Tua’s Broken Dome (now being placed on IR-out at least 4 games)

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

You could argue that for sure, but I still don't blame Mcdaniel.

 

If the docs clear him to play, you go with what the doctors say.

 

At the end of the day it is a business with tens of millions of dollars on the line for Mcdaniel.

 

If he goes agains the docs and sits Tua out because he is a "good guy" and the dolphins season implode (which it probably would), then you can bet Stephen Ross would be looking for a new head coach and Mcdaniel probably doesn't have this new contract extension he just got.

 

I think it is easy for us to judge him, but put yourself in Mcdaniels shoes

 

 

The thing here is that McDaniels is a multi millionaire, aka set for life, he outside of his ego doesn’t even need the job, the NFL mindset/ system says that player health is not the top priority/ concern, it’s been this way since football, so yes, when one is indoctrinated into that life, you do what McDaniels did, it’s what makes football great and awful at the same time, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat…, 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

But the team is under no obligation to play him either. He could be cleared and then planted on the bench.  They could put him on the practice squad. No other team would touch him. But the cap hit is massive if they cut him before 2027. I think that he'll play if he wants to, and I think that he'll get another one of these in due time. There really isn't another option.

 

Pay him to sit?  Might as well cut him then.  

 

If he's cleared, they are playing him.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

The thing here is that McDaniels is a multi millionaire, aka set for life, he outside of his ego doesn’t even need the job, the NFL mindset/ system says that player health is not the top priority/ concern, it’s been this way since football, so yes, when one is indoctrinated into that life, you do what McDaniels did, it’s what makes football great and awful at the same time, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat…, 

Ok let me give you a scenario then.

You're the bills head coach and it's the AFC championship game coming up 

 

The game/week before, Josh looks like he has a head injury as he gets off the ground dizzy. (Think like Tua when Milano hit him in 2022)

 

But the docs clear him and they tell you he's good to play.

 

Are you playing Josh in the AFC championship game, or are you going against the docs and sitting him?

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

The thing here is that McDaniels is a multi millionaire, aka set for life, he outside of his ego doesn’t even need the job, the NFL mindset/ system says that player health is not the top priority/ concern, it’s been this way since football, so yes, when one is indoctrinated into that life, you do what McDaniels did, it’s what makes football great and awful at the same time, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat…, 

 

Note: Only one McDaniel coaches for Miami.

Quote

Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa has been “smiling with his teammates” and taking things “day by day” as he recovers from his latest concussion, according to head coach Mike McDaniel.

 

https://wsvn.com/sports/miami-dolphins-quarterback-tua-tagovailoa-smiling-with-his-teammates-and-taking-things-day-by-day-after-latest-concussion/

Quote

Tagovailoa has suffered multiple concussions in his NFL career, with the most recent coming after the Dolphins QB dove for a first down and took a hit from Bills safety Damar Hamlin.

 

Tagovailoa dove after he passed the first down line and hit Hamlin.  Mijami News altered that fact to make Tagovailoa look better.  They could post on TBD!

 

[Savage]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok let me give you a scenario then.

You're the bills head coach and it's the AFC championship game coming up 

 

The game/week before, Josh looks like he has a head injury as he gets off the ground dizzy. (Think like Tua when Milano hit him in 2022)

 

But the docs clear him and they tell you he's good to play.

 

Are you playing Josh in the AFC championship game, or are you going against the docs and sitting him?

Quite the conundrum.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Savage said:

Quite the conundrum.

 

 

For me this might sound bad...  but it's a no brainer. I'm playing him 

[Savage]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

For me this might sound bad...  but it's a no brainer. I'm playing him 

Me too.

 

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok let me give you a scenario then.

You're the bills head coach and it's the AFC championship game coming up 

 

The game/week before, Josh looks like he has a head injury as he gets off the ground dizzy. (Think like Tua when Milano hit him in 2022)

 

But the docs clear him and they tell you he's good to play.

 

Are you playing Josh in the AFC championship game, or are you going against the docs and sitting him?

I totally cop out and leave up to Josh, lol,

 

it’s very hard to make decisions that directly effect the wellbeing of others, one has to go on the concept of good faith judgements and live with the consequences,

[BillsShredder83]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

You could argue that for sure, but I still don't blame Mcdaniel.

 

If the docs clear him to play, you go with what the doctors say.

 

At the end of the day it is a business with tens of millions of dollars on the line for Mcdaniel.

 

If he goes agains the docs and sits Tua out because he is a "good guy" and the dolphins season implodes (which it probably would), then you can bet Stephen Ross would be looking for a new head coach and Mcdaniel probably doesn't have this new contract extension he just got.

 

I think it is easy for us to judge him, but put yourself in Mcdaniels shoes

 

 

McDaniel as a young coach has more at stake too. Young,first head coach job. Get fired for essentially insubordination, and I don't know he has the track record to get another HC job anytime soon.

 

His chance to fix that is in progress and jury is still out, if he can keep the ship upright a few years successfully, he'll have job security as a hireable coach... even if it's not Miami.

 

If doctors are telling him Tua needs a month and then clear him, he'd be sabotaging his own career, and Tua's at same time. Who is he to tell Tua and a doctor they're wrong, all to flush his career.

 

Tough decision for sure. I wouldn't lose respect if he let Tua play. And if he believes in his heart he's putting Tua in serious jeopardy and makes a stand. I'd respect the hell outta that... but he's a captain going down with the ship if it's that

 

 

[Beck Water]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Hmm I just checked spotrac and you are correct. Weird, I could swear I heard from the locked on dolphins guy that the number was in the 30s

 

I mean, that may be what the Locked on Dolphins guy said, but as far as what Spotrac indicates (and they're usually pretty good) it's way higher than that.

After 2025, it's down to Diggs-ish levels of hellishness though Spotrac isn't very clear on the structure of the option bonuses.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47598/tua-tagovailoa

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

I totally cop out and leave up to Josh, lol,

 

it’s very hard to make decisions that directly effect the wellbeing of others, one has to go on the concept of good faith judgements and live with the consequences,

Totally fair, you know Josh would want to play though haha. Just like Tua wants too. So to answer my scenario, it sounds like you would play him then

58 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

McDaniel as a young coach has more at stake too. Young,first head coach job. Get fired for essentially insubordination, and I don't know he has the track record to get another HC job anytime soon.

 

His chance to fix that is in progress and jury is still out, if he can keep the ship upright a few years successfully, he'll have job security as a hireable coach... even if it's not Miami.

 

If doctors are telling him Tua needs a month and then clear him, he'd be sabotaging his own career, and Tua's at same time. Who is he to tell Tua and a doctor they're wrong, all to flush his career.

 

Tough decision for sure. I wouldn't lose respect if he let Tua play. And if he believes in his heart he's putting Tua in serious jeopardy and makes a stand. I'd respect the hell outta that... but he's a captain going down with the ship if it's that

 

 

Doctors didn't tell him that he needed a month and then cleared him though. Assuming you're talking about the 2022 Tua incident after the bills game 

Unless you meant after the cinci incident 

Edited yesterday at 12:30 AM by BillsFan130

[Don Otreply]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Totally fair, you know Josh would want to play though haha. Just like Tua wants too. So to answer my scenario, it sounds like you would play him then

Doctors didn't tell him that he needed a month and then cleared him though. Assuming you're talking about the 2022 Tua season.

They cleared him right away 

If Josh was laying on the ground twitching after several concussions I would not play him, if he went through what I will call a minor hit/concussion, I would play him, based on my vast medical knowledge…, lol, hypotheticals are so much fun, 

[BillsFan130]

22 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

If Josh was laying on the ground twitching after several concussions I would not play him, if he went through what I will call a minor hit/concussion, I would play him, based on my vast medical knowledge…, lol, hypotheticals are so much fun, 

In 2022 after Tua got hit by Milano, he hadn't had several concussions at that time though and he wasn't twitching on the ground during that game.

It is a hypothetical, but that hypothetical I gave you is the same situation as Tua in 2022 that McDaniel was dealing with. Only difference is that it's a AFC championship game with the hypothetical. (Funny how the magnitude of the game can change things)

 

So you disagreed with Mcdaniel in how he handled it in 2022, but you're actually agreeing with him based on the answer you gave me with the hypothetical 

Edited yesterday at 12:56 AM by BillsFan130

[Georgia Bill]

On 9/14/2024 at 11:21 PM, Turk71 said:

Tua definitely could have helped himself by not running head first into the defender like a battering ram. What was he thinking, he already had the first down easily. It was senseless self destruction.....that said, I was in disbelief when they trotted him back out after getting knocked unconscious and loopy a couple years ago. That was seriously ***** up

I know the big discussion here is about whether or not Tua should retire, but I keep seeing video clips and news quotes that talk about Tua taking a hard hit, concussed after a hard hit by Damar Hamiln, etc.  It does not look to me like Damar "hit" Tua hard at all.  Like you said, Tua puts his head down like a battering ram and slams into Damar.  The "hit" was the hit that Damar laid on Hamlin.   It just bothers me, one video even talked about Tua being concussed again by the Bills.  Damar did nothing wrong at all.  If you know that hits to your head cause you problems, you shouldn't go hitting things with your head.

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, Georgia Bill said:

I know the big discussion here is about whether or not Tua should retire, but I keep seeing video clips and news quotes that talk about Tua taking a hard hit, concussed after a hard hit by Damar Hamiln, etc.  It does not look to me like Damar "hit" Tua hard at all.  Like you said, Tua puts his head down like a battering ram and slams into Damar.  The "hit" was the hit that Damar laid on Hamlin.   It just bothers me, one video even talked about Tua being concussed again by the Bills.  Damar did nothing wrong at all.  If you know that hits to your head cause you problems, you shouldn't go hitting things with your head.

 

Miami news keeps reporting it that way and many media outlets are repeating it.

 

I have posted about this in a couple of threads.

[ColoradoBills]

8 hours ago, Mango said:

Everyday companies and government agencies across theses here United States force people into retirement What world do you live in?

 

 

It happened to me when the company I worked for over 32 years was bought out by a multi-national conglomerate.

I took the deal they offered.  In the long run it was nice retiring at 58.

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

Damar did nothing wrong at all. Tua was wrong to even be on the field. He should retire and live his life.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

If Josh was laying on the ground twitching after several concussions I would not play him, if he went through what I will call a minor hit/concussion, I would play him, based on my vast medical knowledge…, lol, hypotheticals are so much fun, 

you’re talking from a dr point of view though. If you were a head coach that relies on drs to give that opinion and the dr clears him to play, probably be a different story. 

[Mango]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

You must not have no  HR department where you work.  Hes broken no rules, violated no contract.  he would have to be fired for cause (which is what?).
 

NFL is a union shop. NFLPA will never allow such a precedent unless it’s bargained for. 
 

If he is cleared medically to play, I see no mechanism for the team (let alone the league) to “fire” him.  They can cut him and take the hit I guess.  
 

maybe he will take a settlement and enjoy his money for the rest of his life

Tua, you’re cut for being an injury liability. We don’t think you’ll be nearly as good post injury. 

 

Teams all across the league cut players post major injury all the time. 
 

Done. No HR needed. 

[Mango]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Question:

Those companies have a pretty strong union like the NFLPA and a CBA?

Those people have a contract with the specific subsidiary of those companies with $93M fully guaranteed (40% of the subsidiary's allotted personnel budget)?

 

See how more complicated it gets with the injection of a few real parameters?

 

 

 

You got the digits swapped.  Tua has a dead cap for 2025 of $83M.  After that it falls to something reasonable.

I think two different conversations are happening simultaneously. His payment and the ending of his career. 
 

In my mind Tua retires/is cut because he cannot safely compete anymore. His contract is guaranteed against injury. He gets paid his $160M or whatever:

 

Even in a scenario where the team doctor clears Tua but another doctor doesn’t, there is no way that the Dolphins nor the NFL want to sit in front of a judge and rewatch the 2022 Bills game, then again 4 days later, then this. 
 

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It happened to me when the company I worked for over 32 years was bought out by a multi-national conglomerate.

I took the deal they offered.  In the long run it was nice retiring at 58.

 

 

“You must not have an HR department” - @Mr. WEO