[K-9]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was never convinced he was a vertical guy despite the speed and his struggles getting off press were a big part of that. They need to be using him on more horizontal stuff - getting the ball in his hands and asking him to make guys miss. They have the exact same issue we had before last week. Forcing their rook into a spot he isn't ideally suited to because they simply have nobody else to do it. 

Worthy’s limitations were obvious when watching his college body of work. More than a few of us said before the draft that he has to be an off ball receiver to be effective because he’s too easily disrupted with press coverage. He’s weak and light as a feather and straight ahead speed just isn’t enough to overcome that. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He/the gm straight up bungled three 1st-2nd round wr picks early on in Philly too that probably cost them a Super Bowl or two.
 

The guy is obviously a great coach but this whole ‘every time he has his eyes on a wr they are guaranteed to be great’ stuff definitely went way too far haha his wr hit rate isn’t significantly better than anyone else’s especially if you factor in some of the free agents/players acquired through trades 
 

 

Andy Reid's chiefs in 2014 had 0 TD passes to WRs.  From a WR development standpoint i don't know how much worse you can do 🙂

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Chiefs drafted Skyy Moore in the 2nd, Mecole Hardman and Xavier Worthy in the 1st...seems like they aren't very good at selecting WR's. Which is head scratching considering Reid is an offensive mastermind who you would think  should know as well as anyone in the league who would fit well into his system.

 

Rashee Rice in the 2nd and Tyreek Hill in the 5th have been by far their best WR selections under Reid.

 

Others:

Tremon Smith 2018 6th Rd - 0 receptions

Jehu Chesson 2017 4th Rd - 3 receptions, 25 yards

Demarcus Robinson 2016 4th Rd - 232 receptions, 2706 yards, 21 TDs in 136 games

Chris Conley 2015 3rd Rd - 221 receptions, 2926 yards, 15 TDs in 123 games

 

They’ve missed on receivers for sure. Worthy is their first round #1 receiver pick though. Hardman was a 2nd round pick. They seem to hit on OLine and defense more.