Mcdermott going for it on 4th and 3

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

 

I agree completely.

 

He has been an excellent head coach, could likely take a team of back ups and cast offs and field a dominant defense.  His one weakness is he is too cautious, too careful--too defensive.

 

But last  year, with the firing of the clearly incompetent dorsey in the middle of the season, and taking more chances in general, showed he has learned, is taking the next step to reach his and his team's potential.

 

And on Thursday, doing the unexpected, just like you say. 

 

We saw that change in Andy Reid when he went to KC, and in Dick Vermeil in his second go round in the league, and it enabled them to take the next step.

 

If you always do what you've always done you will always get what you always got.  McDermott wants a championship--and now seems to have found the final key in his bag to open that door.

 

Go Bengals and  Titans today! Though Burrow may be on his last leg (wrist).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, 86poker said:

 

This shows the rate of success.  I'm not denying they are successful when going for it.  I have more trust in Josh to make these plays work.

 

But the bottom line is Mcdermott has been bottom 5 in going for it on 4th down in the league.  More often then not, he's taking the points over being aggressive.

 

Thursday he did the opposite and I hope it continues

You just don’t get it. 
 

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I wanted the Bills to take the points. I understand going for it. Watching live, I just felt like it was a bit too risky. Three yards on the road seemed like a bit too risky. I didn't want the Dolphins to have a just of emotional and momentum if they stopped the Bills. Plus, even if the Bills make it ; there was no guarantee of a TD. 

 

Poor was a happy to be wrong as I watched Cook gallop into the end zone. 

 

 

And if we kicked the FG there was no guarantee of 3 points 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Your perception is wrong. McDermott has consistently been one of the most aggressive 4th down decision makers.

when you have Allen as your QB, you always go for it instead of a 50+ yard FG.  

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

 

I wondered about that.  My thought at the time was that he wasn't confident in the D's ability to contain Miami's offense.  Expecting a shootout, he thought he needed 7.

 

But I also considered that he was confident that the mesh play to Cook would work in that situation. 

[JoshAllin]

They drew up that one time money play for that special occasion

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, 86poker said:

This shows the rate of success.

 

No, it doesn't. I don't know how to tell you this without sounding rude but you straight up don't understand how to interpret data. Like at a fundamental level. You couldn't even figure out what that chart is measuring when it's written out for you in plain English.

[Joe Ferguson]

McD always play smart and a river boat gambler in the regular season. But when it's playoff time, he coaches not to lose. If he coaches like the Miami game, Bills would have at least two super bowl wins.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

Whether it is normal or not, i don't know.  But i am sure he asks his OC, "Do you have a play?"  In this case, the snswer wss yes.  Whatever the options were on that play, Josh knew exactly what to do.  Very KC-like.

Edited September 15 by Shaw66

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

Not sure you’ve been paying attention.  McD is quite consistently aggressive in those situations unless the circumstances dictate otherwise.  

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I wanted the Bills to take the points. I understand going for it. Watching live, I just felt like it was a bit too risky. Three yards on the road seemed like a bit too risky. I didn't want the Dolphins to have a just of emotional and momentum if they stopped the Bills. Plus, even if the Bills make it ; there was no guarantee of a TD. 

 

Poor was a happy to be wrong as I watched Cook gallop into the end zone. 

 

 

The context there was important.  That was a stolen possession.  In a situation where you kickoff but get the ball back on an opening drive turnover, you really have no risk there.  You don’t convert, you just shortened the first half where they start with the ball giving us still the advantage getting the ball first in 2nd half.   But you convert and it’s like starting with the ball both halves and scoring on the first one with the second one still to come.  
 

Now add in how demoralizing it is for them to start with a turnover in a game that is almost a must win for them against the team that’s owned them and their division since it’s their home game and a TD over a FG can feel almost back breaking.  It’s mentally a 14 point swing when they come out against our depleted defense in their stadium expecting to score on the opening drive.  

 

So if there is a time to be aggressive it’s there IMHO.  Had we received the opening kickoff and it was our opening drive, then I take the points unless it was 4th and short.  Coming away with zero is like giving them a turnover to start the game.  

Edited September 15 by Alphadawg7

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I wondered about that.  My thought at the time was that he wasn't confident in the D's ability to contain Miami's offense.  Expecting a shootout, he thought he needed 7.

 

But I also considered that he was confident that the mesh play to Cook would work in that situation. 

 

He basically said that before that before the game:

 

"Typically against the Dolphins with their high powered offense, it's about points, not yards, and then taking care of the football." McDermott said. "You look at the games that we've played, the first game last season, we were able to take the ball away and score and score touchdowns rather than field goals, and in the second game we had yards, but not as many points. So it's points over yards and making sure we take care of the ball."

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/listen-mcdermott-its-about-points-not-yards-against-miami/ar-AA1qp4YK

 

So clearly he felt that it was more important than usual, that the Bills score touchdowns rather than field goals.

 

[chongli]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I wanted the Bills to take the points. I understand going for it. Watching live, I just felt like it was a bit too risky. Three yards on the road seemed like a bit too risky. I didn't want the Dolphins to have a just of emotional and momentum if they stopped the Bills. Plus, even if the Bills make it ; there was no guarantee of a TD. 

 

Poor was a happy to be wrong as I watched Cook gallop into the end zone. 

 

 

 

But Tyler Bass. I have more confidence in Josh than Tyler.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

You're wrong. McDermott goes for it all the time. He is one of the most aggressive coaches. He usually follows the analytics. He is not a conservative coach at all.

 

All of these narratives are just wrong. They are made up by critics.

 

He's become more aggressive on 4th down yes....but he's still a conservative coach, especially defensively late in games with his little soft zone that we get burned on at the end of games all the time, especially in big games and in the playoffs. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I agree completely.

 

He has been an excellent head coach, could likely take a team of back ups and cast offs and field a dominant defense.  His one weakness is he is too cautious, too careful--too defensive.

 

But last  year, with the firing of the clearly incompetent dorsey in the middle of the season, and taking more chances in general, showed he has learned, is taking the next step to reach his and his team's potential.

 

And on Thursday, doing the unexpected, just like you say. 

 

We saw that change in Andy Reid when he went to KC, and in Dick Vermeil in his second go round in the league, and it enabled them to take the next step.

 

If you always do what you've always done you will always get what you always got.  McDermott wants a championship--and now seems to have found the final key in his bag to open that door.

 

Go Bengals and  Titans today! Though Burrow may be on his last leg (wrist).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is patently and laughably wrong. Do you even watch games?

 

Hard to believe because there is no possible way you could state this if you did.

 

He is consistently aggressive in going for it in these situations, even early in games, and especially early in games if he expects them to be potentially high scoring.

Edited September 15 by Big Turk

[djp14150]

5 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

This came off a devense turnover so he decided to be aggressive because he figured we need TDs not FGs

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The context there was important.  That was a stolen possession.  In a situation where you kickoff but get the ball back on an opening drive turnover, you really have no risk there.  You don’t convert, you just shortened the first half where they start with the ball giving us still the advantage getting the ball first in 2nd half.   But you convert and it’s like starting with the ball both halves and scoring on the first one with the second one still to come.  
 

Now add in how demoralizing it is for them to start with a turnover in a game that is almost a must win for them against the team that’s owned them and their division since it’s their home game and a TD over a FG can feel almost back breaking.  It’s mentally a 14 point swing when they come out against our depleted defense in their stadium expecting to score on the opening drive.  

 

So if there is a time to be aggressive it’s there IMHO.  Had we received the opening kickoff and it was our opening drive, then I take the points unless it was 4th and short.  Coming away with zero is like giving them a turnover to start the game.  

I think that is one way to see it. However, there is an equally compelling case to be made for kicking the FG. The old adage of taking the points especially on the road wasn't a bad thought. 

 

I don't agree with your statement that there was no risk. A failed conversation would have immediately changed the momentum of the game. We all know how important momentum is. It likely would have jump started the Miami team and fans. 

 

Of course, it's all hindsight and the Bills converted it into a TD. So obviously it was the correct call based on the results. 

 

Your mindset here isn't wrong. It's an aggressive thought. Being aggressive comes with consequences on both sides. 

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

And if we kicked the FG there was no guarantee of 3 points 

Agree but the percentages were much higher of a FG make vs a 1st down conversation. 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, 86poker said:

This is not normal for him.

 

Why did he go for it in this spot.  He usually would just lay it up for 3, especially after getting stuffed on 3rd and 2

 

Hopefully we see this aggressiveness and confidence all season long

When he crosses the 50 yard line at McDermott goes for at a bigger clip than just about every single coach in the league 

 

4th and 1 4th and 2 4th and 3 are all in his wheelhouse.. it's not that abnormal for him since Josh became great

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think that is one way to see it. However, there is an equally compelling case to be made for kicking the FG. The old adage of taking the points especially on the road wasn't a bad thought. 

 

I don't agree with your statement that there was no risk. A failed conversation would have immediately changed the momentum of the game. We all know how important momentum is. It likely would have jump started the Miami team and fans. 

 

Of course, it's all hindsight and the Bills converted it into a TD. So obviously it was the correct call based on the results. 

 

Your mindset here isn't wrong. It's an aggressive thought. Being aggressive comes with consequences on both sides. 

Agree but the percentages were much higher of a FG make vs a 1st down conversation. 

Likely- but I’ll take Josh Allen making a 3 yard play over Bass making a kick any day

[Mister Defense]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

This is patently and laughably wrong. Do you even watch games?

 

Hard to believe because there is no possible way you could state this if you did.

 

He is consistently aggressive in going for it in these situations, even early in games, and especially early in games if he expects them to be potentially high scoring.

 

 

Lol, patently wrong, eh!?  You are the arbiter of these things?  No way--I have read your posts over the years!

 

McDermott is an excellent coach, but has been too defensive, not willing to take (good, calculated) chances enough as a head coach, plays it safe too much in big moments.  Not necessarily in going for it on 4th downs anymore, but in general. Has played it too close to the vest.  But he has learned, I believe he is cognizant of this weakness and is getting over it. Clearly so.

 

Kind of a 'duh' statement by me, that he has been too conservative overall,  and  one most would agree with, even those, like me, who hope he is the Bills' head coach for years to come.

 

Best coach and staff in the NFL in fostering the potential in players, and in coaches, and in making sure back ups are almost as ready as the starters. Now, becoming more aggressive, less concerned about losing than in winning and dominating.