The QB school - Josh Allen Week 2 analysis - JT O'Sullivan

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No disrespect at all Happy, but you seem rooted in a preseason narrative more than objectively looking at what’s going on the field the first 2 weeks.  Some of what you are saying is like you’re really trying to make that square peg fit the round hole with the square peg being your preseason thoughts and the hole being what they have done thus far.

 

The commitment to downplaying the creativity on the Cook TD is a prime example.  A play that had brought a ton of All-22 review from many analysts drawing a high praise for what a great play design and execution it was.  

 

I admitted I did downplay the Cook TD. Great play call and great job making sure everyone was ready to execute.

 

As far as preseason narratives I stand by my concerns about the outside WRs. It remains a weakness in the offense. I was unsure Brady had what it takes to overcome the lack of talent at those spots but he has passed his first two tests.

 

One thing I am already going to back off on though is I said in the offseason I didn't think our offense would be able to out-perform the Chiefs offense last year. But through two weeks we look significantly better than they did. One factor I probably discounted too much is our OTs compared to theirs. They have us beat on the interior by a wide margin but offenses continues to run through the edges and Dawkins/Brown is a MUCH better tandem than they had last year.

 

Also Allen so far this year is playing the most intelligent QBing I've seen out of him in his career. Zero interceptions and only one truly dumb mistake.  He isn't forcing things and he's manipulating defenses with his eyes at an elite level. The mechanics have been on point as well. I'm sure Brady simplifying things and leaning on his players' strengths is contributing to all this. Along with a certain crybaby being excised from the locker room.

 

Lots to like about the look of the offense through two weeks. Everybody is playing under control and not panicking after some adversity inevitably hits. No frustrated outbursts on the sidelines or in the coach's box. Tougher tests to come but it's already looking better than I expected.

[balln]

Still don’t like the overall philosophy of the offense. It better not be 60/40 run / pass. And the passing game be 50/50 Allen bailing pockets and rolling right improv plays. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I admitted I did downplay the Cook TD. Great play call and great job making sure everyone was ready to execute.

 

As far as preseason narratives I stand by my concerns about the outside WRs. It remains a weakness in the offense. I was unsure Brady had what it takes to overcome the lack of talent at those spots but he has passed his first two tests.

 

One thing I am already going to back off on though is I said in the offseason I didn't think our offense would be able to out-perform the Chiefs offense last year. But through two weeks we look significantly better than they did. One factor I probably discounted too much is our OTs compared to theirs. They have us beat on the interior by a wide margin but offenses continues to run through the edges and Dawkins/Brown is a MUCH better tandem than they had last year.

 

Also Allen so far this year is playing the most intelligent QBing I've seen out of him in his career. Zero interceptions and only one truly dumb mistake.  He isn't forcing things and he's manipulating defenses with his eyes at an elite level. The mechanics have been on point as well. I'm sure Brady simplifying things and leaning on his players' strengths is contributing to all this. Along with a certain crybaby being excised from the locker room.

 

Lots to like about the look of the offense through two weeks. Everybody is playing under control and not panicking after some adversity inevitably hits. No frustrated outbursts on the sidelines or in the coach's box. Tougher tests to come but it's already looking better than I expected.

All good, and nice response.  I actually deleted my post before you replied as I didn’t want it to come off wrong or in a way I didn’t intend.  I just wasn’t connecting with some of your earlier comments and must have missed some of the more updated ones.  But luckily at least it doesn’t look like you took it wrong.  
 

Again, good follow up and very fair response

[hondo in seattle]

JT notices things I didn't notice watching live.   Good stuff.  

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I regret saying it was a middling night. That's not a fair characterization. But nor do I believe it was a coaching clinic. I don't see innovation. Players are by and large just being asked to win their assignments. And that's fine. The players are at least being given assignments that their skill sets allow them to have a chance of winning. I'll take that over Dorsey who was, for example, asking Gabe Davis and Josh Allen to try and read an option route the same way even though it was as likely to result in an INT as a completion. Or asking Diggs to get YAC on bubble screens. No doubt we have vastly improved on his grab bag play sheet.

 

The 4th and 3 TD is a great example of a play where no one had to win their assignment, just run a pick play without making it too obvious to draw a penalty, deliver the pass and catch the ball. That's great stuff from Brady. He's still relatively young and inexperienced too. He has time to grow into an elite offensive coach. There are signs that the potential is there.

 

I mean there are what like maybe 3-4 truely innovating Coordinators in the league.  Three of them are head coaches.  Expecting us to hire some innovative super nerd is asking a bit much.  I dont care about innovation.  I just want the offense to make sense.  This offense makes sense. Unlike Dorseys.

 

I also want to point out to the people that complained Josh didnt hit Diggs for the first down and instead tried to make a harder pass to Shakir for a TD last year.... aint none of you complained he didnt take the easier first down here.  This is the TD play to Ty.  He had Knox for a much easier FD.

 

Edited September 14 by Scott7975

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You don’t think I was serious do you when I typed “Overrated.”?  Not sure if this reply is because you think that wasn’t sarcastic or if you know that and you’re just more initiating some convo.  To be clear, mine was a sarcastic comment.

Of course I know that. I was just pointing out Allen’s game on TNF (where he did everything he needed to do and could basically chill in the 2nd half) was a game where people would call Lamar overrated on his way to a MVP. 
 

if the Bills have like 6 of these type games where Allen doesn’t have to put up huge numbers on the way to a MVP, it should be a positive thing and not used against him. And that’s why Lamar won MVP last year. 

[balln]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean there are what like maybe 3-4 truely innovating Coordinators in the league.  Three of them are head coaches.  Expecting us to hire some innovative super nerd is asking a bit much.  I dont care about innovation.  I just want the offense to make sense.  This offense makes sense. Unlike Dorseys.

 

I also want to point out to the people that complained Josh didnt hit Diggs for the first down and instead tried to make a harder pass to Shakir for a TD last year.... aint none of you complained he didnt take the easier first down here.  This is the TD play to Ty.  He had Knox for a much easier FD.

 

Good catch. This is his biggest flaw. He will always go for the home run ball. He needs to hit Knox/play  8 out of 10 Times a game. Where as to Johnson/ play  a low percentage the other 2 times. 

[billsrul120]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Of course I know that. I was just pointing out Allen’s game on TNF (where he did everything he needed to do and could basically chill in the 2nd half) was a game where people would call Lamar overrated on his way to a MVP. 
 

if the Bills have like 6 of these type games where Allen doesn’t have to put up huge numbers on the way to a MVP, it should be a positive thing and not used against him. And that’s why Lamar won MVP last year. 

I would take a look at Lamar stats and the ending scores of their games. I don’t think this narrative holds up

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Of course I know that. I was just pointing out Allen’s game on TNF (where he did everything he needed to do and could basically chill in the 2nd half) was a game where people would call Lamar overrated on his way to a MVP. 
 

if the Bills have like 6 of these type games where Allen doesn’t have to put up huge numbers on the way to a MVP, it should be a positive thing and not used against him. And that’s why Lamar won MVP last year. 

 

Figured that was the case

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I admitted I did downplay the Cook TD. Great play call and great job making sure everyone was ready to execute.

 

As far as preseason narratives I stand by my concerns about the outside WRs. It remains a weakness in the offense. I was unsure Brady had what it takes to overcome the lack of talent at those spots but he has passed his first two tests.

 

One thing I am already going to back off on though is I said in the offseason I didn't think our offense would be able to out-perform the Chiefs offense last year. But through two weeks we look significantly better than they did. One factor I probably discounted too much is our OTs compared to theirs. They have us beat on the interior by a wide margin but offenses continues to run through the edges and Dawkins/Brown is a MUCH better tandem than they had last year.

 

Also Allen so far this year is playing the most intelligent QBing I've seen out of him in his career. Zero interceptions and only one truly dumb mistake.  He isn't forcing things and he's manipulating defenses with his eyes at an elite level. The mechanics have been on point as well. I'm sure Brady simplifying things and leaning on his players' strengths is contributing to all this. Along with a certain crybaby being excised from the locker room.

 

Lots to like about the look of the offense through two weeks. Everybody is playing under control and not panicking after some adversity inevitably hits. No frustrated outbursts on the sidelines or in the coach's box. Tougher tests to come but it's already looking better than I expected.

 

I think what is yet to be tested is can they win a true shootout. A game where it is clear at half time you might need to score every time you touch the ball second half and the run is taken out of it a bit and they have to be a volume passing offense. We haven't seen that. Houston is the week I think we might.

[Sierra Foothills]

34 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I mean there are what like maybe 3-4 truely innovating Coordinators in the league.  Three of them are head coaches.  Expecting us to hire some innovative super nerd is asking a bit much.  I dont care about innovation.  I just want the offense to make sense.  This offense makes sense. Unlike Dorseys.

 

Agreed.

 

To those who want a brilliant, creative innovator... be careful what you wish for (I'm looking at you Mike McDaniel).

 

You know, this is still football. Deception and trickery only go so far and they're poor substitutes for more important football qualities.

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, balln said:

Still don’t like the overall philosophy of the offense. It better not be 60/40 run / pass. And the passing game be 50/50 Allen bailing pockets and rolling right improv plays. 

 

Of the three roll out / improvs I saw in my breakdown of the first 3 drives, two were on Josh. One for dropping the snap. The other he missed Shakir wide open in the middle. The one he made the superman play to Johnson fair enough. That is Josh making something from nothing.

3 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Agreed.

 

To those who want a brilliant, creative innovator... be careful what you wish for (I'm looking at you Mike McDaniel).

 

You know, this is still football. Deception and trickery only go so far and they're poor substitutes for more important football qualities.

 

 

Yea McDaniel is an innovator. He isn't suited to being a Head Coach. I'd consider hiring him though if I needed an OC and he became available.

[Saxum]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think what is yet to be tested is can they win a true shootout. A game where it is clear at half time you might need to score every time you touch the ball second half and the run is taken out of it a bit and they have to be a volume passing offense. We haven't seen that. Houston is the week I think we might.

 

We need to see a Bills Stampede too with current team where Bills are determined to run it down the field and nothing you can do can stop it like Cowboys game.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 minute ago, Punching Bag said:

We need to see a Bills Stampede too with current team where Bills are determined to run it down the field and nothing you can do can stop it like Cowboys game.

 

 

And this is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned "more important football qualities."

 

Imagine Josh operating an offense where the defense is highly concerned about being able to stop our running backs...

 

 

[Saxum]

42 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

And this is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned "more important football qualities."

 

Imagine Josh operating an offense where the defense is highly concerned about being able to stop our running backs...

 

 

We have had multiple games with 9+ receivers.  I'd love to see game where Bills just use backfield sweeps and fakes to get many players with carries.

[RoscoeParrish]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of the three roll out / improvs I saw in my breakdown of the first 3 drives, two were on Josh. One for dropping the snap. The other he missed Shakir wide open in the middle. The one he made the superman play to Johnson fair enough. That is Josh making something from nothing.

 

Yea McDaniel is an innovator. He isn't suited to being a Head Coach. I'd consider hiring him though if I needed an OC and he became available.

I’m not sure McDaniel is suited as an OC either.

 

He’s obviously a great offensive mind, and has some great creativity.

 

He is an undisciplined play caller. Which is why McD takes such advantage of him in games.

 

We let them gash us on the ground and just stayed in our defensive gameplan. McDaniel would not stick to running and getting 8 yards a pop, call 2 pass plays and they would stall the drive or turn it over.

 

The Dolphins had their chance to stay in that game and McDaniel hoisted himself on his own petard.

Edited September 14 by RoscoeParrish

[ToGoGo]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean there are what like maybe 3-4 truely innovating Coordinators in the league.  Three of them are head coaches.  Expecting us to hire some innovative super nerd is asking a bit much.  I dont care about innovation.  I just want the offense to make sense.  This offense makes sense. Unlike Dorseys.

 

I also want to point out to the people that complained Josh didnt hit Diggs for the first down and instead tried to make a harder pass to Shakir for a TD last year.... aint none of you complained he didnt take the easier first down here.  This is the TD play to Ty.  He had Knox for a much easier FD.

 

They’re people who don’t know how to win telling a winner how to win. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Of course I know that. I was just pointing out Allen’s game on TNF (where he did everything he needed to do and could basically chill in the 2nd half) was a game where people would call Lamar overrated on his way to a MVP. 
 

if the Bills have like 6 of these type games where Allen doesn’t have to put up huge numbers on the way to a MVP, it should be a positive thing and not used against him. And that’s why Lamar won MVP last year. 

 

Would you call Allen the MVP of this game or Cook or maybe the defense that got 3 turnovers. One of those being a pick 6.  Allen did what he needed to do to win the game. I wouldn't call it an MVP performance just like I wouldn't call Jacksons season last year an MVP season.

Edited September 14 by Scott7975

[Sierra Foothills]

17 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Would you call Allen the MVP of this game or Cook or maybe the defense that got 3 turnovers. One of those being a pick 6.  Allen did what he needed to do to win the game. I wouldn't call it an MVP performance just like I wouldn't call Jacksons season last year an MVP season.

 

To play devil's advocate, what if Josh doesn't make those miraculous throws to Ty Johnson and Shakir?

 

And no one yet has commented on how actually difficult and perfect his throw to Cook for the TD was. The DB was squarely in the passing lane and very vertical and there's tons of QBs who can't execute a simple swing pass or a screen pass. How many times have we see similar balls tipped and intercepted?

 

So we're very fortunate to be able to take much for granted.

 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

To play devil's advocate, what if Josh doesn't make those miraculous throws to Ty Johnson and Shakir?

 

And no one yet has commented on how actually difficult and perfect his throw to Cook for the TD was. The DB was squarely in the passing lane and very vertical and there's tons of QBs who can't execute a simple swing pass or a screen pass. How many times have we see similar balls tipped and intercepted?

 

So we're very fortunate to be able to take much for granted.

 

 

Incredible throws for sure. The Cook throw is pretty standard though.  Yeah it may get tipped but its still a pretty standard throw that happens all the time from any QB. I still don't view it as an MVP performance. To me an MVP carried the team. Cook carried the offense this week. The defense kinda carried the team getting 3 turnovers, pick 6, and giving us short fields.  Of course, to the people who vote, pretty much all that matters is who was the better 1 seed.

 

Of course Josh can still have an MVP season and I think he will, but this specific game I wouldnt call it that.  This is the typical game for Lamar almost every week last year.

Edited September 14 by Scott7975