Tua’s Broken Dome (now being placed on IR-out at least 4 games)

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one:  haven't other players (including Mitch Morse) had more concussions than Tua?

 

Sure they have. However, concussions effect everyone differently. I have been watching football for 50 years and have only seen players T-Rex on the field about 4 or 5 times. 2 of those have been Tua.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I know people are saying "it's his choice, let Tua decide!" but I don't think they're thinking ahead at how detrimental this could be to the ENTIRE SPORT.

 

Let's just say he chooses to play knowing the risks of more terrible concussions. It's a violent game after all, he's an adult, knows the risks, and feels it's worth it to provide for his family. We all know it's risky, but the worst that could happen is he suffers another one, right? 

 

But what if his brain is already severely damaged, and the next one potentially kills him? What do you think the league will look like after a player actually dies on the field on national TV? Look how scary it was for Damar, only this time it's permanent.

 

A player actually has died on the field from injuries sustained during the game.

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/the-tragic-on-field-death-of-chuck-hughes-may-have-sadly-stemmed-from-a-misdiagnosis/

 

This was in 1971.  

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

Sure they have. However, concussions effect everyone differently. I have been watching football for 50 years and have only seen players T-Rex on the field about 4 or 5 times. 2 of those have been Tua.

True.

And think about the impacts that have caused the concussions. Mitch Morse probably had several (too many, to be honest) caused by the slow-speed collisions of very large men who play on the line. Sadly we've seen this have big impacts later in life on guys like Mike Webster, but they're not the kind of obvious head trauma we're talking about here.

Tua had the type where the head rapidly - immediately - decelerates when hitting the ground or Hamlin's body. The kind that don't just cause some temporary grogginess that the player fights through in an ill-advised attempt to stay in the game, but the kind that clearly knock him cold.

[UKBillFan]

44 minutes ago, chongli said:

Word on the Miami forum is Tua is only saying he wants to come back so he gets the full amount of his contract. If he voluntarilly retires, he loses it, plus has to return part of his signing bonus.

 

They were stupid enough to give him that contract in the first place. I don't blame him for wanting to being paid it in full. From a personal point of view, I won't enjoy watching Tua play, if he ever comes back, as I'll fear him going down again - and whether the next case be even more serious than what's gone before. Of course, he shouldn't make his decision based on the personal enjoyment of those watching the game, but it doesn't make the situation as less palatable.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one:  haven't other players (including Mitch Morse) had more concussions than Tua?

 

That's actually an interesting point.  Morse is notably fragile to concussion - his most recent concussion with the Bills resulted from what looked like a casual contact with a teammate's knee if I recall correctly. 

Morse had 6 documented concussions in 8 years as of early 2023.  He's a family man with young children he adores.

 

Morse is on the record as saying he's fine, and going to be fine if he has another concussion "because we do things the right way", evidently meaning he doesn't hide symptoms, fudge his baseline testing, etc.  He apparently consulted a number of experts in concussion before deciding he would continue to play.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

But you can get concussion playing soccer, the sport that a lot of parents think is safer. My son had at least three, and my daughter had more than 3 (they don't always tell you). My son's all came from going up for headers while my daughter took a knee to the head one time that knocked her out (she played keeper). One of my son's teammates got a concussion and the trainer let him go back into the game (it was a HS playoff game). My son said he asked if we had won the game on the bus ride home. He had scored the game winning goal.  

 

Yes you can...but it's not what reality is, it is what people's PERCEPTION OF REALITY is.

 

And the perception right now is that football is much more dangerous than other sports for this type of injury.

 

I played soccer for 25 years starting at age 5. Saw plenty of really bad injuries...knees, ankles, broken legs, broken orbital bones from a player missing a header but connecting with the other players face instead, concussions, gruesome lacerations from metal spikes scraping across skin, etc...

 

But people don't associate soccer with these type of injuries, they associate football with them.

Edited Sunday at 05:01 PM by Big Turk

[Freddie's Dead]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

they should have cut him?

 

No Weo, they never should have sent him back out against the Bills and should have sat him and let him heal instead of sending him out to get mauled by Cincinnati.  That's how they done him wrong.

[GASabresIUFan]

Yes, Miami should have never allowed him to re-enter the game in 2022 against us and should have never played against Cincinnati.  Players have to realize that teams don't always have their best interest at heart and the Tua situation in 2022 is the clearest example of that.  The Fish believe that Tua gives them the best chance to win.  Therefore, if cleared, they will play him.  It's up to Tua and his family to decide for themselves when and if he plays again.  

 

Knowing how guys like Morse, Kyle Okposo, etc.... love to compete, my guess is once Tua is cleared he'll suit up again.  Look at the play in which he got hurt.  He launched himself head first in Damar.  Tua and Tua alone is responsible for this injury.  Now it's time for him to deal with the consequences.  

 

Miami has a fragile QB, they just invest 230 million in him, have 29 million in cap space, yet the have one of the worst O-lines in the NFL.  If Beane was their GM, there is now way on G-d's green earth that he'd allow a big $ fragile QB to play behind such a line.  He'd have spent money to fix it.  Has Miami's GM received any criticism for his handling of this team? 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:16 PM by GASabresIUFan

[May Day 10]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Everyone thinks they are concussion experts

 

It's an interesting topic, and unprecedented territory.  It's a crossroads that was inevitable for the nfl and is now here.  

 

Not sure what the right answer is, but it's probably allow the player to choose as long as he is cleared by independent doctor(s).  If his family is begging him not to play and he does anyways, that's his personal life/business. 

 

 

The Dolphins definitely seem to be in a bind here.  After him playing an entire season, paying him, then seeing him concussed on a seemingly mild play... it's a disaster.  

 

 

[cv05]

On 9/14/2024 at 10:27 AM, RunTheBall said:

IDK if this needs its own thread, I didn’t see one that seemed to fit, but feel free to merge it if appropriate.

 

I’m a doc, not a brain doc, but I’ve got enough experience with traumatic brain injury that I think I can opine with some credibility. I’ve always disliked Miami as a franchise but ever since 2022 I’ve had a searing hatred for them because I think they put Tua’s life in danger. 

 

The decision to allow Tua to play that Thursday night game after he got his first concussion against the Bills on a Sunday was criminal. When Tua fell/stumbled off the field and they said it was back spasms the NFL should have stepped in and said “WTF are you even thinking?!” That second concussion he suffered where he was fencing on the ground was the one that significantly scrambled his brain and has the potential to be life altering. Despite what that clown David Chao says, a fencing response is an indicator of a SEVERE concussion. You don’t get a fencing response on a minor concussion. What’s happening is near seizure like activity leading to spasticity and uncontrolled limb movements. 

 

We saw a fencing response from Tua again on Thursday night on what should have been a very minor head bonk. The reason Tua suffered another severe concussion on a minor hit was because his brain was significantly damaged back in 2022 and he’s highly vulnerable to future concussions and brain damage. There’s no question in my mind Tua should walk away from the game with his guaranteed millions and enjoy the rest of his life as healthy as he can. 

 

Miami is a disgusting franchise. The reason McDaniels looked so shell shocked on Thursday is because he knows he’s partially responsible for Tua’s marshmallow cranium. Every person who said it was ok for Tua to play that Thursday night in 2022, including the docs who signed off on it, should have been fired, and at the very least feel immense shame for what they did to Tua.

 

 

I agree with you, but you should feel the same way about the bills franchise. Josh Allen was knocked out cold against the Patriots (visually much worse than Tua's against the bills) and then played the following week. Same thing, arguably worse. 

[Beck Water]

37 minutes ago, cv05 said:

I agree with you, but you should feel the same way about the bills franchise. Josh Allen was knocked out cold against the Patriots (visually much worse than Tua's against the bills) and then played the following week. Same thing, arguably worse. 

 

There  are two critical differences in how the Bills organization handled Allen’s concussion.

 

One is, Allen was pulled from the game.  

Two, he was placed in concussion protocol and went through all the steps, meaning he was limited in practice and physical activity during the following week

 

Now you can be skeptical about how it was handled - you can argue he shouldn’t have cleared in a week etc.  But some of that 100% rests with Allen, how he handled his baseline and symptom reporting.  Response to concussion is highly variable, and it’s possible that he actually did recover.

 

The point is, Josh was placed in the concussion protocol and the protocol was followed.

 

It did not involve circumventing the UNC and the protocol by allowing the potentially-concussed player to state that back injuries caused his instability and therefore the protocol did not apply, despite what everyone saw (and the doctors not examining his back)

 

You can say there’s no difference and that means the Bills are also a sleeze franchise if you wish.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:24 PM by Beck Water

[Matt_In_NH]

58 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

It's an interesting topic, and unprecedented territory.  It's a crossroads that was inevitable for the nfl and is now here.  

 

Not sure what the right answer is, but it's probably allow the player to choose as long as he is cleared by independent doctor(s).  If his family is begging him not to play and he does anyways, that's his personal life/business. 

 

 

The Dolphins definitely seem to be in a bind here.  After him playing an entire season, paying him, then seeing him concussed on a seemingly mild play... it's a disaster.  

 

 

Not sure there is a crossroads for the nfl.  There is a protocol that applies to all players.  If he gets cleared he can play and like you said it is his decision that he makes with his family and actual doctor experts.  

[Sierra Foothills]

4 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Not sure there is a crossroads for the nfl.  There is a protocol that applies to all players.  If he gets cleared he can play and like you said it is his decision that he makes with his family and actual doctor experts.  

 

You seem to be missing the fact that not all of the doctors are going to have the same interests. You're acting like there will only be one unanimous medical opinion.

 

Minimally there are Tua's doctors, the Dolphins doctors, and the NFL's doctors. It also wouldn't be surprising if the NFLPA hired their own doctors in this case.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You seem to be missing the fact that not all of the doctors are going to have the same interests. You're acting like there will only be one unanimous medical opinion.

 

Minimally there are Tua's doctors, the Dolphins doctors, and the NFL's doctors. It also wouldn't be surprising if the NFLPA hired their own doctors in this case.

 

I am not missing anything.  

[DCofNC]

On 9/14/2024 at 11:44 AM, Doc said:

It sucks it happened but Tua's a grown man and can make his own decisions.  I get trying to hide a concussion in the Bills game in 2022 but after the Bengals game, he should have re-evaluated his life.  He decided to keep playing and survived last season without a concussion.  Now if he continues to play, it's all on him.

He had no KNOWN/reported concussions last  season.  However, his play was pretty awful at the end of the year, do we know he wasn’t messed up and hiding it?   He’s had so many known concussions at this point, he really should stop, but we’ll see what he chooses to do.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

No Weo, they never should have sent him back out against the Bills and should have sat him and let him heal instead of sending him out to get mauled by Cincinnati.  That's how they done him wrong.

he recovered.  He went on the lead the league in passing the next season.  
 

sure they shouldn’t have put him back in that Bills game.  But they didn’t.  What was the outcome? He won his next 5 games in ‘22.  
 

your argument would make some sense if he had to retire, as a result of that big hit, at the end of the ‘22 season.

Edited Sunday at 07:06 PM by Mr. WEO

[Lionel Hutz]

His family and teammates need to have an intervention. He's already made more money than most will make in a lifetime and it's not like he couldn't get a football related job that pays well. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

A player actually has died on the field from injuries sustained during the game.

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/the-tragic-on-field-death-of-chuck-hughes-may-have-sadly-stemmed-from-a-misdiagnosis/

 

This was in 1971.  

 

Wow! Somehow I was completely unaware of that. 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

he recovered.  He went on the lead the league in passing the next season.  
 

sure they shouldn’t have put him back in that Bills game.  But they didn’t.  What was the outcome? He won his next 5 games in ‘22.  
 

your argument would make some sense if he had to retire, as a result of that big hit, at the end of the ‘22 season.

 

They did put him back in the Bills game(he never recovered) and then he got second impact syndrome against the Bengals.  Dave Mason time, I'm done.

Edited Sunday at 08:43 PM by Freddie's Dead

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

McDaniel is a smart guy.  We all knew in 2022 that Tua was concussed.  McDaniel looked the other way, along with the Fish organization and the NFL.  They did Tua wrong.

Hes a football coach. Not a life coach or a doctor. His job is to win football games.

 

If the doctors clear him, he has to go by that. If he didn't , then he's not built out to be an nfl coach