Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

it was just as much a bad throw by mahomes as it was a bad play by worthy…he really shouldn’t have been forced into dragging his feet on an absolutely wide open completion to begin with which im sure Reid knows 

 

Nah that's a catch an NFL receiver has to make every time. The nature of the route is that the throw will lead him towards the sideline. Mahomes put the ball right where it needed to be, Worthy just has to do the simple thing and drag his other foot.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nah that's a catch an NFL receiver has to make every time. The nature of the route is that the throw will lead him towards the sideline. Mahomes put the ball right where it needed to be, Worthy just has to do the simple thing and drag his other foot.

That has to be a difficult adjustment for WRs and other pass catchers when coming into the league. For your whole playing life, one foot was enough. That's a lot of muscle memory to break. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 minute ago, Low Positive said:

That has to be a difficult adjustment for WRs and other pass catchers when coming into the league. For your whole playing life, one foot was enough. That's a lot of muscle memory to break. 

That’s why Keon is better suited for the NFL than Worthy.  He’s too slow to not get both feet in bounds.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nah that's a catch an NFL receiver has to make every time. The nature of the route is that the throw will lead him towards the sideline. Mahomes put the ball right where it needed to be, Worthy just has to do the simple thing and drag his other foot.

Oh yea he should’ve made it for sure but mahomes could’ve made his life easier. There’s no way Reid benched him over that is the context I was bringing that up in

39 minutes ago, Saxum said:

 

Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes Discuss Xavier Worthy's Latest Sideline Miscue in Loss to Bills

Xavier Worthy was a star early in the Chiefs' loss to the Bills, but he didn't see the ball again after another sideline miscue.

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/game-day/andy-reid-patrick-mahomes-discuss-xavier-worthy-latest-sideline-miscue-in-loss-to-bills

 

Where in that article does it say that play impacted worthy’s playing time at all?  That was what I was objecting to in your post.  He led the chiefs wrs in snaps.  If anyone had unexpectedly low snaps it was Hopkins honestly.  He should’ve made the play but mahomes could’ve made his life a bit easier so there’s no way he was benched over it 

Edited Monday at 07:00 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Couldn’t you say something similar about Coleman pre-Cooper?

 

No.  

[Alphadawg7]

Worthy is never going to be what some people around here want him to be so they can be right about their outrage on draft night.  Its as simple as that.  

 

He is fast and plays with Mahomes and Reid...so he will have opportunities to make some plays.  But the odds he was ever going to be a WR1 type player are as low now as they were prior to the draft.  

 

It was funny watching the Worthy trolls puff up in the first half then shutup in the 2nd.  Its as predictable as the sun setting around here.  Even seeing some comments here about how we "got lucky" he didn't get that other foot down or he would have had 100 yards.  Silly argument all around...reminds me about all the McKenzie defenders spouting off about his 11 catch game against the Pats as if that wasn't more an anomaly than a regular occurrence.  

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Reid said he benched worthy? Haha I have to see this because he certainly didn’t bench him for any meaningful amount of time and a rewatch of the game/ snap count sheet is immediate proof 

it was just as much a bad throw by mahomes as it was a bad play by worthy…he really shouldn’t have been forced into dragging his feet on an absolutely wide open completion to begin with which im sure Reid knows 

I agree, it was a terrible throw by Mahomes.  He too a MAJOR hit in the Mahomes is MVP of the league hit yesterday.

 

What I would like o know is how worth go so wide open. I am not sure I have every seen a NFL receiver so wide open without totally blown coverage, it was an easy TD had that throw been better.  I would like to know how he got so wide open and it is more that "he is fast".

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Worthy is never going to be what some people around here want him to be so they can be right about their outrage on draft night.  Its as simple as that.  

 

He is fast and plays with Mahomes and Reid...so he will have opportunities to make some plays.  But the odds he was ever going to be a WR1 type player are as low now as they were prior to the draft.  

 

It was funny watching the Worthy trolls puff up in the first half then shutup in the 2nd.  Its as predictable as the sun setting around here.  Even seeing some comments here about how we "got lucky" he didn't get that other foot down or he would have had 100 yards.  Silly argument all around...reminds me about all the McKenzie defenders spouting off about his 11 catch game against the Pats as if that wasn't more an anomaly than a regular occurrence.  

I’m excited for the all 22…seemed like the bills went with a lot more man than usual at first glance and for a mcd defense to do that to you he’s really gotta not have much respect for worthy/hopkins/etc at all 

 

that was the big thing for me and why this ‘but it wasn’t the playoffs’ type stuff makes my eyes roll.  If cam lewis can man up Kelce and Torrence can hold up decent without help against Chris jones, I don’t really see an obvious pathway to get to this supposedly unstoppable playoff chiefs mode that they allegedly have lol 

[billsfan89]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Worthy is never going to be what some people around here want him to be so they can be right about their outrage on draft night.  Its as simple as that.  

 

He is fast and plays with Mahomes and Reid...so he will have opportunities to make some plays.  But the odds he was ever going to be a WR1 type player are as low now as they were prior to the draft.  

 

It was funny watching the Worthy trolls puff up in the first half then shutup in the 2nd.  Its as predictable as the sun setting around here.  Even seeing some comments here about how we "got lucky" he didn't get that other foot down or he would have had 100 yards.  Silly argument all around...reminds me about all the McKenzie defenders spouting off about his 11 catch game against the Pats as if that wasn't more an anomaly than a regular occurrence.  

 

I don't think KC needs Worthy to develop into a WR1. I think they would be fine if he's a quality WR2 who adds some field stretching, big play, and gadget ability. I think they would be happy if he is a consistent 800-900 yard player on 50ish catches with 6-8 TD's. I think they likely hope that long term Rice is their WR1 and Worthy is their WR2. My main issue with Worthy is that I think he's going to have a hard time staying on the field. I think as he gets used more his durability is going to be an issue. 

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No.  

I mean, kinda, right?

 

Both Coleman and Worthy had the opportunity to be the “man” outside through the first couple weeks of the season, and by the trade deadline, both teams decided to trade for another outside WR which in theory would take some of the pressure off them.

 

How else would you describe the scenario that preceded the Cooper/DHop trades?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

34 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I don't think KC needs Worthy to develop into a WR1. I think they would be fine if he's a quality WR2 who adds some field stretching, big play, and gadget ability. I think they would be happy if he is a consistent 800-900 yard player on 50ish catches with 6-8 TD's. I think they likely hope that long term Rice is their WR1 and Worthy is their WR2. My main issue with Worthy is that I think he's going to have a hard time staying on the field. I think as he gets used more his durability is going to be an issue. 

They couldn’t afford to spend a first round pick on a player like that imo especially when it downgraded one of their other early picks.  We roughed them up in the trenches and they’ve been trying pretty hard to fix the offensive tackle problem and still have not gotten it right.  Corner seems like a bit of a sore spot for them too there just isn’t a ton of depth anywhere and nazeeh johnson looks pretty bad.  You shouldn’t be dropping off to a terrible corner because of a single injury.  Mcduffie needs help teams can just avoid him now and still be successful. I don’t particularly understand the karlaftis hype either he looks pretty ok to me they could use an upgrade there cuz their other DEs aren’t good. Maybe uche works out for them we’ll see 
 

rice honestly may never be the same on top of all that…he’s likely gonna get slapped with a suspension right after he’s finally healthy and missing that much football usually doesn’t go super well 

 

I think worthy will be a fine player but it was a stupid pick and gifting your rival a 3rd rounder to make it was pretty idiotic.  It was a luxury pick with an outside shot at maybe he develops into a complete player made in a situation where they couldn’t really afford to do that…lots of other holes 
 

 It’s way too early to judge but the chiefs 2024 draft is leaning towards pretty terrible at this point.  Suamataia going from starting to benched to not even active is brutal and their third round pick went to us. Wiley looked pretty terrible in preseason but you never know 

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:29 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

seemed like the bills went with a lot more man than usual

If that's true it makes the Elam situation even more mysterious.  Was there ever any explanation as to why he was inactive?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I don't think KC needs Worthy to develop into a WR1. I think they would be fine if he's a quality WR2 who adds some field stretching, big play, and gadget ability. I think they would be happy if he is a consistent 800-900 yard player on 50ish catches with 6-8 TD's. I think they likely hope that long term Rice is their WR1 and Worthy is their WR2. My main issue with Worthy is that I think he's going to have a hard time staying on the field. I think as he gets used more his durability is going to be an issue. 

 

I agree, he wasn't drafted to be a WR1 in KC...we were on the other hand looking for a WR with WR1 type potential.  Worthy was never a logical choice for the Bills while he made a lot of sense for a team like KC, Dallas, etc. 

 

Not only will Worthy potentially struggle to stay on the field, he is also going to struggle in phsyical games and games when the weather negates his speed too.  

 

But he will make plays in KC, he has an elite QB and a creative offensive mind in Reid.  But, Worthy was never someone who should have been our pick.  

[Simon]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

How else would you describe the scenario that preceded the Cooper/DHop trades?

 

For the Bills, I'd describe it as "We have one guy that can be a threat outside and he's a rookie; we're going to need one more"

And frankly, I think that their offseason plan was to fill that hole with a vet WR at the deadline all along, and we were all freaking out about nothing because they were playing a longer game than fans can hack.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I mean, kinda, right?

 

Both Coleman and Worthy had the opportunity to be the “man” outside through the first couple weeks of the season, and by the trade deadline, both teams decided to trade for another outside WR which in theory would take some of the pressure off them.

 

How else would you describe the scenario that preceded the Cooper/DHop trades?

 

KC traded for a DHop because they had no WR's left and Worthy isn't a lead WR player and wasn't drafted to be one in the first place. 

 

Buffalo was never done at WR despite so many freakouts this offseason as if we were.  MVS and Samuel were providing nothing, and Shakir getting hurt showed we were an injury away from real struggles.  It was not a reactionary move directly relating to Keon not being "the man" yet, who by the way had already started to show plenty of potential before the trade.  And 100% of Keons production in Coopers first game was while Cooper was on the sidelines.  

 

For you to try and pin the move on it somehow being tied to Keon and some failure to be "the man" is just inaccurate IMHO. Especially since no one with the Bills drafted Keon with the expectation he would rise to be "the man" WR1 as a rookie.

Edited Monday at 10:40 PM by Alphadawg7

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I mean, kinda, right?

 

Both Coleman and Worthy had the opportunity to be the “man” outside through the first couple weeks of the season, and by the trade deadline, both teams decided to trade for another outside WR which in theory would take some of the pressure off them.

 

How else would you describe the scenario that preceded the Cooper/DHop trades?

Chiefs wouldn't have traded for DHop if Rice doesn't get injured.  Beane got lucky that the Browns were selling and Cooper had that cheap base salary.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Per Reception Perception charting:

 

Alingment

60.5% outside

31.5% slot

8.0% backfield

 

Success Rates

Against-Man: 55.6% (Below Avg.)

Against-Press: 40.0% (Bad)

Against-Zone: 76.1% (Acceptable)

 

33.3% success on contested catches.

38.5% of his targets in are open space.

100% first contact makes tackle

 

6 Targets per Game = 3 rpg for 34 yards

 

Runs posts, corners, then slants and screens in order. Data says he needs more flat routes.

 

68% success rate on slants.

53% on 9 routes.

 

So far profiles similar to Brandon Cooks. 

 

 

[FireChans]

49 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

KC traded for a DHop because they had no WR's left and Worthy isn't a lead WR player and wasn't drafted to be one in the first place. 

 

Buffalo was never done at WR despite so many freakouts this offseason as if we were.  MVS and Samuel were providing nothing, and Shakir getting hurt showed we were an injury away from real struggles.  It was not a reactionary move directly relating to Keon not being "the man" yet, who by the way had already started to show plenty of potential before the trade.  And 100% of Keons production in Coopers first game was while Cooper was on the sidelines.  

 

For you to try and pin the move on it somehow being tied to Keon and some failure to be "the man" is just inaccurate IMHO. Especially since no one with the Bills drafted Keon with the expectation he would rise to be "the man" WR1 as a rookie.

so I guess what I’m saying is those situations are more similar than you are trying to frame them.

 

The expectation wasn’t for Worthy to be the man before the season. The Chiefs had a slew of injuries and eventually traded for DHop.

 

The expectation for Keon wasn’t to be the man before the season. The Bills had a couple of their FAs not pan out and injuries and eventually traded for Cooper.

 

What I said was that both rookies had the OPPORTUNITY to be the guy, because of injuries/their situation with the other WR’s on their team, and both teams eventually traded for more WR’s. Which is true. If Worthy was having a Tyreek Hill season, I’m not sure they trade for DHop. If Keon was playing like rookie JJ, I’m not sure the Bills trade for Cooper.

44 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Chiefs wouldn't have traded for DHop if Rice doesn't get injured.  Beane got lucky that the Browns were selling and Cooper had that cheap base salary.

That’s what I’m saying lol

[FireChans]

57 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

For the Bills, I'd describe it as "We have one guy that can be a threat outside and he's a rookie; we're going to need one more"

And frankly, I think that their offseason plan was to fill that hole with a vet WR at the deadline all along, and we were all freaking out about nothing because they were playing a longer game than fans can hack.

Well that would probably be similar to the the Chiefs plan, seeing as they paid Hollywood Brown in the offseason. 
 

and the Bills may have planned to trade for a new WR all along. It also may have been their backup plan if Hollins/MVS/Samuel didn’t work out. We’ll unfortunately never know that part (although it would fly in the face of some HEATED arguments about if the WR’s were good enough week one lol)
 

What we do know is MVS/Samuel gave Coleman a big opportunity. And the Hollywood Brown/Rice injuries gave Worthy a big opportunity. And both teams looked to give their rookies some help by the trade deadline. 
 

I guess I didn’t see the DHop trade as some major indictment of Worthy, just like I didn’t see the Cooper trade as some major indictment of Coleman.

[atlbillsfan1975]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I never had any ill will toward Andy Reid…….until yesterday. He was clearly trying to rub Worthy in our face. Repeatedly. I don’t think that was pure football strategy, that was being a %$#*. 

 

It would not have upset me to see somebody break that twig. 

Reid is considered some nice guy. I don’t get it. On the other hand, the fact he was thinking about how to troll the Bills instead of trying to call the best plays for his players says a lot about how the Bills are in his head this year. He knows his team is vulnerable. Bills are a nightmare matchup this year for the Chiefs.