Von Miller proves the doubters wrong

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You're just wrong.

[HappyDays]

Haha skimming through this thread I can't believe how much passionate discussion has come from that one play. In real time and watching it back now it looks like Kyler tripped himself more than anything. We got a little lucky because he has a path out of there to the left if he steps up in the pocket sooner, and if he gets out that is a backbreaking scramble for a 1st down. I'll give some credit to Von for pushing his guy back far enough that Kyler tripped over his leg, but let's be honest that is not a totally clean win that is a solid bull rush with a little bit of luck leading to a sack.

 

Von was what I expected on Sunday. He is now a decent edge rusher who looks better than he did most of last year. He is also not the man that we gave that contract too. Not even close, unfortunately. There is a reason they have Epenesa over him on the depth chart. Even the coaching staff knows he is only good for rotational duties at this point, which is still better than what he was last year at least.

 

Edited September 11 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Thanks but I'd love to see it for myself.  Any idea what thread?

 

Edit:  Found the clip:

 

 

It was definitely Von's OT.

 

Kelvin Beachum was TERRIBLE in this game. My god look at those feet. Also I wonder if the RB is supposed to chip to give Beachum an extra tick to get into his stance? Either way Beachum never really gets there so Von is given a free stab while he's still getting his feet under him and that's the end of the rep. I'll acknowledge it is nice to see Von make a play, any play, but this is not really that impressive IMO. He catches an OT before he is in his stance and still doesn't ever look like he is going to break free and collect a sack, until one of Beachum's flailing legs catches Murray's foot and he falls over. From this angle especially you can how close Murray is to escaping to the left and nobody is catching him short of the sticks. Murray needed to recognize what was happening and step up sooner, the lane was there.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

So why does it matter at all how Von Miller performed IN COMPARISON TO A PARTICULAR SEGMENT OF NEGATIVE EXPECTATIONS? What matters is how he performed. I don't really care about the tribal bit about haters vs supporters. I care that this older and recently-injured, but talented and well-paid player flashed in some meaningful ways. He has previously shown an ability to help close out games, and the rep that is bizarrely being downplayed on one side of the "debate" was clearly a high quality snap for Miller. His bull rush was impressive, and in large part led to his sack. Which helped to close out the game. 

 

Which is good for the Bills. 

[Putin]

On 9/10/2024 at 5:51 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

1. This is why not everyone needs a funny little nickname. Half the people you talk to won't know who the hell you're talking about.

 

2. His name isn't EJ. It's AJ. He's on his second contact here already. Not sure you even know who the hell you're talking about.

Is he saying we should have kept EJ and not draft Allen ? 

[machine gun kelly]

It was nice to see flashes of Von again.   If they hold him back to primarily 3rd downs, he may last the year.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Haha skimming through this thread I can't believe how much passionate discussion has come from that one play. In real time and watching it back now it looks like Kyler tripped himself more than anything. We got a little lucky because he has a path out of there to the left if he steps up in the pocket sooner, and if he gets out that is a backbreaking scramble for a 1st down. I'll give some credit to Von for pushing his guy back far enough that Kyler tripped over his leg, but let's be honest that is not a totally clean win that is a solid bull rush with a little bit of luck leading to a sack.

 

Von was what I expected on Sunday. He is now a decent edge rusher who looks better than he did most of last year. He is also not the man that we gave that contract too. Not even close, unfortunately. There is a reason they have Epenesa over him on the depth chart. Even the coaching staff knows he is only good for rotational duties at this point, which is still better than what he was last year at least.

 

It’s not a “clean win” but it was effective and his contribution helped create the sack.  If Miller didn’t push his guy back, it probably wouldn’t have been a sack

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

Von is sort of reminding of Aaron Schobel right now.

Took a bad injury later in his career that impacted his athleticism, got chewed out by fans for it and eventually came back with a game that had transitioned to a lot more power if slightly less athletic.

Schobel was a physical beast when he came back and shut his doubters up and Von could be moving down a similar road if he stays healthy.

Schobel belongs on the Wall of Fame. 

[foreboding]

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I was at the game, sitting in the end zone 200's. I use wide field binoculars the entire game. I wasn't focused on Miller, just on how much pressure Kyler Murray was seeing, which wasn't very much. That Miller sack came when Murray tripped on a teammate. Listening to the postgame talk, I was surprised how upbeat people are on Miller's game. I saw nothing special, but again I didn't focus on his game.

How is that watching with wide fields? How wide are they?

[Royale with Cheese]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Haha skimming through this thread I can't believe how much passionate discussion has come from that one play. In real time and watching it back now it looks like Kyler tripped himself more than anything. We got a little lucky because he has a path out of there to the left if he steps up in the pocket sooner, and if he gets out that is a backbreaking scramble for a 1st down. I'll give some credit to Von for pushing his guy back far enough that Kyler tripped over his leg, but let's be honest that is not a totally clean win that is a solid bull rush with a little bit of luck leading to a sack.

 

Von was what I expected on Sunday. He is now a decent edge rusher who looks better than he did most of last year. He is also not the man that we gave that contract too. Not even close, unfortunately. There is a reason they have Epenesa over him on the depth chart. Even the coaching staff knows he is only good for rotational duties at this point, which is still better than what he was last year at least.

 

 

The pocket collapsed on the right side because of Von walking back Beechum who outweighs him by 60 lbs.  

Kyler doesn't trip if Beachum holds Von at the point of attack.  It's hard for guys as short as Murray to step up in the pocket and see over interior lineman 6-10 inches taller than him.  It's not luck, it's game planning.

 

Murray is a very athletic QB....he's not clumsy and will just trip over a foot for no reason.  There's a million things going on in the pocket and worrying about a size 16 shoe an inch from you throws a major issue.....it's as effective as pressure directly in your face.  Von made the pocket not clean and we are saying it's luck.

Edited September 11 by Royale with Cheese

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, foreboding said:

How is that watching with wide fields? How wide are they?

 

The binoculars must remove things like defenders pushing teammates into each other...

[Shaw66]

I have to respond to several people who are, I think, undervaluing Von's contribution in the game and on this game. 

 

This discussion has reminded me that McDermott said several years ago that pressures are more important than sacks.  

 

Von had multiple pressures in the game, and I recall two or three that resulted from his classic bull-rush:  catch the tackle off-balance or not quite set, knock him off balance, and drive him back.  For his size, it's remarkable that Miller can be effective in this way.  It's a combination of quickness, athletic ability, and strength.  It is, more or less, what we saw Chris Jones do to Dawkins on the critical play in the playoffs last season.   Most d linemen don't have a good bull-rush, and few have one as deadly as Miller's.  To say that he doesn't look like his old self, at least with respect to this move, is unfair to Miller.  He looks exactly like his old self with this move. 

 

The reason pressures are more important than sacks is pressures mean the player is creating an opportunity for the entire team.  Pressures create sack opportunities, for the guy getting the pressure and for other rushers.  Pressures tend to make the QB less effective on the rep, increasing the chances of an INT or an interception.   Miller upset Murray multiple times on Sunday, and that, too, is just like the old Miller.  

 

One sack and multiple pressures is a good game for a defensive end, and doing it on only half the snaps is very good, indeed.   Is there anyone at all who wouldn't be satisfied with 17 sacks and 35 pressures by Miller on the season?   

 

The principal think we didn't see from Miller was the extraordinary bend and wrap around the tackle to get a free run at the QB.  However, when he circled around the tackle on Sunday, he executed better than he was doing last season, which he was still recovering.  There isn't any reason to believe today that that move is gone.  ACL recoveries are slow, but they are more or less complete, because the ACL doesn't really have anything to do with the flexibility of the knee.  The ACL provides stability, not flexibility, so there is no reason (other than perhaps age) that Miller's full mobility will not return.  And it usually until the second season that we see full recovery from ACL repairs. 

 

There's no reason to be writing him off, and there's no reason to be disappointed in his play on Sunday. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, foreboding said:

How is that watching with wide fields? How wide are they?

 

I think they are great. I don't know how to describe the view but I sit in 203 and when the line of scrimmage is at the 30, I can see all the linemen, running backs and QB. (No wide receivers.) I feel like I'm a floating camera just over their shoulder.

 

https://www.bushnell.com/inactive-products/spectator-sport-binoculars-4x30/BU-BS1430.html?srsltid=AfmBOoptsRda8thtrfGYatPaoR8xzaKwMnMDSNPhLBcK9B0o90bJpfWW

[transplantbillsfan]

Listened to the NFL Daily Podcast with Gregg Rosenthall this morning (really fun and informative podcast btw) and in previewing the TNF game, they talked about the old Von Miller being back.

 

Apparently Von Miller was credited with 5 pressures.  I assume that's in addition to his sack.  Those types of advanced stats are the ones you get on paid subscriptions like PFF and the all-new NFL Pro that shows like NFL Daily subscribe to.

 

Even if not, those pressures with a sack and QB hit mixed in along with a few good plays in the run game probably have @GunnerBill, who objectively reviews All-22 film, finally conceding Von had an impactful game.  Good on you for your objectivity Gunner! 

Edited September 11 by transplantbillsfan

[Ralonzo]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

He should only get better as he becomes more comfortable with his knee.

 

The most impactful play was the stab/bull rush for the sack, but the thing we saw Sunday that we didn't see in 2023 was Von winning with the ghost rush. He had done thyat a few reps earlier and that sets up the bull rush later. This leads me to think that while we may not be getting MVP Von we're going to see a useful player now that he has more than one club in the bag.

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also I wonder if the RB is supposed to chip to give Beachum an extra tick to get into his stance?

 

Absolutely it was supposed to be a chip, but Von saw that coming, changed the angle to the tackle's inside shoulder and won with the stab where the RB can't reach him. Baldinger broke this down on his feed.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

On 9/10/2024 at 8:11 PM, NewEra said:

I know-  I’m asking if it matters to you who starts?

 

Not to me however it normally matters to the players.

[Simon]

16 hours ago, Gugny said:

Schobel belongs on the Wall of Fame. 

 

He might have a chance if he wasn't such a prickly sonofabitch 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HIT BY SPIKES said:

 

Not to me however it normally matters to the players.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

To be named a starter.

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

Even if not, those pressures with a sack and QB hit mixed in along with a few good plays in the run game probably have @GunnerBill, who objectively reviews All-22 film, finally conceding Von had an impactful game.  Good on you for your objectivity Gunner! 

 

Watching the all22 I thought his run defense was what stood out. I thought he was pretty good vs the run. His pass rush was still inconsistent and a bit one paced. But I will concede his play against the run was better than I appreciated watching the game live.