3rdand12 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 I mean it was the Cardinals O line and lil Kyler Next up Lil Tua Better O line though and better coaching ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I promise you I am not. Idk man. I have a lot of respect for you and generally agree with most of your posts. But it does seem like you put your foot in the ground this offseason when it comes to who he is and now are purposely being unfair to his performance bc of it. You banged the table all offseason that he's toast, shouldn't be here, and balked at anyone (me included) who said it was even a possibility that he could look remotely close to how he looked on Sunday. Now you're downplaying his play on Sunday and saying "well he looked better, but better than toast still isn't much" when your argument was always he is what we saw last season and isn't going to show improvement. It's fair to say it was just one game and that one game shouldn't dictate anyone being right or wrong about what he'll be this season. But to say he was "meh" and that his sack was just given to him by Rousseau feels like a bad faith argument. He was noticeably getting pressure often in the game and a QB with lesser mobility probably would have yielded more than 1 sack from Von. Again, just one game, but compared to what we saw last season and what you said he was - there was a night and day difference from him in Week 1. Edited September 10 by BillsFanForever19 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 PS The D line was not getting pressure up the middle. which makes me worry a pinch as Bills really need that for the LBs to have a day game one I can forgive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Throw your pom poms in the bin. They are useless. The fact is that is a gimme sack. 3 players won their assignment, including Von (never disputed) and then he was the one who benefitted from the QB tripping over and touched him down. The rest is just pom pom waving and to try and take a victory lap on the back of it is royally ***** ridiculous. But you do you. Not only was Von the reason the sack happened. He was also the only player on that side of the ball to contain Kyler after Oliver stunts inside. Without Von doing what he did, the entire right side of the field is open for Murray to run or pass. And Von didn't just benefit from the QB tripping... he caused it. Do you seriously not see that? It's plain as day. You seem overly sensitive about this issue and that sensitivity is clearly blinding you. 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Idk man. I have a lot of respect for you and generally agree with most of your posts. But it does seem like you put your foot in the ground this offseason when it comes to who he is and now are purposely being unfair to his performance bc of it. You banged the table all offseason that he's toast, shouldn't be here, and balked at anyone (me included) who said it was even a possibility that he could look remotely close to how he looked on Sunday. Now you're downplaying his play on Sunday and saying "well he looked better, but better than toast still isn't much" when your argument was always he is what we saw last season and isn't going to show improvement. It's fair to say it was just one game and that one game shouldn't dictate anyone being right or wrong about what he'll be this season. But to say he was "meh" and that his sack was just given to him by Rousseau feels like a bad faith argument. He was noticeably getting pressure often in the game and a QB with lesser mobility probably would have yielded more than 1 sack from Von. Again, just one game, but compared to what we saw last season and what you said he was - there was a night and day difference from him in Week 1. I would assume that @GunnerBill will change his tune shortly since he's hard at work OBJECTIVELY watching the All-22 and will surely see this 15 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Ah the sack where Ed and Groot won their reps forced Kyler up and he tripped over and Von was the one who ran round to play tag? That sack? By the way Gunner... this right here was your original portrayal of what happened on the play. You've clearly backtracked in this thread alone while not admitting it because there's no other way to interpret this post than that you're saying Von lucked into a sack while Groot and Ed did all the work. You're being ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 31 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Not only was Von the reason the sack happened. He was also the only player on that side of the ball to contain Kyler after Oliver stunts inside. Without Von doing what he did, the entire right side of the field is open for Murray to run or pass. And Von didn't just benefit from the QB tripping... he caused it. Do you seriously not see that? It's plain as day. You seem overly sensitive about this issue and that sensitivity is clearly blinding you. Ha. You talking about sensitivity. Seriously? This is comedy gold. 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I would assume that @GunnerBill will change his tune shortly since he's hard at work OBJECTIVELY watching the All-22 and will surely see this By the way Gunner... this right here was your original portrayal of what happened on the play. You've clearly backtracked in this thread alone while not admitting it because there's no other way to interpret this post than that you're saying Von lucked into a sack while Groot and Ed did all the work. You're being ridiculous. I have not backtracked at all. You should work on your skills of interpretation. They suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Ha. You talking about sensitivity. Seriously? This is comedy gold. Now you've gone from being overly sensitive to being desperate. Sad 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I have not backtracked at all. You should work on your skills of interpretation. They suck. And now a bit of old man anger mixed in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Ha. You talking about sensitivity. Seriously? This is comedy gold. I have not backtracked at all. You should work on your skills of interpretation. They suck. I mean, you kinda just made his point. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Now you've gone from being overly sensitive to being desperate. Sad And now a bit of old man anger mixed in Oh look you can use emojis. Go you. Just give it up. I know you only want to hear opinions that agree with you. And you will run any straw man argument you can to try and make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsker4life Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: I was at the game, sitting in the end zone 200's. I use wide field binoculars the entire game. I wasn't focused on Miller, just on how much pressure Kyler Murray was seeing, which wasn't very much. That Miller sack came when Murray tripped on a teammate. Listening to the postgame talk, I was surprised how upbeat people are on Miller's game. I saw nothing special, but again I didn't focus on his game. Tripped on a teammate that was shoved into him by Von. Let the agendas go, you’ll have way more fun watching the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 (edited) 24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Oh look you can use emojis. Go you. Just give it up. I know you only want to hear opinions that agree with you. And you will run any straw man argument you can to try and make them. Dude... I legitimately thought you were bigger than this. You're wrong. You can say you want to see more out of Von and that would be perfectly reasonable. You could even say you wanted to see more out of him in the game I guess, but the previous graphic with his high pass rush win rate despite the low snap volume would largely negate that. The problem is your position is that one rep that was very clearly an excellent play on Von's part was pure luck due to 2 other players who forced Kyler to move up in the pocket... even though one of the players you claim forced him to move up was 5 yards in front of him in the exact direction he moved. Are you trying to say Ed Oliver is so fat he has his own gravitational pull and sucked Murray into it? Or maybe he used a jedi mind trick to pull the miniscule QB towards him? You're bizarrely clinging to a position on that rep that absolutely everyone agrees is wrong. But go ahead and use the disagree reaction button for the 100th time. Edited September 10 by transplantbillsfan 1 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsker4life Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I didn't give him credit over Von. Nor did I say Von didn't do a decent job on that play. I said it was a freebie sack. Any of them could have been the first to Murray to tag him when on the ground. And it isn't proof of anything. What is your position? That those guys didn't win their assignments? Or that those guys winning their assignments had no part in reducing Murray's escape routes and that it was all Von Miller? Miller played a part in the pressure. Three Bills defenders closed in. Murray tripped over trying to fashion a way out. Von got a freebie sack. My position is the same as everyone who isn’t pushing their agenda. Von did a great job on that play, pushed the RT back several yards and into Murray, causing the sack. You’re doing some mental gymnastics to try and diminish Von’s role in that positive play. And there’s only reason to do that, and it’s to push an agenda. It’s one of the downside to online forums. People feel they have to be married to their previous positions and are incapable of admitting being wrong. It leads to people like you ITT looking absolutely ridiculous. 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Dude... I legitimately thought you were bigger than this. You're wrong. You can say you want to see more out of Von and that would be perfectly reasonable. You could even say you wanted to see more out of him in the game I guess, but the previous graphic with his high pass rush win rate despite the low snap volume would largely negate that. The problem is your position is that one rep that was very clearly an excellent play on Von's part was pure luck due to 2 other players who forced Kyler to move up in the pocket... even though one of the players you claim forced him to move up was 5 yards in front of him in the exact direction he moved. Are you trying to say Ed Oliver is so fat he has his own gravitational pull and sucked Murray into it? Or maybe he used a jedi mind trick to pull the miniscule QB towards him? You're bizarrely clinging to a position on that rep that absolutely everyone agrees is wrong. But go ahead and use the disagree reaction button for the 100th time. I am saying you are wrong. Disagree with me all you want. You are entitled to. It won't change the reality. But I have explained my perspective and all you do is say "ah you just don't like Von". Nothing is further from the truth. I disagree. I see that same play as you and I see it very differently. You want everyone to agree with you. I don't. Not because I have agenda. But because I really believe you are wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 11 minutes ago, Hsker4life said: It’s one of the downside to online forums. People feel they have to be married to their previous positions and are incapable of admitting being wrong. It leads to people like you ITT looking absolutely ridiculous. Except I have a history here of admitting when I'm wrong. I have eaten some crow today on a Bills player performance on Sunday in Mack Hollins. The problem here is I simply don't think I am. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 Just now, GunnerBill said: Except I have a history here of admitting when I'm wrong. I have eaten some crow today on a Bills player performance on Sunday in Mack Hollins. The problem here is I simply don't think I am. Like I said, you're one of a handful of posters I really respect the opinion of on this forum. But this is just odd to me. I can understand saying one game doesn't make a season. I can understand saying you felt Rousseau was more impressive by volume. I can understand saying that you think it was a mirage and time will show that. But I can't fathom, watching the game, not noticing him getting regular pressure, and then ignoring video evidence and statistics post game by fans and analysts alike - to argue he was "meh" - especially in comparison to what he was last season and what you said he definitively is. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: I was at the game, sitting in the end zone 200's. I use wide field binoculars the entire game. I wasn't focused on Miller, just on how much pressure Kyler Murray was seeing, which wasn't very much. That Miller sack came when Murray tripped on a teammate. Listening to the postgame talk, I was surprised how upbeat people are on Miller's game. I saw nothing special, but again I didn't focus on his game. Even an uncharitable view of Von's opening game still sees him as a respectable rotational DE3/4 (and I think he played better than that but like I said even if you aren't as high on him) which is miles ahead of where he was last season where for most of the season he looked completely shot. So I think there's optimism that he at least looks like he belongs on a good defense in at least a rotational role. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 13 hours ago, HIT BY SPIKES said: AJ Epenesa = ESPN You know...the guy who started and got the early snaps instead of Von? I am NOT saying it was the right coaching decision however it was the decision. I know- I’m asking if it matters to you who starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 10 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Like I said, you're one of a handful of posters I really respect the opinion of on this forum. But this is just odd to me. I can understand saying one game doesn't make a season. I can understand saying you felt Rousseau was more impressive by volume. I can understand saying that you think it was a mirage and time will show that. But I can't fathom, watching the game, not noticing him getting regular pressure, and then ignoring video evidence and statistics post game by fans and analysts alike - to argue he was "meh" - especially in comparison to what he was last season and what you said he definitively is. I have watched the all22 back now. I don't think he was very impressive. He was fine (maybe fine is an upgrade from "meh" but I don't particularly intend it to be). He is definitely moving better than last year - I said that right at the start. But did he really impact the game? No I don't think he did. Others can think differently. I have no issue with that. But I have watched the game back. It isn't an agenda it is my actual conclusion. I think his performance is being exagerrated some. To me clear case of the eye test not supporting some of the data. I don't mind people thinking I am wrong. I do mind people presuming that is because I have an agenda. I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am saying you are wrong. Disagree with me all you want. You are entitled to. It won't change the reality. But I have explained my perspective and all you do is say "ah you just don't like Von". Nothing is further from the truth. I disagree. I see that same play as you and I see it very differently. You want everyone to agree with you. I don't. Not because I have agenda. But because I really believe you are wrong. See... I don't just say "ah you just don't like Von..." because I humored you and posted the play itself and explained it all the way through. If you see it very differently, then you see it incorrectly. If you want to just keep seeing it incorrectly, then keep arguing. Problem is that as far as that play is concerned, you're wrong. And yet you call your perception--the wrong one, by the way... objectively the wrong one--"the reality." It's just silly. I don't need anyone to agree with me as far as that play is concerned because you can't agree or disagree with a fact... and the fact is that Von clearly was most responsible for that sack and had a very good rep to earn it. You can disagree with that all you want... but disagreeing with a fact makes you look dumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 18 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Like I said, you're one of a handful of posters I really respect the opinion of on this forum. But this is just odd to me. I can understand saying one game doesn't make a season. I can understand saying you felt Rousseau was more impressive by volume. I can understand saying that you think it was a mirage and time will show that. But I can't fathom, watching the game, not noticing him getting regular pressure, and then ignoring video evidence and statistics post game by fans and analysts alike - to argue he was "meh" - especially in comparison to what he was last season and what you said he definitively is. Same. I’m a bit stunned. He was clearly pretty good on Sunday. Not great….but he had a solid game 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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