Tua’s Broken Dome (now being placed on IR-out at least 4 games)

[Turk71]

Tua definitely could have helped himself by not running head first into the defender like a battering ram. What was he thinking, he already had the first down easily. It was senseless self destruction.....that said, I was in disbelief when they trotted him back out after getting knocked unconscious and loopy a couple years ago. That was seriously ***** up

[mikemac2001]

40 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Here are Tua's 3 concussions before Thursday night. Look at him wobbling after being hit by Milano:

 

 

Then they said it was a back injury and he played 4 days later. Unbelievable.

 

Ya this is why I can’t respect all of mcdanials bs he sent him out there twice like nothing happened 

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

IDK if this needs its own thread, I didn’t see one that seemed to fit, but feel free to merge it if appropriate.

 

I’m a doc, not a brain doc, but I’ve got enough experience with traumatic brain injury that I think I can opine with some credibility. I’ve always disliked Miami as a franchise but ever since 2022 I’ve had a searing hatred for them because I think they put Tua’s life in danger. 

 

The decision to allow Tua to play that Thursday night game after he got his first concussion against the Bills on a Sunday was criminal. When Tua fell/stumbled off the field and they said it was back spasms the NFL should have stepped in and said “WTF are you even thinking?!” That second concussion he suffered where he was fencing on the ground was the one that significantly scrambled his brain and has the potential to be life altering. Despite what that clown David Chao says, a fencing response is an indicator of a SEVERE concussion. You don’t get a fencing response on a minor concussion. What’s happening is near seizure like activity leading to spasticity and uncontrolled limb movements. 

 

We saw a fencing response from Tua again on Thursday night on what should have been a very minor head bonk. The reason Tua suffered another severe concussion on a minor hit was because his brain was significantly damaged back in 2022 and he’s highly vulnerable to future concussions and brain damage. There’s no question in my mind Tua should walk away from the game with his guaranteed millions and enjoy the rest of his life as healthy as he can. 

 

Miami is a disgusting franchise. The reason McDaniels looked so shell shocked on Thursday is because he knows he’s partially responsible for Tua’s marshmallow cranium. Every person who said it was ok for Tua to play that Thursday night in 2022, including the docs who signed off on it, should have been fired, and at the very least feel immense shame for what they did to Tua.

 

I pretty much agree with the sentiments you express, but when I unpack the details, there's A Lot.

 

The chain of causation started with the evaluation that Tua did NOT have a concussion on Sunday.  If it had been diagnosed as a concussion, either during the game or after the game and he'd been placed in the concussion protocol as he should have been, chances are strong he wouldn't have cleared for Thursday night.  I think the entire community of former players and media covering football and physicians who watch football was stunned that he wasn't Dx'd with a concussion after Tua got up, fell to his knees, and appeared (to use a technical term) "woozy", leaning against a teammate to stay up.  Even if they blew the diagnosis during the game, the concussion protocol is in part, designed for things that are missed during a game to be caught later.

It should be noted that the "personal foul" which led to this was about as milquetoast a hit as a player can sustain.  Here's a video for reference - Milano just gave Tua a shove straight back, didn't throw him or land on top of him, and Tua fell backwards and clonked his head.  This actually was the kind of hit many players sustain multiple times each game.

There is a bunch of stuff going around about decorticate posturing vs fencing response and how they correlate with concussion severity, some of it by people whose credentials and professionalism I respect, and all I'll say is this is way way out of my lane.  No one seems to think that decorticate posturing (as in Tua's 2022 concussion) isn't an indication of a severe injury, however.
 

IIRC, the doctors responsible for clearing Tua on Sunday in 2022 were fired.  Does McDaniel have responsibility?  As a coach, he relies on the professional medical judgement of the physicians paid to care for the players (and the independent neurotrauma consultant).  I think there's a case to be made for it being a slippery slope for a coach to over-ride medical professionals.   On the other hand, everyone who watched that video of Tua after he got up thought it indicated head trauma.  So yeah, Mr "I Love You Tua" was complicit and bears responsibility, if not during the game, then for not saying "man, we got to get you thoroughly checked out!" afterwards.

 

Back in 2022, several people made the point that one of the reasons the system doesn't work is because the players are also complicit in "gaming it".  They may fudge their baseline testing so it's easier for them to pass, deny symptoms they are having, and so forth.

 

I think Tua's hit in the Bills game was not so minor- his head and neck can be seen to be bent rather severely to the side in some shots, and then he clonked his head on the turf.  Either way, the point is, after avoiding concussions last season, here Tua is with another concussion that appears serious, and now what?

 

Tua's whole performance in that game, starting with his first interception, was sus as hell and showed poor decision making from a QB who is normally careful with the ball.  This leads me to totally unsubstantiated speculation that Tua may actually have mirrored the sequence of 2022 - he may have sustained a concussion that went undetected on Sunday, interfering with his reactions and decision making and rendering him once again susceptible to a second, more severe concussion on Thursday.

If that were the case, then once again the system would have failed Tua.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 04:11 AM by Beck Water

[Simon]

58 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

As much as I’d love to blame this on the dolphins, it’s 100% on the player.

 

The "back injury" concussion where the Dolphins put him back on the field in the second half is 100% on the team.

You can't expect a player to make decisions in his best interest when he's semi-conscious.

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The "back injury" concussion where the Dolphins put him back on the field in the second half is 100% on the team.

You can't expect a player to make decisions in his best interest when he's semi-conscious.

 

Yeah, I linked it in a long post I wrote above, but I'm sure plenty TL;DR me so here it is again
1) by Milano standards, Tua got a "love tap":  a little shove straight back from a distance while Milano was pulling up; no throwing down or twisting or landing on him.  But Tua's head bounced off the turf rather alarmingly for something he saw coming and could have controlled.
2) Tua appeared unsteady getting up, started to jog forward, and fell to his knees.  When a teammate helped him up, he appeared "woozy" and was leaning against a teammate

 

If he wasn't evaluated for concussion after that, the system 100% failed him.  

I could be off base, you tell me, but I'm not sure you can expect highly competitive players to make decisions in their best interest when they're revved up on adrenaline and in the middle of a game, even if they're fully conscious.  

 

I had a friend who moonlighted as a doc for the St Louis Blues and told stories - a player with his cheek gashed open, "stitch me up doc, I need to get out there.  no pain meds, just do it fast!"

Edited Sunday at 04:20 AM by Beck Water

[Inigo Montoya]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Yes, his first concussion was against the Bills. His second concussion was 4 days later against the Bengals.

 

That should never have happened and things might be different today had that not happened.

 

We'll never know.

 

 

I agree.  Tua's health and well being was grossly mismanaged by people who knew better.

 

When you suffer a concussion you don't even need to hit your head again to make the concussion worse. 

 

Simple aerobic activity can make a concussion worse.   That's why there is a step-wise protocol to follow before you return to full activity.  The protocol gently ramps up the amount of physical activity and sees if the new level of physical activity causes the concussion symptoms to return.   If they do, they back up to the previous step in the protocol and give the brain some more time to heal.

 

The fact that Tua went back into the game that day against the Bills and ran around, and then went to practice the next three days probably aggravated his brain injury all by itself.   Being rag-dolled by the Bengals four days later was just the coup de grace.

[CoudyBills]

14 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

 

Of course they can't "force" him to retire, but they can give him a little nudge.....they can definitely suggest to players and organizations and agents, when a player should start looking at retirement over health concerns.

 

Tua is one major hit away from drinking out of a sippy cup and riding the short bus the rest of his life......i don't wish that on anyone.

In fact they cannot suggest to agents or organizations.  That would be collusion.  

[Lfod]

Tua is a real life bobble head. Put his neck in a brace because his neck doesn't work. He is a decent QB though and I am sure the money is sweet so I doubt he will hang them up. 

 

I only blamed Miami for putting him out so soon after the first hit he took that had him looking funny. After that i think both sides knew the reality. 

 

Miami gave him the bag and he wanted it. On the outside looking in, I knew Tua had his own way of being tackled, like he wants to throw himself in bed on a soft pillow. He might be out before hits the ground and then just falls funny making it look like the ground that did it.

 

Lot of money on the line, its easy to say you would walk away without the weight of it all on you. If he sets his kids up for life at the cost of his brain and hes ok with it, i have to respect his choice as a man.

Edited Sunday at 07:02 AM by Lfod

[BullBuchanan]

He's a grown ass man who's already made tens of millions of dollars and it's beaten into players these days just how severe of a problem concussions can be. Tua's playing because he wants to, and that's his decision. No one should be able to get in the way of that if that's what he wants to do. For a lot of players, being in the NFL is the culmination of their entire life's work. There is no after that will provide any semblance of parity to what they are actively experiencing.

I earn a solid upper-middle class living, am relatively healthy and if I've had concussions, it been a good 20 years since, but I would trade places with Tua in a   heartbeat if I could and I'd keep playing until no team wanted me, there was nothing left to achieve, or until I just couldn't do it anymore. The money wouldn't even be a top 3 reason for doing it. Life isn't that important that you should sacrifice the things that make it worth living in the first place.

Edited Sunday at 07:28 AM by BullBuchanan

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

Ya this is why I can’t respect all of mcdanials bs he sent him out there twice like nothing happened 

doctors cleared him….

[GrimboG]

  

 

Tua has no plans to retire, per Rapsheet. I think this is terrible news for the Phins, and possibly Tua himself. They're going to be stuck with that contract and a QB that is one small collision away from going through this again 

 

Finsheaven is in meltdown btw and well worth a visit! 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 minutes ago, GrimboG said:

Tua has no plans to retire, per Rapsheet. I think this is terrible news for the Phins, and possibly Tua himself. They're going to be stuck with that contract and a QB that is one small collision away from going through this again 

 

Finsheaven is in meltdown btw and well worth a visit! 

 

 

 

I suspect we don't see Tua the rest of the year but I certainly bet he would like to come back next year and then it is all about whether or not he can be cleared by a doctor. Fins seem to be screwed either way. They paid a QB $200M who just isn't good enough to beat good teams. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, GrimboG said:

  

 

Tua has no plans to retire, per Rapsheet. I think this is terrible news for the Phins, and possibly Tua himself. They're going to be stuck with that contract and a QB that is one small collision away from going through this again 

 

Finsheaven is in meltdown btw and well worth a visit! 

 

 

Personally, if he wants to play, let him play. It's always easy to sit back and make decisions like this for someone else. But we don't see his brain scans, don't know what he's physically going through post concussion wise or anything like that.

 

If Tua was my kid this is what I'd tell him. Forget about all the "gotta be there for your team" nonsense. Go see the doctor. Then go see another one. Then go see a third. And just because you can afford it, go see a fourth. Get all the information you need to make a decision from as many independent doctors as you can. Don't listen to the media. Detach from the team for a few weeks. Then make that decision. 

[TheWei44]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Personally, if he wants to play, let him play. It's always easy to sit back and make decisions like this for someone else. But we don't see his brain scans, don't know what he's physically going through post concussion wise or anything like that.

 

If Tua was my kid this is what I'd tell him. Forget about all the "gotta be there for your team" nonsense. Go see the doctor. Then go see another one. Then go see a third. And just because you can afford it, go see a fourth. Get all the information you need to make a decision from as many independent doctors as you can. Don't listen to the media. Detach from the team for a few weeks. Then make that decision. 

Pretty much agree with the "If Tua was my kid . . ." part - Discuss decision with close family members too.  So basically gather the best medical information possible and then decide with input from his inner non-team circle.  And he may need to consider things in a probabilistic sense, like if he gets hit once more, he's 75% likely to be out for X weeks and have these Y long-term effects, etc. 

Edited Sunday at 02:09 PM by TheWei44

[May Day 10]

27 minutes ago, GrimboG said:

  

 

Tua has no plans to retire, per Rapsheet. I think this is terrible news for the Phins, and possibly Tua himself. They're going to be stuck with that contract and a QB that is one small collision away from going through this again 

 

Finsheaven is in meltdown btw and well worth a visit! 

 

 

 

 

He has to say he has no plans to retire at this point 

If doctors tell him he cant/shouldn't play again, I can see miami trying to somehow claim he was going to retire anyway and fight for the $

Edited Sunday at 02:14 PM by May Day 10

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I suspect we don't see Tua the rest of the year but I certainly bet he would like to come back next year and then it is all about whether or not he can be cleared by a doctor. Fins seem to be screwed either way. They paid a QB $200M who just isn't good enough to beat good teams. 

 

I said they were stupid to give him a huge new deal.  I've never seen anyone posture after a hit/concussion before (I have seen decerebrate posturing in an intubated patient after a massive stroke and that was unnerving to say the least).  To have done it once it bad enough and it happening again isn't a surprise.

Edited Sunday at 03:00 PM by Doc

[May Day 10]

These things get easier and easier to trigger it seems, as we saw with a rather routine collision with Hamlin.  I remember Lafontaine at the end, he got his last concussion running into a teammate.

 

In Tua's case, any sort of contact on the field is a danger to trigger a concussion (and one that fired around his part of the brain that makes him convulse on the ground).  

 

It's terrible for him, terrible for his team.  It'll be a constant state of uncertainty.  Do they have the highest paid backup qb in the league?

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, GrimboG said:

  

 

Tua has no plans to retire, per Rapsheet. I think this is terrible news for the Phins, and possibly Tua himself. They're going to be stuck with that contract and a QB that is one small collision away from going through this again 

 

Finsheaven is in meltdown btw and well worth a visit! 

 

 

Well, he's a grown man and knows the risks at this point.  Seems he's content to end up like Junior Seau someday.  For his sake, I hope no team ever sticks him on the field again.

Edited Sunday at 02:53 PM by TheBrownBear

[Beast]

I just wonder, with the NFL being sued by former players over concussion issues, can the league step in and say Tua is done? I think they could and not allow him to step in the field. Either that or sign the old Steve Grogan waiver of liability before he takes the field.

[SCBills]

It’s Tua’s decision and more power to him if he wants to come back, but man.. the Dolphins are basically held hostage at this point now.

 

Theres really no way to properly build a team around a guy who’s a routine tackle away from missing multiple games at any moment and will have the retirement conversation brought up everytime time it happens. 
 

Tough spot for all involved. 

Edited Sunday at 03:07 PM by SCBills