KRC Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I keep hearing the statement: "The U.S. needs to be better than the rest of the countries, wrt treatment of detainees and with interrogation techniques." This impolies that we are currently not treating detainees better than the rest. While this statement makes a good soundbyte for the Hot Pockets® crowd, there is no real information backing this up. Even with our faults and media/politically generated hysteria over information which has been proven to be false, are we still better than the rest? For those who feel we are not the best, let's start tossing out real information. I challenge you to find how other countries treat their detainees and interrogate prisoners, and compare it to the U.S. Let's see where we are worse. That way, the above statement will actually have meaning. Are the U.S. troops really similar to Nazi's as alleged by Dick Durbin? Are the U.S. troops running a Soviet-style gulag as alleged by Amnesty International? Without real data to analyze the situation, the above statement is meaningless. If you can make the above statement, then you obviously have enough information to prove this statement true. I have seen this posted many times on this board, so I know that those posters will be the first to provide the information to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Someone hit a nerve this morning Ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Someone hit a nerve this morning Ken? 363037[/snapback] Nope. Just wanted to get real information (yeah, I know I am in the wrong place for that). If we are not the best, prove it. How are we not the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I keep hearing the statement: "The U.S. needs to be better than the rest of the countries, wrt treatment of detainees and with interrogation techniques." This impolies that we are currently not treating detainees better than the rest. While this statement makes a good soundbyte for the Hot Pockets® crowd, there is no real information backing this up. Even with our faults and media/politically generated hysteria over information which has been proven to be false, are we still better than the rest? For those who feel we are not the best, let's start tossing out real information. I challenge you to find how other countries treat their detainees and interrogate prisoners, and compare it to the U.S. Let's see where we are worse. That way, the above statement will actually have meaning. Are the U.S. troops really similar to Nazi's as alleged by Dick Durbin? Are the U.S. troops running a Soviet-style gulag as alleged by Amnesty International? Without real data to analyze the situation, the above statement is meaningless. If you can make the above statement, then you obviously have enough information to prove this statement true. I have seen this posted many times on this board, so I know that those posters will be the first to provide the information to back it up. 363033[/snapback] Durbin's statements were to the effect that the interrogation techniques at Gitmo sounded like something out of the Gulags or concentration camps. Superficially...I'm inclined to agree with him, as being forced to stand for long hours, long night-time interrogations, and generally breaking down someone's identity by controlling every aspect of their movements through the day as common to Gitmo and the Soviet and Nazi prison systems. However - and here's the points where Durbin has his head firmly up his ass - the Gulags and concentration camp systems went FAR beyond just that, including organized and institutionalized physical torture and summary execution...something of which I have yet to see any stories of emerging from Gitmo. Second, the techniques he complains about at Gitmo exist in virtually every prison system in the world...fostering physical and psychological exhaustion in order to break a person down is called interrogation, and I'm sure Durbin would be hard-pressed to find a country where such techniques are even remotely as benign as he'd like to pretend they should be. Third...the Gulags and concentration camps contained anyone who had the teremity to speak out against their respective governments...if Gitmo were truly like those examples, Durbin's ass would be on a secret jet to Cuba right now. The simple fact that he can make that BS comparison in an open forum demonstrates just how much of a BS comparison it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 IMO, the problem is not with the media's fixation on this, but rather the direction they are taking. Focusing on so called "torture" is pointless, and rather insulting. Instead, why is the media not asking the right questions here, like.. are we getting anything of substance out of these prisoners with the setup we have? Is holding them at Gitmo in the manner that we are actually producing results that can help us? Should I just be happy that these people are locked up or should I be getting more out of this? Get off this "torture" angle and find out if this current detention setup is actually working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I keep hearing the statement: "The U.S. needs to be better than the rest of the countries, wrt treatment of detainees and with interrogation techniques." This impolies that we are currently not treating detainees better than the rest. 363033[/snapback] No, it doesn't imply that. It implies that we have based our system on treating everyone fairly, not torturing, complying with Geneva Convention, etc., in prisons. When we go against our own principles and standards, the defense of that is "Look at what those savages do". And then the response to THAT is, "we have to be better than them." Meaning, it doesn't matter one bit what anyone else does, we are above that and we have to practice what we preach. Granted, not all of those things apply to Gitmo. Granted, we do sometimes tortue. Granted, everyone is likely way worse than us. But I think your thesis statement was wrong. When people say we have to be better than them, it means we have to do good, always good, because that is what we (allegedly) do and what we stand for and what we preach. And if someone else does stuff to us under similar circumstanaces, we cannot retaliate accordingly with how we treat detainees, we have to stay with what we are supposed to do, i.e., "be better than them". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I don’t think these prisoners in Gitmo are being treated unfairly. My problem is that there is a Gitmo at all, when we could have just as easily held them overseas in less high-profile “accommodations”. Why establish and build a prison, tell everyone we are doing it, tell everyone that the GC doesn’t apply, tell everyone that American-style due process doesn’t apply, give it a nice easy name (Gitmo? Isn’t that a Pixar character?) then give tours to the media. What the hell did they expect would happen? Why wouldn’t they expect the rest of the world to point fingers and make stuff up? It’s blinding arrogance. To fully answer your question, it’s not that we don’t treat prisoners better, we most surely do. Gitmo and the “screw you” attitude of this administration gives the appearance that we don’t. They lost the PR war quite a while back. But I’m sure many will reply “Who cares” anyway, and they would probably be right in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I don’t think these prisoners in Gitmo are being treated unfairly. My problem is that there is a Gitmo at all, when we could have just as easily held them overseas in less high-profile “accommodations”. Why establish and build a prison, tell everyone we are doing it, tell everyone that the GC doesn’t apply, tell everyone that American-style due process doesn’t apply, give it a nice easy name (Gitmo? Isn’t that a Pixar character?) then give tours to the media. What the hell did they expect would happen? Why wouldn’t they expect the rest of the world to point fingers and make stuff up? It’s blinding arrogance. To fully answer your question, it’s not that we don’t treat prisoners better, we most surely do. Gitmo and the “screw you” attitude of this administration gives the appearance that we don’t. They lost the PR war quite a while back. But I’m sure many will reply “Who cares” anyway, and they would probably be right in the short term. 363087[/snapback] The kid's got a point................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Can't wait for Gitmo II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Can't wait for Gitmo II. 363231[/snapback] Brought to you by Halliburton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Brought to you by Halliburton! 363250[/snapback] My Buds at KBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Can't wait for Gitmo II. 363231[/snapback] We need a catchy subtitle for it though, ala Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 MMMMMMM.......RED MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 MMMMMMM.......RED MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 363308[/snapback] That's my girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 That's my girl. 363335[/snapback] Great article. let's hear the whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Can't wait for Gitmo II. 363231[/snapback] I've already gotten my Burger King Gitmo II Kids Lunch. It comes in a box shaped like a prison, and inside is a real terrorist figurine, a tiny black pillow cover to put over their heads, a battery, some wires and nipple clamps. I can also opt to have fruit instead of french fries, and that just makes the whole thing a very wholesome experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I've already gotten my Burger King Gitmo II Kids Lunch. It comes in a box shaped like a prison, and inside is a real terrorist figurine, a tiny black pillow cover to put over their heads, a battery, some wires and nipple clamps. I can also opt to have fruit instead of french fries, and that just makes the whole thing a very wholesome experience. 363363[/snapback] You f*cker....you owe me a keyboard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I've already gotten my Burger King Gitmo II Kids Lunch. It comes in a box shaped like a prison, and inside is a real terrorist figurine, a tiny black pillow cover to put over their heads, a battery, some wires and nipple clamps. I can also opt to have fruit instead of french fries, and that just makes the whole thing a very wholesome experience. 363363[/snapback] OMFG, Marketing IDEA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 i'm a little confused by the thread title. are there critics of Gitmo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 OMFG, Marketing IDEA! 363399[/snapback] I agree. I already sent the idea to a friend at PTO. He said he will lock down the idea in my name and I'll have a patent by Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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