Tua Contract Question

[HardyBoy]

2 hours ago, 298Woody said:

If he does not have medical approval to play they have to pay him the bulk of the contract. If he retires on his own they only owe this years salary.

Is that confirmed? Also I can’t imagine if he had an independent neurologist saying that yes, he could play today, but the risk to his long term health is too significant because of how not relatively hard that hit was that caused him to go into fencer posture and subsequent significant concussion could happen even easier and have major lasting impacts…

 

like the team fully knew his history and still made him an offer. I can’t see how him retiring citing concussions and having a personal doctor not sign off on him playing wouldn’t allow him to have his injury guarantee kick in, especially where he could say to the judge or arbiter, “these people massively messed up my care, and they even fired a neurologist who cleared me in the past, they cannot be trusted to give my patient clearance to play.”

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Is that confirmed? Also I can’t imagine if he had an independent neurologist saying that yes, he could play today, but the risk to his long term health is too significant because of how not relatively hard that hit was that caused him to go into fencer posture and subsequent significant concussion could happen even easier and have major lasting impacts…

 

like the team fully knew his history and still made him an offer. I can’t see how him retiring citing concussions and having a personal doctor not sign off on him playing wouldn’t allow him to have his injury guarantee kick in, especially where he could say to the judge or arbiter, “these people massively messed up my care, and they even fired a neurologist who cleared me in the past, they cannot be trusted to give my patient clearance to play.”

Exhibit A: Tua forgetting how to walk against the Bills.

"They put this mother ***** back in."

"Said it was a "back injury"."

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

I'm not talking about cash. I'm interested in cap. In the past, a player retiring is the same as him getting cut or traded: the remainder of the guaranteed money gets accelerated onto the next year’s cap. Like there has been a lot of conversation about Kelce's contract implication if he retires. I don't believe what amount of cash Tua gets paid matters for that purpose. I haven't seen anyone referencing solid information though so I'd love to know more.

 

From a post on Twitter that I read but can't find now, it said that Fins only have contract insured for 49.3 out of the 167+ million guaranteed, so they would be on the hook for the other $122 million...

 

And as far as I know once a player retires that money gets accelerated to the cap immediately.

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, 298Woody said:

If he does not have medical approval to play they have to pay him the bulk of the contract. If he retires on his own they only owe this years salary.

 

I could a scenario where Goodell for the integrity and protection of the sport longterm, tells independent neurologists that the NFL is paying, BTW, that they are never going to clear Tua to play medically.

 

They work with Tua and the agent to ensure he is fully paid out his entire contract and signs and NDA that forbids him from talking about this.

 

Why? Goodell was in attendance last night and once again witnessed a fencing reaction on Primetime TV by Tua, ensuring millions of Americans saw that. The second time we have witnessed this with him in a few years.

 

Youth football is already facing a massive decline in numbers as parents are not wanting to subject their kids to these type of long term, life altering potential brain traumas. Seeing this AGAIN on national TV only reinforces why they shouldn't allow their kids to play, brings it up as a huge topic of discussion again and likely has caused numerous people to decide their child is never playing football.

 

For the long term health of the NFL, protecting the cash cow the NFL has become and preventing potential declines in revenue that they have spent decades building up, it would make perfect sense to prevent a player who could single handedly lessen participation in the sport drastically by people seeing up close and personal on national TV what can happen on the worst case scenario.

 

It may sound crazy but I would be shocked if the NFL isn't having internal discussions about what to do about the "Tua problem".

Edited September 14 by Big Turk

[boater]

All this concussion talk reminds me of Mitch Morse. I think he's another one of those guys that is one hit away from life changing damage.

 

IIRC, he has 6 documented concussions.

[fergie's ire]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

From a post on Twitter that I read but can't find now, it said that Fins only have contract insured for 49.3 out of the 167+ million guaranteed, so they would be on the hook for the other $122 million...

 

And as far as I know once a player retires that money gets accelerated to the cap immediately.

Yeah, as I understand it, that was the issue with Eric Wood.  There was that weird press conference where he seemed to be retiring but the Bills didn't want to call it a requirement.  There was some concern they were trying to screw him out of his guarantees but later they clarified that they never wanted to keep his money from him but it was a "timing issue."  I think they had to wait until a specific date (June 1, maybe?) so the immediate hit wouldn't crush them.

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, boater said:

All this concussion talk reminds me of Mitch Morse. I think he's another one of those guys that is one hit away from life changing damage.

 

IIRC, he has 6 documented concussions.

 

Mitch Morse never went into a fencing posture on National TV twice for millions of parents to see and singlehandedly likely caused more decline in participation of youth football than any other event or player in NFL history.

 

That may seem insignificant but I can promise you the NFL is alarmed at this because they are very focused on long-term growth of this league and do not want the tireless work of the last 5 decades to go to down the tubes.

 

Less youth participation means less potential college and pro players and lower quality of the game over time.

Edited September 14 by Big Turk

[TedWilliamsFrozenHead]

It's sad, but Tua ran his helmet, into Damar 'The Enforcer' Hamlin. 😅 

That is a few steps above colliding, with a wet dish rag.

If Tua was concussed in that situation, (IMO, I thought that he looked OK, on the sideline)  then he should hang 'em up!

[Warcodered]

28 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Mitch Morse never went into a fencing posture on National TV twice for millions of parents to see and singlehandedly likely caused more decline in participation of youth football than any other event or player in NFL history.

 

That may seem insignificant but I can promise you the NFL is alarmed at this because they are very focused on long-term growth of this league and do not want the tireless work of the last 5 decades to go to down the tubes.

 

Less youth participation means less potential college and pro players and lower quality of the game over time.

Morse is more of the long form, a long career where they've accumulated over time, so it wouldn't be surprising if he got another if at this point in his career he was like GG everybody I've got enough hole punches to get the free sundae I'm out.

[Beast]

37 minutes ago, TedWilliamsFrozenHead said:

It's sad, but Tua ran his helmet, into Damar 'The Enforcer' Hamlin. 😅 

That is a few steps above colliding, with a wet dish rag.

If Tua was concussed in that situation, (IMO, I thought that he looked OK, on the sideline)  then he should hang 'em up!

Well, what was your opinion when you saw him on the field looking like he had rheumatoid arthritis is his hands? I need to know so I can be sure.

[Cubanmist]

20 hours ago, steven50 said:

I am not big on the numbers but I am curious as to what happens if Tua calls it quits, or if the team forces him to quit, or if the Doctors wont clear him medically. How will his contract affect the Dolphins Salary cap in those situations?

Contract is GUARANTEED.

[Low Positive]

I can almost guarantee that Tua won't retire. He'll be back out there in a few weeks.

[Trev]

What is up with this overreacting over a concussion.  He’ll be back in a couple weeks, hes not retiring.  Ridiculous 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

Is that confirmed? Also I can’t imagine if he had an independent neurologist saying that yes, he could play today, but the risk to his long term health is too significant because of how not relatively hard that hit was that caused him to go into fencer posture and subsequent significant concussion could happen even easier and have major lasting impacts…

 

like the team fully knew his history and still made him an offer. I can’t see how him retiring citing concussions and having a personal doctor not sign off on him playing wouldn’t allow him to have his injury guarantee kick in, especially where he could say to the judge or arbiter, “these people massively messed up my care, and they even fired a neurologist who cleared me in the past, they cannot be trusted to give my patient clearance to play.”

ultimately it’d be a court fight with an insurance company over a 9 figure payout right? 
 

It’d be messy.

11 minutes ago, Cubanmist said:

Contract is GUARANTEED.

I’d be curious the portion guaranteed for skill vs guaranteed for injury 

[Ya Digg?]

50 minutes ago, Trev said:

What is up with this overreacting over a concussion.  He’ll be back in a couple weeks, hes not retiring.  Ridiculous 

Yeah you’re right, it’s not like this is his 4th or 5th concussion ever since he entered the league, right? It’s not like his body seized up for the 2nd time, right? And to add onto all of that, they definitely don’t have studies out there about the brain damage 5+ concussions can have on someone and their quality of life later on in life, you know what I mean? 
 

You’re right, dude is soft, it’s barely a bump to the head, he should be out there next week or he’s not a real man!!! *insert chainsaws and gun shots noises for extra manliness*

[Trev]

6 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Yeah you’re right, it’s not like this is his 4th or 5th concussion ever since he entered the league, right? It’s not like his body seized up for the 2nd time, right? And to add onto all of that, they definitely don’t have studies out there about the brain damage 5+ concussions can have on someone and their quality of life later on in life, you know what I mean? 
 

You’re right, dude is soft, it’s barely a bump to the head, he should be out there next week or he’s not a real man!!! *insert chainsaws and gun shots noises for extra manliness*

Yeah, I’m right…☕️

[newcam2012]

I sadly and with no glee predict Tua is going to play again. Next year, he will get another concussion and it will be devastating. His speech will be severely impaired for years and his memory will be substantially impaired. It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when. 

 

The NFL needs to force him to retire. 

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I sadly and with no glee predict Tua is going to play again. Next year, he will get another concussion and it will be devastating. His speech will be severely impaired for years and his memory will be substantially impaired. It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when. 

 

The NFL needs to force him to retire. 

That's the only way that it will happen. Go back and watch that Tom Rinaldi "human interest" piece from the National Championship to know why. 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm wondering if any doctor will even clear him to play again. If you're the doctor that clears him and he ends up suffering a TBI after his next concussion, you could be sued for malpractice. We've seen him go into the fencing posture multiple times in his career and it's just on standard everyday NFL hits. At a certain point doesn't a doctor have to just say you are not fit to continue playing this sport? For Tua's sake I hope that's what happens. He gets his money and the Dolphins get the karma they deserve for putting him back on the field after his "back injury."

 

 

I'm not sure where the right place to put this is, but I found this Youtube piece by a board certified neurosurgeon interesting, and your post seemed like a good place to put it.  As to your point, the first question is going to be does Tua heal and recover completely from this concussion?  As we know from Mr Bath Mat, Kevin Kolb, there can be permanent effects.   Long term decisions have to wait on this first step, recovery.

 

As to your points, they're valid, but I think if Tua recovers and clears protocol, it's really going to be up to Tua.  If Tua is kept from playing and suffers financial loss, I would think the doctor would face potential repercussions from preventing his play.  Pretty sure the players all sign liability waivers, so being sued might not be a concern.  My hope for Tua is that his family and friends and his physicians help him evaluate and make the best decision for him (which I think would be step away).

 

On to the Lady Spine Doc:

 

 

She explains what causes the "fencing posture" - about 1:25 in.  It's all about stretching the neurons in your lateral vestibular nucleus (she goes too fast by the diagram, freeze the video at that point).

 

She says having this spontaneous neuron signaling that causes involuntary contraction doesn't necessarily indicate how serious the concussion is, which I found interesting - evidently it's all about what part of the brain gets hit and whether or not the neurons leading to the lateral vestibular nucleus get stretched

Minor point that she (and a number of other commentators on the web) mistakenly say his previous concussions with involuntary contraction were last season, when in fact they were in 2022.

 

Anyway, I thought it was interesting for the info on what causes the fencing posture, why it doesn't necessarily mean that the concussion was more serious, and unlike a number of pundits she's not all "this doesn't mean he can't return to play",  though of course she points out the concussions are very concerning for long term brain injury.

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not sure where the right place to put this is, but I found this Youtube piece by a board certified neurosurgeon interesting, and your post seemed like a good place to put it.  As to your point, the first question is going to be does Tua heal and recover completely from this concussion?  As we know from Mr Bath Mat, Kevin Kolb, there can be permanent effects.   Long term decisions have to wait on this first step, recovery.

 

As to your points, they're valid, but I think if Tua recovers and clears protocol, it's really going to be up to Tua.  If Tua is kept from playing and suffers financial loss, I would think the doctor would face potential repercussions from preventing his play.  Pretty sure the players all sign liability waivers, so being sued might not be a concern.  My hope for Tua is that his family and friends and his physicians help him evaluate and make the best decision for him (which I think would be step away).

 

On to the Lady Spine Doc:

 

 

She explains what causes the "fencing posture" - about 1:25 in.  It's all about stretching the neurons in your lateral vestibular nucleus (she goes too fast by the diagram, freeze the video at that point).

 

She says having this spontaneous neuron signaling that causes involuntary contraction doesn't necessarily indicate how serious the concussion is, which I found interesting - evidently it's all about what part of the brain gets hit and whether or not the neurons leading to the lateral vestibular nucleus get stretched

Minor point that she (and a number of other commentators on the web) mistakenly say his previous concussions with involuntary contraction were last season, when in fact they were in 2022.

 

Anyway, I thought it was interesting for the info on what causes the fencing posture, why it doesn't necessarily mean that the concussion was more serious, and unlike a number of pundits she's not all "this doesn't mean he can't return to play",  though of course she points out the concussions are very concerning for long term brain injury.

I was of the mindset that fencing indicated it was a more serious concussion. Good stuff here. Thanks