Tua’s Broken Dome (now being placed on IR-out at least 4 games)

[DaVinci]

unconfirmed according to Miami message board Tua will retire per @AdamSchefter

Edited September 14 by DaVinci

[Meatloaf63]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Absurd--they can't force a grown man to retire.  He is well aware of the risks he incurs by playing.  

 

Where were you threads screaming for the Bills to force Morse to retire after countless concussions.  Look at Micah Hyde--had 2 seasons in a row with serious neck injury, had a cervical fusion and needs another....yet many here are craving to put his safety and health aside and join the Bills for a playoff run!

 

The Dolphin hate I get...butthis as the justification for your hate?  Nah...seems drummed up.  Everyone so concerned for a divisional rival QB's health!

 

come on...

 

 

A lot of people here said Morris should probably retire.

[Matt_In_NH]

I watch a lot of nfl football and listen to podcasts with retired players and whatnot.  NFL players gets concussed all the time and finish the game.  If they are dizzy they have taught themselves to stay on the ground and not provide that visual evidence they are dazed. They want to stay in the game and all teams “allow” it  including the bills.  It all goes with plausible deniability but it is all routine.   It goes unsaid but it’s obvsious if you are paying attention.  The tests are beatable in many cases and the players are not truthful because they have that warrior mentality. 

[Breakout Squad]

14 minutes ago, DaVinci said:

unconfirmed according to Miami message board Tua will retire per @AdamSchefter

Fake news 

[Sierra Foothills]

7 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

IDK if this needs its own thread, I didn’t see one that seemed to fit, but feel free to merge it if appropriate.

 

I’m a doc, not a brain doc, but I’ve got enough experience with traumatic brain injury that I think I can opine with some credibility. I’ve always disliked Miami as a franchise but ever since 2022 I’ve had a searing hatred for them because I think they put Tua’s life in danger. 

 

The decision to allow Tua to play that Thursday night game after he got his first concussion against the Bills on a Sunday was criminal. When Tua fell/stumbled off the field and they said it was back spasms the NFL should have stepped in and said “WTF are you even thinking?!” That second concussion he suffered where he was fencing on the ground was the one that significantly scrambled his brain and has the potential to be life altering. Despite what that clown David Chao says, a fencing response is an indicator of a SEVERE concussion. You don’t get a fencing response on a minor concussion. What’s happening is near seizure like activity leading to spasticity and uncontrolled limb movements. 

 

We saw a fencing response from Tua again on Thursday night on what should have been a very minor head bonk. The reason Tua suffered another severe concussion on a minor hit was because his brain was significantly damaged back in 2022 and he’s highly vulnerable to future concussions and brain damage. There’s no question in my mind Tua should walk away from the game with his guaranteed millions and enjoy the rest of his life as healthy as he can. 

 

Miami is a disgusting franchise. The reason McDaniels looked so shell shocked on Thursday is because he knows he’s partially responsible for Tua’s marshmallow cranium. Every person who said it was ok for Tua to play that Thursday night in 2022, including the docs who signed off on it, should have been fired, and at the very least feel immense shame for what they did to Tua.

 

 

 

I'm not a doctor or a lawyer and it wouldn't matter if I was because brain trauma is an inexact science and the proof is that you have (and have had) legal and medical "experts" contradicting each other throughout the Tua saga.

 

Purely from the standpoint of my life experience, any modicum of common sense I've accrued and what my own eyes tell me, I believe that it was a bad decision for Tua to continue playing after his previous concussion. I hope he doesn't live to regret it.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Absurd--they can't force a grown man to retire.  He is well aware of the risks he incurs by playing.  

 

Where were you threads screaming for the Bills to force Morse to retire after countless concussions.  Look at Micah Hyde--had 2 seasons in a row with serious neck injury, had a cervical fusion and needs another....yet many here are craving to put his safety and health aside and join the Bills for a playoff run!

 

The Dolphin hate I get...butthis as the justification for your hate?  Nah...seems drummed up.  Everyone so concerned for a divisional rival QB's health!

 

come on...

 

It would be difficult for anyone other than Tua to end his career but here's a question... is there a scenario where one or more of the stakeholders take the position that he can no longer play in the NFL?

 

 

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

But Tua gets crapped on here year round, and when he may now be eliminated as a threat on a team that has been widely picked to challenge the Bills for the division, let's say I'm not convinced of the genuine nature of the concussion prompted TBD outpouring of concern for Tua's health....when the same posters are clamoring for Hyde's return (to help the Bills in the playoff run!), for instance.

 

it's a stretch....

 

Firstly Tua gets crapped on because he's half the QB that Josh is and he makes a lot more money. Secondly you're making the case that the Morse, Hyde, and Tua situations are equivalent but they're not because of the matter of degree.

 

I don't remember Morse or Hyde having the "fencing response" even once. I don't remember either of them being ragdolled in a way which made even jaded old football fans cringe. 

 

6 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

It seems to me that everyone has a responsibility to get this right.

Tua, the Miami Dolphins organization, the NFL, the NFLPA and the doctors all have some skin in this game.

Football itself has come under fire for these issues so it should not be solely Tua's choice.

 

4 hours ago, DaVinci said:

Tua is done. The NFL will never let him play. Can you Imagine the Optics of one more Fencing Tua on the field.

 

Just writing off the cuff, here are the stakeholders and their various possible positions with most likely (IMO) first:

 

Tua: 1) Wants to continue playing 2) Doesn't want to continue playing

Tua's Family: (see above)

NFL: 1) The NFL probably doesn't want him to come back due to concerns about their own liability if he suffers another brain injury 2) If he chooses to resume his career they don't want to stand in his way due to concerns about their own liability in blocking his return

NFLPA: 1) They don't want to endorse his comeback due to concerns about their own liability if he suffers another brain injury 2) If he chooses to resume his career they want him to come back because they believe that the decision should rest solely in the hands of the player

The Dolphins: 1) They don't want him to come back because they want to minimize any remaining financial obligations and they know he is damaged goods and even were he undamaged they know he is not good enough to win a championship 2) They want him to come back because they don't have a better option at QB

 

So minimally you have 5 different stakeholders and each having a plausible reason to feel 2 different ways.

 

If Tua decided to retire, he would be letting all of these groups off the hook.

 

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

i'll give an example from my own experience....

 

I played junior B hockey in Canada for a couple of years when i was in my teens. I was an average player, nothing special, but i could check like it was nobody's business......i was also checked many times while i had my head down (1st thing they teach you in hockey is to always keep your head up and have it on a swivel).

I was concussed numerous times, but back then like 40 years ago it was like anything, rub a little dirt on it and get back out there. My coaches ended up telling me to maybe move on, as the concussions were piling up and it was affecting my play.....and i hung it up.

 

You know what i did after that?........what any logical human being would do after being concussed numerous times, i joined a boxing club. I had two semi-pro bouts, lost one, won the other.......Arnie Boehm, my boxing coach came to me and said i should hang up the gloves (he could tell that past concussions were affecting my speech, my movement, etc. and he didn't want to be responsible if i got seriously hurt in the ring).

So, i walked away from sports.......i was done.

 

Fast forward to today, i have dealt with debilitating migraines since my early 20's........like, i'm talking like these headaches will knock me out for days. I have slurred speech and sometimes act erratically.

 

It's the buildup of concussion trauma......i know it, the doctors know it, however there's nothing they can do about it with so much time after the fact.

 

My opinion is that Tua should look at retirement........he has money, he has family, and sports aren't everything when your health is at risk......especially long-term health and affects.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your brain injuries. If it's any consolation you're an excellent writer and you seem wise and grounded.

 

20 minutes ago, Simon said:

I would scramble my brains tomorrow morning if it resulted in the kind of generational wealth that would help my family and community for the next 100 years.

And I bet your dumb ass would too. 🤙

I'm not sure how supportive I am of the league taking that choice out of players' hands.

 

To the bolded and as I said in a different topic, I could not make a blanket statement as to what I would or would not do.

 

For each person it's different but the decision is essentially a cost/benefit anaylysis.

 

$100 million is not the same as $200 million. Migraine headaches are not the same as ALS or CTE. Some people become suicidal, some homicidal. You might not wish that your loved ones are saddled with caring for a severely damaged person, generational wealth or not.

 

And for most people $5 million is generational wealth. Tua has already made over $73 million in his career.

 

 

 

 

[Saxum]

52 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I mean, from a pure football perspective how can you grow your team if you have a ticking time bomb at QB? And it's not like Tua is so talented that it makes sense to continue to try and build your team around him. I mean just this offseason Bills fan practically sang from the roof top with the extension. It's been guaranteed mediocrity to date. Now, under even the best situation possible, you have to basically hold your breath every week. Not sure that is fair to his teammates or the Dolphins. If I was Miami, I would take the option away from him and I think in doing so you would be doing the best thing for the team as well as the player. No good path exists from Miami trying to make this work, or really, any NFL team. Move on. It's best for all involved. 

 

THe problem with Mijami is they basically built the team for his skill set and not a lot QBs would do well in that system. It was built to have WRs burn DBs and LBs and he get the ball to him but he tried to be a mobile QB which he is not.  Either coaching staff did not tell him to protect himself or they did and he tried to do more than he should have.  

 

Imagine putting Tua in Ravens' system which requires the QB to be a running one or Bills system which requires QB to avoid at at least one rusher - he would not fit.

 

Miami needs to either (1) find a QB which fits who is a backup / retired. (2) accept a down year and draft a new QB to fit or (3) axe GM and start trading resources to build another team.    

 

They built a dead end team.

If only they had not dissed Fitzpatrick so much ...... 

[Joe Mama]

They will not force retirement, but the NFL will not allow an NFL doctor to clear hm fearing the lawsuit when the unmentionable happens after clearing him. So, he can remain in a state of limbo collecting his salary until his contract ends.

[mikemac2001]

11 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

They will not force retirement, but the NFL will not allow an NFL doctor to clear hm fearing the lawsuit when the unmentionable happens after clearing him. So, he can remain in a state of limbo collecting his salary until his contract ends.

Yep and he will go find a doctor outside of the NFL which will clear him and it will create a legal battle if money comes up 

 

if he gets paid and can retire I think he walks

away

[Bermuda Triangle]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Absurd--they can't force a grown man to retire. 

 

 

Can't force him to retire, but nobody forced the Dolphins to sign Tua to an extension, either. 

[RunTheBall]

I think the important point to not lose track of is had Miami done the right thing and let him heal for a month after the first concussion in 2022 against Buffalo, he would not have had the severe concussion on that Thursday night in 2022 and he likely would not have suffered a severe concussion this past Thursday. Now I don’t know that for a fact, but 31 years of training/practicing leads me to that opinion. It was mind boggling that they blamed his stumbling on “back spasms” when 95% of viewers (the other 5% being Miami fans) could clearly tell his egg was scrambled. I don’t think the league should force Tua to retire. He’s a grown adult and can make his own decisions like Hyde did (although neck < brain).

 

From a competitive standpoint, if Tua comes back, Miami’s offense is going to be even more limited. He’s not going to run, he’s going to go down at the first hint of pressure. That’s a significant advantage to defenses.

[BigDingus]

I know people are saying "it's his choice, let Tua decide!" but I don't think they're thinking ahead at how detrimental this could be to the ENTIRE SPORT.

 

Let's just say he chooses to play knowing the risks of more terrible concussions. It's a violent game after all, he's an adult, knows the risks, and feels it's worth it to provide for his family. We all know it's risky, but the worst that could happen is he suffers another one, right? 

 

But what if his brain is already severely damaged, and the next one potentially kills him? What do you think the league will look like after a player actually dies on the field on national TV? Look how scary it was for Damar, only this time it's permanent.

 

The league who's more concerned with its image anything else... there will be DRAMATIC rule changes that may actually kill the sport the way it is today. They'll need to appear like they're making a dramatic overhaul right? Better helmets, more penalties & more armor won't be enough. They've done that before. Maybe we remove all that & go back to a more rugby style of football. Maybe they make it so tackling in general is gone. Flag football will be in the Olympics, so maybe they think it's time to reboot.

 

Does anyone want that? We already get mad about kickoff being changed every single year, the crazy protection QBs get (and Tua is a QB, yet this still happened to him), the banning of helmet to helmet/horse collar/hip drop/etc tackles, and all these rules meant to protect players. None of it helped Tua.

 

We don't know how bad CTE is until these athletes die & have their brains examined. What if Tua has smaller collisions that don't appear as concussions, then gets hit with another severe one? His brain is not going to magically heal & undo all this. 

 

You might be thinking about this in isolation to ONE player, but look at it on a wider scale. It won't just be the Dolphins or their doctors that get punished. The entire league will be negatively affected if Tua suffers another concussion. And if there's even a tiny possibility he could potentially die, the league NEEDS to step in for all our sakes.

 

Tua may say "it's worth the risk," but is it worth the risk to every NFL fan that the game they live could be irreversibly changed forever? I say no. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

I think the important point to not lose track of is had Miami done the right thing and let him heal for a month after the first concussion in 2022 against Buffalo, he would not have had the severe concussion on that Thursday night in 2022 and he likely would not have suffered a severe concussion this past Thursday. Now I don’t know that for a fact, but 31 years of training/practicing leads me to that opinion. It was mind boggling that they blamed his stumbling on “back spasms” when 95% of viewers (the other 5% being Miami fans) could clearly tell his egg was scrambled. I don’t think the league should force Tua to retire. He’s a grown adult and can make his own decisions like Hyde did (although neck < brain).

 

From a competitive standpoint, if Tua comes back, Miami’s offense is going to be even more limited. He’s not going to run, he’s going to go down at the first hint of pressure. That’s a significant advantage to defenses.

 

Yes, his first concussion was against the Bills. His second concussion was 4 days later against the Bengals.

 

That should never have happened and things might be different today had that not happened.

 

We'll never know.

 

54 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

I know people are saying "it's his choice, let Tua decide!" but I don't think they're thinking ahead at how detrimental this could be to the ENTIRE SPORT.

 

Let's just say he chooses to play knowing the risks of more terrible concussions. It's a violent game after all, he's an adult, knows the risks, and feels it's worth it to provide for his family. We all know it's risky, but the worst that could happen is he suffers another one, right? 

 

But what if his brain is already severely damaged, and the next one potentially kills him? What do you think the league will look like after a player actually dies on the field on national TV? Look how scary it was for Damar, only this time it's permanent.

 

The league who's more concerned with its image anything else... there will be DRAMATIC rule changes that may actually kill the sport the way it is today. They'll need to appear like they're making a dramatic overhaul right? Better helmets, more penalties & more armor won't be enough. They've done that before. Maybe we remove all that & go back to a more rugby style of football. Maybe they make it so tackling in general is gone. Flag football will be in the Olympics, so maybe they think it's time to reboot.

 

Does anyone want that? We already get mad about kickoff being changed every single year, the crazy protection QBs get (and Tua is a QB, yet this still happened to him), the banning of helmet to helmet/horse collar/hip drop/etc tackles, and all these rules meant to protect players. None of it helped Tua.

 

We don't know how bad CTE is until these athletes die & have their brains examined. What if Tua has smaller collisions that don't appear as concussions, then gets hit with another severe one? His brain is not going to magically heal & undo all this. 

 

You might be thinking about this in isolation to ONE player, but look at it on a wider scale. It won't just be the Dolphins or their doctors that get punished. The entire league will be negatively affected if Tua suffers another concussion. And if there's even a tiny possibility he could potentially die, the league NEEDS to step in for all our sakes.

 

Tua may say "it's worth the risk," but is it worth the risk to every NFL fan that the game they live could be irreversibly changed forever? I say no. 

 

The rules and equipment have been making the NFL incrementally safer for many years. After first digging in their heels around Elliott Pellman they finally saw that they were losing the battle and have instituted many rules changes (to protect QBs, to protect receivers, horse collar, hip drop, etc).

 

The Tua situation is very bad and looks very bad for the league but it shouldn't obscure the fact that the NFL has actually been increasing player safety for many years now.

 

[Simon]

3 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

To the bolded and as I said in a different topic, I could not make a blanket statement as to what I would or would not do.

 

For each person it's different but the decision is essentially a cost/benefit anaylysis.

 

Solely in the interests of clarification, I wasn't using the royal "you".

I was specifically referring to the madman I was responding to, who I've known for long enough to recognize he's as big of an idiot as I am. 

[mikemac2001]

Feel bad for tua but the way they handled the first concussion and saying it was a back issue and lying about it.

 

Then they put him out there on a short week and he gets knocked out I’m kind of glad they could be on the hook for his contract and brings attention to how they put the player 2nd and didn’t worry about there health.

 

glad he got paid as well I just had a feeling this would happen this year just not week 2 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Absurd--they can't force a grown man to retire.  He is well aware of the risks he incurs by playing.  

 

Where were you threads screaming for the Bills to force Morse to retire after countless concussions.  Look at Micah Hyde--had 2 seasons in a row with serious neck injury, had a cervical fusion and needs another....yet many here are craving to put his safety and health aside and join the Bills for a playoff run!

 

The Dolphin hate I get...butthis as the justification for your hate?  Nah...seems drummed up.  Everyone so concerned for a divisional rival QB's health!

 

come on...

 

 

I was at the game when Tua was knocked silly and they ended up putting him back in the game.  He clearly had no business being put back into that game and I mainly blame the Dolphins and the medical people on duty at the game.  It was obvious to people at the game watching him wobble off the field that he was severely compromised.  When I heard that he was injured again in another game, I was not surprised.  The severity of that incident finally prompted the changes to the concussion protocol.  It should not have taken that sequence of events to get him off the field.  Teams can't force players into retirement but their medical staffs can refuse to clear players to play.  For me, it isn't about any hate or dislike of a team or player.  It is about the exercise of common sense and doing the right thing.

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the owners are bound by the CBA.  There's no mechanism for an owner to force a player to quit, other than (see below)...

 

 

Yes, Wood failed a physical, based on radiological studies (he still planned on playing in the Pro Bowl).  That won't be possible with Tua...

Again if you read what I wrote I was not saying anything about forcing a player to quit.

 

What I did say is that the “ league “ aka the owners will insist the Miami owner has his Ducks in a row when inevitably Tua is cleared to play, 

 

Does that clear up my point for you? 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

As much as I’d love to blame this on the dolphins, it’s 100% on the player. They know the risks. This isn’t 1995. There are no secrets when it comes to the potential side effects and long term implications. I’m not saying it’s fair, or an easy position for him to be in…no do I blame him, but it’s Tua’s career/life/decision and passing off blame from the decision maker is unnecessarily seeking blame 

[benderbender]

12 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

IDK if this needs its own thread, I didn’t see one that seemed to fit, but feel free to merge it if appropriate.

 

I’m a doc, not a brain doc, but I’ve got enough experience with traumatic brain injury that I think I can opine with some credibility. I’ve always disliked Miami as a franchise but ever since 2022 I’ve had a searing hatred for them because I think they put Tua’s life in danger. 

 

The decision to allow Tua to play that Thursday night game after he got his first concussion against the Bills on a Sunday was criminal. When Tua fell/stumbled off the field and they said it was back spasms the NFL should have stepped in and said “WTF are you even thinking?!” That second concussion he suffered where he was fencing on the ground was the one that significantly scrambled his brain and has the potential to be life altering. Despite what that clown David Chao says, a fencing response is an indicator of a SEVERE concussion. You don’t get a fencing response on a minor concussion. What’s happening is near seizure like activity leading to spasticity and uncontrolled limb movements. 

 

We saw a fencing response from Tua again on Thursday night on what should have been a very minor head bonk. The reason Tua suffered another severe concussion on a minor hit was because his brain was significantly damaged back in 2022 and he’s highly vulnerable to future concussions and brain damage. There’s no question in my mind Tua should walk away from the game with his guaranteed millions and enjoy the rest of his life as healthy as he can. 

 

Miami is a disgusting franchise. The reason McDaniels looked so shell shocked on Thursday is because he knows he’s partially responsible for Tua’s marshmallow cranium. Every person who said it was ok for Tua to play that Thursday night in 2022, including the docs who signed off on it, should have been fired, and at the very least feel immense shame for what they did to Tua.

Glad to finally hear people coming around. Been saying this for years

On 10/19/2022 at 7:32 PM, benderbender said:

Lost all respect for McDaniel. The Pope himself could have cleared Tua for a concussion but he himself was the final gatekeeper. He did not choose his player’s health/safety/future. He looked into his glassy eyes and sold his football coaching soul when he told him he could play after he fell twice and had to be held up by his OLine. McDaniel does not deserve the free pass everyone gave him and the worst part is: he won’t even pay the steepest price for it.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

26 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I was at the game when Tua was knocked silly and they ended up putting him back in the game.  He clearly had no business being put back into that game and I mainly blame the Dolphins and the medical people on duty at the game.  It was obvious to people at the game watching him wobble off the field that he was severely compromised.  When I heard that he was injured again in another game, I was not surprised.  The severity of that incident finally prompted the changes to the concussion protocol.  It should not have taken that sequence of events to get him off the field.  Teams can't force players into retirement but their medical staffs can refuse to clear players to play.  For me, it isn't about any hate or dislike of a team or player.  It is about the exercise of common sense and doing the right thing.

 

Here are Tua's 3 concussions before Thursday night. Look at him wobbling after being hit by Milano:

 

 

Then they said it was a back injury and he played 4 days later. Unbelievable.

 

Edited September 15 by Sierra Foothills

[Thurman#1]

I'll chime in on this ...

 

... the minute I get access to Tua's medical records, full access to his doctors and to Tua and to his family.

 

Until then, I've got my opinions but I just don't think it's any of my business.