Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Sharky7337 said:

The whole argument goes out the window when he was prob going so fast he should have went to jail for criminal charges speeding that fast.

 

Then has the audacity to act like an idiot.

 

This is a perfect example of a entitled prick, being a prick, and winning a prize.

 

At first I thought the police had maybe been a little too eager but after watching the video he is 100 percent at fault. And a liar, and a entitled prick.

 

I don't know Hill well enough to know if he's an 'entitled pr*ck' or not.   It's clear from the video, however, that he should have been much more cooperative. 

 

But I also agree with your initial assessment that the police were 'a little too eager.'   Only 55 seconds elapsed from the time the first policeman knocked on the window until the time he threw him on the ground.  Not even a minute! 

 

Tyreek was being a dumbsh*t in the moment but police should deescalate situations whenever possible instead of rapidly escalating them.

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Also, in countries that require a 4 year degree in order to be a police officer, there are far lower rates of abuse and corruption.

 

The idea that a just out of high school person can take 6 months of training and then be thrown out onto the streets with a gun is a big reason we are where we are today.

 

Here's the thing about that.   Lots of police departments have had recruiting problems ever since we started villainizing the police.  So many departments have lowered their standards to meet their staffing requirements.  

 

Unintended consequences...  People are angry about the racial and other biases that influence the behavior of some LEOs.  But the negative media (along with the criminal prosecutions) have damaged the esteem and respect of the police which means fewer good, educated people want to be cops.  So our criticisms have made policing worse rather than better.  

 

wpde.com/news/nation-world/quantity-over-quality-some-say-lowering-police-hiring-standards-could-be-deadly-choice-police-opting-for-quantity-over-quality-to-fill-ranks-some-say-its-a-deadly-choice-law-enforcement-policing-physical-fitness-police-officers-police-shortage

[SCBills]

I'm so unbelievably sick of this story.  Everyone involved should've handled it better. 

 

At my office, turn on WGR and we're getting a play by play of it, again, by Maddy Glab with Cameron Wolfe.

 

Good stuff.   Fun times. 

[SirAndrew]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Also, in countries that require a 4 year degree in order to be a police officer, there are far lower rates of abuse and corruption.

 

The idea that a just out of high school person can take 6 months of training and then be thrown out onto the streets with a gun is a big reason we are where we are today.

It’s a more challenging job than it might be in Norway. We’re a country with over 300 million people. There are many dynamics, and it’s all quite complicated. How many people are going to enter a dangerous often thankless career if it requires four years of college and endless debt?
 

There’s nothing about going to college that makes one morally superior, or would prepare them for what you’d face on the streets. I’m all in favor of people trying to improve anything in this world, but four college degrees seem a bit much. Last time I checked, corruption and terrible things happen on college campuses. All brought about by highly educated middle aged professors and administrators. College degrees don’t make people perfect. If you think training can be improved, fine, but college degrees don’t seem like the solution. 

Edited September 11 by SirAndrew

[Lost]

36 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Actuarial data from The Association of Land Grant & Public Universities finds that those with a bachelors degree earn 86% more than those with a HS diploma. The Bureau of Labor Statistics finds that, on average, you earn 25 thousand more a year compared to a HS diploma. It should be coveted. 

 

My post wasn't in reference to earnings with degrees but rather one's ability to just be decent human beings.   The OP seemed to be implying that lack of accredited education is the reason for bad policing which I think is silly.   Tyreek Hill has a college degree and still handled his interaction with the police poorly.  

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

My post wasn't in reference to earnings with degrees but rather one's ability to just be decent human beings.   The OP seemed to be implying that lack of accredited education is the reason for bad policing which I think is silly.   Tyreek Hill has a college degree and still handled his interaction with the police poorly.  

 

Need a citation on that one. He bounced around 3 different schools and was kicked out of one for domestic abuse if that's what you mean by degree.

[Lost]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe in the tinfoil hat PPP group.

 

Here's all the info on how requiring 4 year degrees benefit the police: https://policeofficer.org/importance-college-degree-police/

 

Point moot.  Derek Chauvin has a bachelor's degree in  law enforcement.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Lost said:

 

Point moot.  Derek Chauvin has a bachelor's degree in  law enforcement.

 

Ah so you agree one bad apple spoils the bunch!

[hondo in seattle]

27 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

It’s a more challenging job than it might be in Norway. We’re a country with over 300 million people. There are many dynamics, and it’s all quite complicated. How many people are going to enter a dangerous often thankless career if it requires four years of college and endless debt?
 

There’s nothing about going to college that makes one morally superior, or would prepare them for what you’d face on the streets. I’m all in favor of people trying to improve anything in this world, but four college degrees seem a bit much. Last time I checked, corruption and terrible things happen on college campuses. All brought about by highly educated middle professors and administrators. College degrees don’t make people perfect. If you think training can be improved, fine, but college degrees don’t seem like the solution. 

 

These are all good points.  College is not the ideal way to train a police officer.  But imagine someone earning a 4-year degree in criminology and then going to a police academy for 6 months.  It seems probable, though far from certain, that this person would be a better cop than someone who went to the academy directly after high school.  

And some data that says cops with college degrees indeed use force less frequently, generate fewer citizen complaints, and have enhanced critical thinking skills (though findings are inconsistent).  

Despite having guys like Anders Behring Breivik, I do suspect it's generally easier to be a cop in Norway than in the US when the murder rate here is something like 8x higher.  

 

www.dolanconsultinggroup.com/news/should-we-require-cops-to-have-college-degrees/

theconversation.com/5-reasons-police-officers-should-have-college-degrees-140523

 

 

[Savage]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Also, in countries that require a 4 year degree in order to be a police officer, there are far lower rates of abuse and corruption.

 

The idea that a just out of high school person can take 6 months of training and then be thrown out onto the streets with a gun is a big reason we are where we are today.

A very astute opinion and observation.

 

even in other countries, mine included, a 22-23 kid Is way too young and immature to carry a gun and expect to control whatever situation they walk in to.

 

 

hell,

 

30 year old kids today have their heads so far up the arses, it’s unbelievable.

 

[Just in Atlanta]

Tyreek Hill acted like an overpaid, race-baiting, victim-mongering jerk.

 

However, it's not illegal being an overpaid, victim-mongering, race-baiting jerk. I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to not roll down your window for a cop. It's logical to assume Hill didn't want to create a scene, which could've been dangerous. The officer did not need to escalate this. 

 

On another note, it would've been a funny wrinkle if said cop was Bills Mafia. Alas ...

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/miami-dade-police-tyreek-hill/

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I don't think there are any villains in this story, though both sides could have done better.

 

I think the cops did their job with an uncooperative motorist, though I do believe they escalated from knocking on the window to dragging him out of the car too quickly.

 

I get Tyreek wanted the keep the window closed to avoid being recognized by passers-by and creating a scene that ended up with photos in the media.  Nonetheless, he should have been more cooperative.  

 

How can you say the cops did their job? Then in the same breath say they escalated the situation and dragged him out of the car too early. Not to mention the police officer grabbing a standing cuffed Hill around the neck while his partner is restraining him. 

 

You might want to reconsider if you think the cops did their job. Or at least qualify it with they did a poor job. 

3 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

The whole argument goes out the window when he was prob going so fast he should have went to jail for criminal charges speeding that fast.

 

Then has the audacity to act like an idiot.

 

This is a perfect example of a entitled prick, being a prick, and winning a prize.

 

At first I thought the police had maybe been a little too eager but after watching the video he is 100 percent at fault. And a liar, and a entitled prick.

Disagree strongly. Analyse the police conduct with an open mind. There's no way any reasonable person that knows policing can conclude the officers were verbally effective, deescalated the situation, used sound judgement, and used appropriate use of force. This was a whiff by the police. 101 policing gets a D grade. 

[Sharky7337]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

How can you say the cops did their job? Then in the same breath say they escalated the situation and dragged him out of the car too early. Not to mention the police officer grabbing a standing cuffed Hill around the neck while his partner is restraining him. 

 

You might want to reconsider if you think the cops did their job. Or at least qualify it with they did a poor job. 

Disagree strongly. Analyse the police conduct with an open mind. There's no way any reasonable person that knows policing can conclude the officers were verbally effective, deescalated the situation, used sound judgement, and used appropriate use of force. This was a whiff by the police. 101 policing gets a D grade. 

 

He didn't follow a lawful order and broke the law multiple times in doing so after getting caught breaking the law. 

 

I don't see a defense here. Don't break laws 

[Bockeye]

29 minutes ago, Savage said:

A very astute opinion and observation.

 

even in other countries, mine included, a 22-23 kid Is way too young and immature to carry a gun and expect to control whatever situation they walk in to.

 

 

hell,

 

30 year old kids today have their heads so far up the arses, it’s unbelievable.

 

Tell that to the military. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Prospector said:

Tyreek literally created the tense situation from the start. Why was his window rolled up when the cop was approaching his vehicle? Why did he start making aggressive demands to the cop as soon as he rolled down his window? Why did he refuse to listen to the cop's orders? If he was raised correctly, he wouldn't have done any of that, and he would have had a friendly interaction with the cops.. guaranteed. 

All of this is true. Obviously, that didn't happen. As a result, you have to analyze to police officers demeanor, verbal skills, judgements, and actions. They failed on almost every level from a law enforcement perspective. This will make a good academy training video on what not to do and how not to act. 

 

What people fail to realize is police deal with this kind of behavior and attitude daily. Hill behavior although wrong is very tepid compared to many other suspects the police deal with. It's clear the officers lost their cool and wanted a confrontation. The escalated the incident so they could take care of business. All in the name of officer safety as an out. I'm convinced that no officer involved felt threatened, scared, or intimidated by Hill. No doubt in my mind they were pissed off at him. They found their reason to take action. Of course, it's my opinion. 

[Lost]

32 minutes ago, Savage said:

A very astute opinion and observation.

 

even in other countries, mine included, a 22-23 kid Is way too young and immature to carry a gun and expect to control whatever situation they walk in to.

 

 

hell,

 

30 year old kids today have their heads so far up the arses, it’s unbelievable.

 

 

Should people in that age range be able to vote then if your assumption is correct?

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I don't think there are any villains in this story, though both sides could have done better.

 

I think the cops did their job with an uncooperative motorist, though I do believe they escalated from knocking on the window to dragging him out of the car too quickly.

 

I get Tyreek wanted the keep the window closed to avoid being recognized by passers-by and creating a scene that ended up with photos in the media.  Nonetheless, he should have been more cooperative.  

 

 

I totally agree with this.

[Savage]

6 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Should people in that age range be able to vote then if your assumption is correct?

Excellent question.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

47 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

These are all good points.  College is not the ideal way to train a police officer.  But imagine someone earning a 4-year degree in criminology and then going to a police academy for 6 months.  It seems probable, though far from certain, that this person would be a better cop than someone who went to the academy directly after high school.  

And some data that says cops with college degrees indeed use force less frequently, generate fewer citizen complaints, and have enhanced critical thinking skills (though findings are inconsistent).  

Despite having guys like Anders Behring Breivik, I do suspect it's generally easier to be a cop in Norway than in the US when the murder rate here is something like 8x higher.  

 

www.dolanconsultinggroup.com/news/should-we-require-cops-to-have-college-degrees/

theconversation.com/5-reasons-police-officers-should-have-college-degrees-140523

 

 

 

The best cops are the ones that have 4 year degrees in pretty much anything else other than criminology/criminal justice/law enforcement/etc. The entire point of requiring a 4 year degree is to produce a more well-rounded, experienced, mature person who has had a chance to interact and deal with a diverse set of people.

 

https://policeofficer.org/importance-college-degree-police/

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

 

He didn't follow a lawful order and broke the law multiple times in doing so after getting caught breaking the law. 

 

I don't see a defense here. Don't break laws 

Policing isn't that simplistic. There's always a gray area sort of speak. The best officers use good judgement, deescalate situations and people, and use discretion well. The officers did none of this. 

 

Officers are not robots. Officers make decisions every day on what laws to enforce, how to enforce them, how they interact with suspects, and what level of force if any is appropriate. 

 

When you watch the video it's almost impossible to conclude the police officers dealt with the incident professionally, appropriately, and according to training. It was a police failure on many levels despite Hill committing a motor vehicle violation. Yes a fic#ing traffic violation. Hill isn't the first person not to listen to the police.

 

Any comments on the officer grabbing Hill by the neck while he's cuffed and being watched and or restrained by a fellow officer? You gonna try to defend that too. 

 

 

 

Edited September 11 by newcam2012