Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Should people in that age range be able to vote then if your assumption is correct?

 

Of course. Voting is completely different than being given a gun and power of authority over anyone you come across on the street. Complete false equivalence.

[Savage]

14 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Tell that to the military. 

The military is a completely different animal.

 

not even close to real life as most of us know it to be.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Of course. Voting is completely different than being given a gun and power of authority over anyone you come across on the street. Complete false equivalence.

 

If you vote stupidly, nobody dies. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Savage said:

The military is a completely different animal.

 

not even close to real life as most of us know it to be.

 

Yeah, another false equivalence.

 

[Savage]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, another false equivalence.

 

I’m not sure what it is you’re saying, but I’ve never been in the military, but damned sure they don’t the lives of the non military.

 

 

and, 

 

I’m thankful for that, and thankful for them.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Savage said:

I’m not sure what it is you’re saying, but I’ve never been in the military, but damned sure they don’t the lives of the non military.

 

 

and, 

 

I’m thankful for that, and thankful for them.

 

 

I was agreeing with you.

[Savage]

53 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

How can you say the cops did their job? Then in the same breath say they escalated the situation and dragged him out of the car too early. Not to mention the police officer grabbing a standing cuffed Hill around the neck while his partner is restraining him. 

 

You might want to reconsider if you think the cops did their job. Or at least qualify it with they did a poor job. 

Disagree strongly. Analyse the police conduct with an open mind. There's no way any reasonable person that knows policing can conclude the officers were verbally effective, deescalated the situation, used sound judgement, and used appropriate use of force. This was a whiff by the police. 101 policing gets a D grade. 

You’re right, but wrong at the same time.

 

if the subject doesn’t listen to the officers, the situation will go bad.

at a certain point, the police can’t relent, and it becomes a war of wills, and it ends bad for everyone.

 

if a police officer asks you for ID, or whatever, just comply.

 

if you look for trouble, you will most definitely find it, and very quickly, and maybe very badly.

 

 

 

 

 

[RousseauRage]

18 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

How do cops handle stops in Florida, Florida residents? I’ve seen them tackle perverts on To Catch a Predator because of the conceal laws..

This is probably unnecessary too, but no one cares because of the difference between those charges and a speeding ticket, lol

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Tyreek Hill acted like an overpaid, race-baiting, victim-mongering jerk.

 

However, it's not illegal being an overpaid, victim-mongering, race-baiting jerk. I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to not roll down your window for a cop. It's logical to assume Hill didn't want to create a scene, which could've been dangerous. The officer did not need to escalate this. 

 

It is in Florida.  It's also illegal to not get out of your car when asked to.  

 

Quote

Upon being pulled over, it’s best practice to:

Continue driving until you reach a safe location.

Once there, roll down your window, turn off the car, and visibly place your hands on the steering wheel.

Keep your hands on the wheel, avoid sudden movements, and if asked to provide documentation, request permission to reach for it.

You’re also required to exit the vehicle if an officer requests you to do so.

And passengers, remember: you must identify yourselves if suspected of a crime or involved in a traffic violation, but you also maintain the right to remain silent.

 

Understanding Your Rights: Is Florida a Stop - Meltzer & Bell, P.A. (browardcriminalteam.com)

Edited September 11 by Just Jack

[newcam2012]

33 minutes ago, Savage said:

You’re right, but wrong at the same time.

 

if the subject doesn’t listen to the officers, the situation will go bad.

at a certain point, the police can’t relent, and it becomes a war of wills, and it ends bad for everyone.

 

if a police officer asks you for ID, or whatever, just comply.

 

if you look for trouble, you will most definitely find it, and very quickly, and maybe very badly.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm not wrong with my post. 

 

I don't disagree with the rest of what you said though. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Bockeye said:

Tell that to the military. 

 

There are some important differences.

 

First is practicality.  If the military couldn't give guns to young people, we wouldn't have many recruits for the military.

 

Second is supervision.  Cops are often out there on their own making independent decisions about the use of force.  Young enlisted soldiers go into combat supervised by NCOs and officers.

 

Third is context.  Police officers are using force against American civilians.  Kids in the military are shooting at enemy combatants who are trying to kill them.  

 

Soldiers need a lot of courage and discipline.  But cops in violent situations require more maturity than is needed by younger enlisted soldiers.

[machine gun kelly]

This guy is an entitled jerk.

 

What a moron as he could’ve just complied.  He brought it on himself.

 

 

Edited September 11 by machine gun kelly

[Just in Atlanta]

35 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

It is in Florida.  It's also illegal to not get out of your car when asked to.  

 

 

Understanding Your Rights: Is Florida a Stop - Meltzer & Bell, P.A. (browardcriminalteam.com)

Well there you have it. 

[Alphadawg7]

Being fair to the cops here, their lives are on the line just going to work every day, and cops are quite vulnerable in the line of duty during traffic stops.  They can't see peoples hands, if they are concealing anything illegal or a weapon, are out of their vehicle while they are still in theirs, etc.  

 

So to be defiant and refuse to comply and to do it behind a dark tinted window puts an officer in a vulnerable and dangerous position in general.  So while I think police brutality, excessive use of force, bias against minorities, etc are all real problems that exist, this particular incident feels more on Hill than anyone.

 

I have a hard time blaming to the officer who was put in a position by Hill to have to take back control of an unknown situation that puts his and the other officers lives in jeopardy.  And all they did was secure him on the ground after Hill himself put their security at risk, it's not like they roughed him up.  

Edited September 11 by Alphadawg7

[Savage]

25 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

There are some important differences.

 

First is practicality.  If the military couldn't give guns to young people, we wouldn't have many recruits for the military.

 

Second is supervision.  Cops are often out there on their own making independent decisions about the use of force.  Young enlisted soldiers go into combat supervised by NCOs and officers.

 

Third is context.  Police officers are using force against American civilians.  Kids in the military are shooting at enemy combatants who are trying to kill them.  

 

Soldiers need a lot of courage and discipline.  But cops in violent situations require more maturity than is needed by younger enlisted soldiers.

Perfectly put.

 

[Sharky7337]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Policing isn't that simplistic. There's always a gray area sort of speak. The best officers use good judgement, deescalate situations and people, and use discretion well. The officers did none of this. 

 

Officers are not robots. Officers make decisions every day on what laws to enforce, how to enforce them, how they interact with suspects, and what level of force if any is appropriate. 

 

When you watch the video it's almost impossible to conclude the police officers dealt with the incident professionally, appropriately, and according to training. It was a police failure on many levels despite Hill committing a motor vehicle violation. Yes a fic#ing traffic violation. Hill isn't the first person not to listen to the police.

 

Any comments on the officer grabbing Hill by the neck while he's cuffed and being watched and or restrained by a fellow officer? You gonna try to defend that too. 

 

 

 

Your whole argument ignored the fact he broke multiple laws, and, resisted lawful orders. 

 

Let's start there. If I rob a bank, and the cop tells me to drop my weapon, and I say, don't touch me, what will happen?

 

This is so childish and such a basic concept. I'm sorry. I just don't see eye to eye at all. If he was being cooperative, or they were asking him to do unlawful things then sure.

 

But that's not the case. He decided to be an ass. He got his prize.

 

I have had the same ***** happen to me. I didn't blame the cops.

Edited September 11 by Sharky7337

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Being fair to the cops here, their lives are on the line just going to work every day, and cops are quite vulnerable in the line of duty during traffic stops.  They can't see peoples hands, if they are concealing anything illegal or a weapon, are out of their vehicle while they are still in theirs, etc.  

 

So to be defiant and refuse to comply and to do it behind a dark tinted window puts an officer in a vulnerable and dangerous position in general.  So while I think police brutality, excessive use of force, bias against minorities, etc are all real problems that exist, this particular incident feels more on Hill than anyone.

 

I have a hard time blaming to the officer who was put in a position by Hill to have to take back control of an unknown situation that puts his and the other officers lives in jeopardy.  And all they did was secure him on the ground after Hill himself put their security at risk, it's not like they roughed him up.  

I mostly agree with this. However, what I think you might be overlooking of the cops attitude and verbal interactions with Hill.

 

If I may digress. For the most part, believe officers take charge, act assertively and or aggressively, give orders and commands,communicate in very stern tone of voice, and are dominant in nature. Most often it serves a purpose and promotes officer safety. 

 

IMHO, the opposite of the above is under taught and under trained. To be humble, to listen,  to acknowledge a person's feelings, etc...  Often one sees this as a sign of weakness. Nothing is further from the truth. As one of my training officers once taught me. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. That saying always resonates in my mind. Kill them with kindness sort of speak. Just doesn't happen enough in our law enforcement system. Of course, there's a time and place for everything. You're not going to tell a person pointing a gun at you to kindly put the gun on the ground. Nevertheless, you get the point i hope. 

 

Fast forward to the Hill incident. The officer approaches Hill and hits his window. Was it too hard or too many times? Who knows and who cares. What is important is the perception of the suspect who happens to be Hill.  What if the officer said, I'm sorry that wasn't my intention. I can understand how you feel that way. It won't happen again? Sounds weak and corny but think about how that may have played out. Instead, the cop gets into verbal judo with Hill. Point being the officer missed the opportunity to fe escalate things immediately. Whether it would have been effective who knows. 

 

Then Hill rolled up the window after the officer received his license and registration. At that point couldn't the officer just proceed to his patrol car? I say yes yes and more yes. I hear you are running late. I'll be as quick is possible because I know your time is valuable. Instead, he chose to engage in a pissng contest over the window. Legally, the officer is correct. Walking to his patrol car would have made the rolled up window no security threat. Instead the officer engaged, demanded, ordered, and acted. All was very preventable. 

 

In short, the officers upped the tension, engaged in improper and unnecessary banter which led to an avoidable use of force situation. 

 

Does that lessen what Hill did? No. Did Hill contribute to what happened? Yes yes and more yes. 

 

Hope that helps give another perspective to others. 

 

 

Edited September 11 by newcam2012

[QCity]

Driving 60 MPH In 40 MPH Zone Miami Cops Say

 

So he was going 60 in a 40. All this for a speeding ticket.

[cgang]

Didnt like Hill refusing to lower his tinted window.  But after the unknown safety threat was rectified when they got him out of the car, didn’t like that they forced him down, in handcuffs, for a speeding violation, and then handcuffed his teammate. That seemed way over the top.  I don’t see how any of that was justified. 

[WotAGuy]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

This was a whiff by the police. 101 policing gets a D grade. 

@Alphadawg7 would have given them an A+ 

 

(Sorry, Alpha, had to do it!)