What to do at safety?

[YattaOkasan]

19 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Rapp and Hamlin at Safety for now.

Rapp and Bishop in the future.

 

Cam as the Dime SS for now.

Taron as the Nickel when he comes back, which means we play less Dime.

 

As exciting as Ingram was yesterday, he was an Undrafted Free Agent 2 years ago and wasn't good enough to make any roster in 2022 and 2023. He's definitely showing some juice, but implying that he will somehow replace Taron, Hamlin, Bishop, or even Mike Edwards is crazy.

I dont think we see less Dime.  Plan was to have Lewis play dime on passing downs against cards and they just had to move everyone up a peg when taron went down.  Dorian has been getting better but he (and Baylon to a lesser extent) are weaker in coverage.  Before the Cards game I was trying to figure out who the dime backer would be.  I assumed safety like last year but Lewis makes a lot of sense given his ability to play nickel and safety.  So in all, Dime is here to stay.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Not sure I registered it, but didn't he have a really strong PBU in the endzone yesterday (Bishop I mean?)  It was at the end of the game, but good coverage.

 

 

This.  Ingram is not playing safety, he's their dime back, which is a role Lewis was filling until Johnson went down.  And he's filling it well.

 

But we're not gonna see Ingram competing with Rapp or Hamlin at safety.

 

 

 

And for people asking about Elam - its a different animal.  No sideline boundaries, lots of zone looks, and you have to tackle as much as attack the catch point.  

Just now, YattaOkasan said:

I dont think we see less Dime.  Plan was to have Lewis play dime on passing downs against cards and they just had to move everyone up a peg when taron went down.  Dorian has been getting better but he (and Baylon to a lesser extent) are weaker in coverage.  Before the Cards game I was trying to figure out who the dime backer would be.  I assumed safety like last year but Lewis makes a lot of sense given his ability to play nickel and safety.  So in all, Dime is here to stay.

 

They know Williams would be a player they would target on 3rd downs.  Put more speed and ball skills out there and teams are more likely to go underneath and force you to tackle.  

 

The first pick i thought for sure they were throwing short of the sticks with that defensive alignment, and tua threw a deeper throw before his guy turned his head.  It's a timing issue, but turnovers are created when you play into the defenses hands like that.  

[GASabresIUFan]

I trust McD and Babich to play the right guys when they are ready.  Nice to see Bishop get in the game.  Hopefully Edwards gets up to speed as well.  With Lewis and Ingram getting great in game experience, Hamlin playing solidly if unspectacularly, and the injured guys returning to health, the areas of concern, CB depth and the entire safety group, seemed to be falling by the wayside and the defensive backfield is becoming a strength of this defense.

[YattaOkasan]

Love the defensive strategy of keep everything in front and tackle in the back 7 and let the D line eat.  If Josh gets a lead you have to consider sitting back there with Groot, Von, Epenesa, and Ed coming in that pass rush package.  Thats gonna be a problem for teams. 

[gonzo1105]

I fully expect Hamlin to continue starting until they feel Bishop is ready. I also don’t think he’ll change it until there is a reason to. 

[MPL]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

31 minutes ago, MPL said:

My guess is more of the same. Ingram in for Dime packages. I think Bishop eventually replaces Hamlin. I think the coaching staff really like Rapp. 

 

Maybe the coaching staff should put their bodies in harm's way by trying to Do Their Job and make a tackle while Rapp is launching himself head-first into their knees and ankles

I heard a rumor that after every game, the bills coaching staff stands in a triangle formation and Josh Allen rolls Taylor Rapp up into a bowling ball and hurtles him at the coaches. I've heard he's rolled a few spares, but never gotten a strike. I don't know. Probably just a rumor. 

[Success]

We all know how this staff tends to ease rookies in slowly - but I really think they have to put Bishop out there now.  He'll likely have some growing pains, but he's a 2nd rounder, he clearly has some talent and they should get him fully acclimated by the playoffs. 

 

He could be a difference-maker, imo.

 

[DCofNC]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Bills just held a potent passing offense with two star receivers to 10 points in their house.

I think I'm less concerned about our two starting safeties than most others. Neither are stars, and both leave some plays on the field, but overall, as a unit, the defense was humming last night.

Long term -- possibly by midseason -- Cole Bishop will be the starting free safety, with Rapp likely remaining the starting strong safety. But honestly, the foursome of Bishop, Rapp, Hamlin, and Edwards, with Lewis as break-glass-in-case-of-emergency depth there, is a better group than I think some give it credit for.

Well they DID, but that’s not really the case because they were absolutely going to give up more when Tua went down.  They were in the 6 yard line, 1st and goal, McDaniels went desperation mode and turned it over on downs with their back up QB.   Let’s be real, they would have given up ~20-24 points with Tua out there.  They were also selling out to keep the ball in front of them and getting gashed by the RBs, so it’s not all roses.  Had Tua not thrown the ball up for grabs multiple times, this would be a very different conversation.  The success was not really on the Safteys being good so much as Tua being pretty awful.

[Mat68]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Bills just held a potent passing offense with two star receivers to 10 points in their house.

I think I'm less concerned about our two starting safeties than most others. Neither are stars, and both leave some plays on the field, but overall, as a unit, the defense was humming last night.

Long term -- possibly by midseason -- Cole Bishop will be the starting free safety, with Rapp likely remaining the starting strong safety. But honestly, the foursome of Bishop, Rapp, Hamlin, and Edwards, with Lewis as break-glass-in-case-of-emergency depth there, is a better group than I think some give it credit for.

 Bishop will eventually factor in.  Right now the defense is playing very well.  Gave up 20 points to Arizona and 10 to Miami.  Murray and Tua both had very pedestrian passing numbers.  Bishop and Edwards missed most of training camp have only been practicing now a few weeks.  Hamlin and Rapp are familiar with the defense and scheme. They were first guys up.  So far they have played well.
 

Hamlin put the hat on the coverage and rallied up to make the tackles when the team needed him to.  Hamlin had his best game since 2022.  Some speculated off his play before his accident he was the successor to Hyde.  He was written off last season because he was a shell of himself.  Who could blame him?  He looked like that guy again last night.  Buffalo looks to be in better shape on defense than many expected. Hamlin is a big part of it. 

[ProcessImproverMan]

21 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Fair assessment.

People who disagree really lack a proper understanding of McDermott's record in the context of NFL History.

 

The Bills have beaten two teams led by backup QBS in the playoffs (Steelers and Dolphins), a washed up Philip Rivers Colts team, a Patriots team with Jones whose poor play led him to being kicked off the team and a Ravens team in a huge wind storm game that was very close where we beat Lamar Jackson. That Ravens win was great against a great team but the other playoff wins not so much.

 

McDermott's defense meanwhile blew it against the Texas and Watson when we had the lead, blew against the Chiefs in the 13 seconds game (2021 season), and really blew it last year as the Bills offense did enough to win but our defense couldn't stop anything really for a good portion of the game (and people shouldn't use the injury excuse - the Patriots won a Super Bowl under Belichick with a wide receiver, Troy Brown, playing CB in 2003/2004ish because so many defensive players were injured and the Patriots made it to other Super Bowls to win with numerous injuries - Allen has played factually/statistically/eye test better than Brady in many playoff games but doesn't have the wins to support it due to our poorly coached defense). We got completely outclassed in another Chiefs playoff win in 2020 season and the Bengals in the 2022 season. When McDermott coached (and often picked) defensive players go up against competent offenses in the playoffs, they usually choke.

 

Same story with Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis. They padded their records during the regular season but choked against very good QBs in the playoffs (Elway, Kelly, Roethlisberger, Brady, etc).

 

Belichick was known for crossing lines to win if necessary, which McDermott refuses to do so... During the Patriots/Colts playoff games in 2003/2004, Belichick had Patriot defenders mug/hold/interfere with Colts players every play knowing the refs wouldn't call it every time. McDermott could have had defenders just grab Chiefs players at the line, get the 5 yard penalty, and waste clock in the 13 second game to prevent that. Belichick frequently did little creative things to win, cross lines, and McDermott doesn't. Andy Reid does it and wins.

 

Allen is good enough to get a Super Bowl, and has had record breaking post season games. The coaching is a huge issue. 

[gonzo1105]

4 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Well they DID, but that’s not really the case because they were absolutely going to give up more when Tua went down.  They were in the 6 yard line, 1st and goal, McDaniels went desperation mode and turned it over on downs with their back up QB.   Let’s be real, they would have given up ~20-24 points with Tua out there.  They were also selling out to keep the ball in front of them and getting gashed by the RBs, so it’s not all roses.  Had Tua not thrown the ball up for grabs multiple times, this would be a very different conversation.  The success was not really on the Safteys being good so much as Tua being pretty awful.

They were clearly willing to let Miami run it as much as they wanted. Made some big run stops and then forced their passing game into bad decisions 

[MikePJ76]

The Bills safeties were excellent yesterday, their patience and ability to be exactly where they were supposed to be kept the dolphins from hitting any big plays.

 

Not sure what the question is here.  

[DCofNC]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

They were clearly willing to let Miami run it as much as they wanted. Made some big run stops and then forced their passing game into bad decisions 

Those bad decisions were the real difference for sure.  The one thing that really concerns me is it looks like we are back to having to completely sell out to stop one facet of the game again.

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, Blackbeard said:

Side note:  THANK YOU McD for getting the most out of what we have.

 

We have a TERRIFIC head coach.  Shameful the flack this guy sometimes gets from some of this uninformed, not-understanding football, fan base.  

 

We are LUCKY to have him.  

Would you be saying this if they lose to the Chiefs AGAIN in January?

 

We shall see.

[BigAl2526]

It's amazing to me that an area of concern (safety) a few months ago might soon be considered an area of strength.  Both the starters and backups could be considered starter quality players in the near future.

[Blackbeard]

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

Would you be saying this if they lose to the Chiefs AGAIN in January?

 

We shall see.

I'm not saying he's perfect.  But his record against the Chiefs isn't bad compared to other teams.

 

We cannot expect a Super Bowl year after year.  There are 31 other teams that don't win it each year.  

 

You're seemingly holding McD to some impossible standard.  He's a damn good coach.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Move Rapp to linebacker. 

 

I'm not even joking. With Milano and Bernard out for an unforseen amount of time, and TJ still in recovery tell me other player the Bills have that 

 

A) Hits like a Mack truck

B) know coverage schemes

C) is faster than a D lineman

 

I also have zero issues with rolling out thick nickel and dime

Edited September 13 by WhitewalkerInPhilly

[noacls]

56 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

And for people asking about Elam - its a different animal.  No sideline boundaries, lots of zone looks, and you have to tackle as much as attack the catch point.  

 

They know Williams would be a player they would target on 3rd downs.  Put more speed and ball skills out there and teams are more likely to go underneath and force you to tackle.  

 

The first pick i thought for sure they were throwing short of the sticks with that defensive alignment, and tua threw a deeper throw before his guy turned his head.  It's a timing issue, but turnovers are created when you play into the defenses hands like that.  

They got slower and less athletic taking Williams out. The only DB's on active roster with better 40 times than Williams are Elam and Bishop. 

[Awwufelloff]

Call up Hyde 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

49 minutes ago, Success said:

We all know how this staff tends to ease rookies in slowly - but I really think they have to put Bishop out there now.  He'll likely have some growing pains, but he's a 2nd rounder, he clearly has some talent and they should get him fully acclimated by the playoffs. 

 

He could be a difference-maker, imo.

 

I agree except about the easing rookies thing as that has been overblown.

 

I feel like the best safety combo would be Edwards playing the Hyde role and Bishop the Poyer role. But that would mean both Rapp and Hamlin go to the bench. Still I think if everyone had been healthy Edwards and Bishop would have won the starting jobs.