Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You are to comply with the police officer unless they’re demanding that you do something illegal. Always remember that your interaction with the officer is NOT your day in court.  

Often a compliant individual will incriminate themselves or others. A citizen has no obligation to assist a police officer in their investigation. You have a right to not answer questions. That will absolutely be looked at in a negative manner in the police officers eyes. Asserting your rights isn't ideal for police officers. They prefer you sing like a canery. 

 

Case law supports that police officers can lie to you during an interrogation. Believe me they do all the time. Examples are: we have you on video or eye witnesses said this. 

 

 

[Bruffalo]

I just want to say I'm thankful for the Ignore Users feature after this thread. 

 

It's amazing how many people can't disagree and be respectful at the same time. 

[newcam2012]

21 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

And it ain't working. People still need a little fear in their lives to keep us all safe. 

 

Society can't be totally devoid of thar fear... We lose mindfulness. 

I place it 180° opposite.  Only Hill had the ability to de-escalate the situation.  If one doesn't comply, everyone on plant knows they will be forced to comply.

Forcing someone to comply IS their job when the person won't comply.

 

How more simple can we make this?

I think you are missing the point here. Police officers have discretion and use it all the time. For example, do they arrest people for jay walking or do they just ignore it? One example of thousands. Police officers make tactical decisions daily on whether to use force, detain, arrest, etc... Often minor violations are not enforced and or no use of force is used even when it can be justified. The duty to deescalate is on the police. The police made a lot of terrible decisions in this incident. This should have been a simple ticket and go. Instead the police took it to another level that was totally avoidable. 

29 minutes ago, JP51 said:

This is a perfect example of how this stuff happens... Quite honestly, I think they were both out of line. Hill simply needs to comply with a reasonable request and leave his window down. He has tinted windows hard to see inside and officers get shot at traffic stops that way. I completely understand why they wanted him out of the vehicle. He was non compliant and being difficult. So to me the order to get out of the car was fine and probably appropriate. 

 

As this is going on you can see the police officer become agitated and indignant.  Which I get I suppose he is human and it is a confrontational situation. However, in todays world where this is going to end up and where the officer will be criticized is Hill was lifting his leg to comply with the command of getting out of the car.  It was apparent at least to me they didnt need to forcibly pull him out and take it to the ground. They could have let him out hands on hood spread legs and cuffed him. They saw his hands, he had no gun.

 

So to me in the end, Hill instigated this whole exchange by committing the violation as well as initially not complying with the request. The officer over reacted in pulling him out of the car and putting him on the ground probably because he was angry. In the end this will be this action that will be the one the public examines and is pointed too. "Look, he is complying and getting out of the car" "Why did you need to pull him out and throw him to the ground?" .... and they wont be wrong. Unfortunately this will be the over all narrative with a subsection of people arguing Hill should have just listened etc... and the argument will continue. In the end I dont think this was about race, or the officer was a Jags fan or anything insidious. I think it was an individual acting like an a$$ and an over authoritative officer who got pissed and was gonna teach him a lesson about listening to COPs.  

 

And I am not sure I am good with either of their actions.... So Hill is not wrong, we have to be better... including him. Much better.

 

Very well stated. 

[What a Tuel]

24 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but do you really feel that window incident was about officer safety? Of course, that's a valid concern. However, take in the totality of the incident. What was said, how it was said, what happened, what didn't happen, and why did it happen? The overwhelming evidence suggest this was a power struggle. Police vs disrespectful citizen. The police officers here were going to teach Hill a lesson. They were going to let him know who is in charge. They are going to send a massage you listen or else. Their comments back this up 100%. At no point, do I see it hear Hill threatening the officer's safety. In fact, he did roll down the window seconds before he was forceably removed from his car. 

 

The officers will absolutely claim officer safety here. The officers will cling to the fact that they can remove non compliant individuals from their vehicles. They may have the law on their side. However, I saw police officers who acted unprofessional, abused their power, and botched the whole incident. 

 

I absolutely do think it was about compliance and officer safety. Hill showed noncompliance from the start when he didn't immediately pull over and instead asked the officer asking how fast he was going as if it was a joke. For all the officer knows, he may have taken off right there,

• So theres a chance for Hill to deescalate here

Then Hill finally pulls over and rolls his window up for when the Officer approaches? 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation. Instead he decided to get pissy about the officer tapping his window. 

Then Hill rolls up his tinted window and doesnt comply with rolling it down so the Officer can talk to him.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation there.

Officer then taps on his window to keep it down and gives Hill a good 15-20 seconds to comply.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Hill rolls his window down simply to yell at the officer again about telling him what to do. 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Officer then says keep the window down or we will get you out of the car then decides Hill should come out of the car

• Here the officer could have been a little more patient but he did give Hill another good 15 seconds to comply and get out.
• I watch a ton of police stop videos and to be completely honest, 90% of the evading police videos start exactly like this with the person being pulled over acting erratic, non compliant, and then suddenly they speed off, so here I think getting Hill out is justified.

 

Lastly the largest question is: Does anyone truly believe this wouldn't have been a smooth traffic stop if Hill pulled over right away, kept his window down, gave his credentials, took his ticket and moved on? No. At the end of the day citizens also have responsibility to deescalate by their own actions whether it be with police or everyday encounters with other citizens.

 

Edited September 10 by What a Tuel

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think you are missing the point here. Police officers have discretion and use it all the time. For example, do they arrest people for jay walking or do they just ignore it? One example of thousands. Police officers make tactical decisions daily on whether to use force, detain, arrest, etc... Often minor violations are not enforced and or no use of force is used even when it can be justified. The duty to deescalate is on the police. The police made a lot of terrible decisions in this incident. This should have been a simple ticket and go. Instead the police took it to another level that was totally avoidable. 

Very well stated. 

You're equating reckless driving with jaywalking?

I hope the bust reckless driving every single time!

[newcam2012]

23 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

No.

 

This incident was NOT authoritative and subjective.

 

This incident was handled stern and objectively. 

You just have a problem with stern and objective. That's why you see it as botched.

 

It's only botched because Hill was driving illegally. 

Not at all. Hill did negatively contribute to the situation. He acted like a dbag. 

 

The cops acted "stern and objective?" Really?  They clearly were pissed off and acted unprofessional at best. They failed to deescalate the situation. I believe they did the opposite. This was a police failure on many levels. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Not at all. Hill did negatively contribute to the situation. He acted like a dbag. 

 

The cops acted "stern and objective?" Really?  They clearly were pissed off and acted unprofessional at best. They failed to deescalate the situation. I believe they did the opposite. This was a police failure on many levels. 

😆... Of course they're pissed off. You want them to try reason with Hill?

 

How old are you? Do you have children? Like reasoning with a 2 year old. You don't. 

 

 

 

Again, everything isn't "Let's Make a Deal."

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

In this case escalation worked. They got him to comply. Not all escalation is bad. They handled it well... Sorry it offended people.  People not following what their told to do can get a little messy. 

 

Life ain't perfect. Don't have to sanitize things to pass the eye test.  

[SectionC3]

14 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I absolutely do think it was about compliance and officer safety. Hill showed noncompliance from the start when he didn't immediately pull over and instead asked the officer asking how fast he was going as if it was a joke. For all the officer knows, he may have taken off right there,

• So theres a chance for Hill to deescalate here

Then Hill finally pulls over and rolls his window up for when the Officer approaches? 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation. Instead he decided to get pissy about the officer tapping his window. 

Then Hill rolls up his tinted window and doesnt comply with rolling it down so the Officer can talk to him.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation there.

Officer then taps on his window to keep it down and gives Hill a good 15-20 seconds to comply.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Hill rolls his window down simply to yell at the officer again about telling him what to do. 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Officer then says keep the window down or we will get you out of the car then decides Hill should come out of the car

• Here the officer could have been a little more patient but he did give Hill another good 15 seconds to comply and get out.
• I watch a ton of police stop videos and to be completely honest, 90% of the evading police videos start exactly like this with the person being pulled over acting erratic, non compliant, and then suddenly they speed off, so here I think getting Hill out is justified.

 

Lastly the largest question is: Does anyone truly believe this wouldn't have been a smooth traffic stop if Hill pulled over right away, kept his window down, gave his credentials, took his ticket and moved on? No. At the end of the day citizens also have responsibility to deescalate by their own actions whether it be with police or everyday encounters with other citizens.

 

Meanwhile this officer

is worried about getting home to his own family and not having the incident go sideways.  Hill is a jerk. 

For what it’s worth, I have it on good authority that Hill is not the only star receiver who played in the AFC East last year who has got himself in trouble like this by being a difficult jerk in a traffic stop situation. 

Edited September 10 by SectionC3

[strive_for_five_guy]

14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

😆... Of course they're pissed off. You want them to try reason with Hill?

 

How old are you? Do you have children? Like reasoning with a 2 year old. You don't. 

 

 

 

Again, everything isn't "Let's Make a Deal."

 

 

 

I watched the video and literally thought it was my 10 ten year old stepson, who is a very difficult child to manage.  But when safety is at risk, you don’t mess around.  As soon as Hill started putting window up on his own accord, cops need to take control of the situation.

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I absolutely do think it was about compliance and officer safety. Hill showed noncompliance from the start when he didn't immediately pull over and instead asked the officer asking how fast he was going as if it was a joke. For all the officer knows, he may have taken off right there,

• So theres a chance for Hill to deescalate here

Then Hill finally pulls over and rolls his window up for when the Officer approaches? 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation. Instead he decided to get pissy about the officer tapping his window. 

Then Hill rolls up his tinted window and doesnt comply with rolling it down so the Officer can talk to him.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation there.

Officer then taps on his window to keep it down and gives Hill a good 15-20 seconds to comply.

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Hill rolls his window down simply to yell at the officer again about telling him what to do. 

• Hill could have deescalated the situation here.

Officer then says keep the window down or we will get you out of the car then decides Hill should come out of the car

• Here the officer could have been a little more patient but he did give Hill another good 15 seconds to comply and get out.
• I watch a ton of police stop videos and to be completely honest, 90% of the evading police videos start exactly like this with the person being pulled over acting erratic, non compliant, and then suddenly they speed off, so here I think getting Hill out is justified.

 

Lastly the largest question is: Does anyone truly believe this wouldn't have been a smooth traffic stop if Hill pulled over right away, kept his window down, gave his credentials, took his ticket and moved on? No. At the end of the day citizens also have responsibility to deescalate by their own actions whether it be with police or everyday encounters with other citizens.

 

There's little debate that Hill's behavior contributed to what happened. However, the burden to deescalate fails on the police once a suspect becomes non compliant. Police shouldn't just go rogue because they can. Police shouldn't flex their power just because they can. Police shouldn't use use of force just because they can. Police shouldn't ignore de-escalating situations just because they can. That's exactly what happened here. This is a colossal failure from a law enforcement perspective. Total breakdown of communication skills, de-escalating skills, use of force, and decision making. The higher standard always falls on the law enforcement officer. 

 

A fact that you really need to focus on is that Hill complied and gave the officer his license and registration. He then proceeds to tell the officer hurry up and give me the ticket I'm fixen to be late. Something to that effect. All while his window is rolled down. Then he rolls up his window and presumably gets on his phone. The officer chooses to engage Hill and the window instead of going to his vehicle to do his checks and write the ticket. It could have been that simple. It should have been that simple. The officer clearly wanted to show Hill he's the boss instead of de-escalating the situation. He escalated to a whole nother level. Yes, the officer did that not Hill. 

 

21 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You're equating reckless driving with jaywalking?

I hope the bust reckless driving every single time!

How many people go to jail for reckless driving? Come on man let's get serious. 

[SectionC3]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

There's little debate that Hill's behavior contributed to what happened. However, the burden to deescalate fails on the police once a suspect becomes non compliant. Police shouldn't just go rogue because they can. Police shouldn't flex their power just because they can. Police shouldn't use use of force just because they can. Police shouldn't ignore de-escalating situations just because they can. That's exactly what happened here. This is a colossal failure from a law enforcement perspective. Total breakdown of communication skills, de-escalating skills, use of force, and decision making. The higher standard always falls on the law enforcement officer. 

 

A fact that you really need to focus on is that Hill complied and gave the officer his license and registration. He then proceeds to tell the officer hurry up and give me the ticket I'm fixen to be late. Something to that effect. All while his window is rolled down. Then he rolls up his window and presumably gets on his phone. The officer chooses to engage Hill and the window instead of going to his vehicle to do his checks and write the ticket. It could have been that simple. It should have been that simple. The officer clearly wanted to show Hill he's the boss instead of de-escalating the situation. He escalated to a whole nother level. Yes, the officer did that not Hill. 

 

How many people go to jail for reckless driving? Come on man let's get serious. 

Maybe he wouldn’t have been so late if he planned better and didn’t act like a jerk.  

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

😆... Of course they're pissed off. You want them to try reason with Hill?

 

How old are you? Do you have children? Like reasoning with a 2 year old. You don't. 

 

 

 

Again, everything isn't "Let's Make a Deal."

 

 

 

Officers are trained to control their emotions and de-escalate situations. For the most part, officers are very good at this. This events wasn't one of them. It's ok to criticize law enforcement. It's ok to criticize citizens for being disrespectful to police. Both can happen simultaneously. 

[RangerDave]

50 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Case law supports that police officers can lie to you during an interrogation. Believe me they do all the time. Examples are: we have you on video or eye witnesses said this. 

This is true, but only to the extent that an innocent person would know they are lying.

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I watched the video and literally thought it was my 10 ten year old stepson, who is a very difficult child to manage.  But when safety is at risk, you don’t mess around.  As soon as Hill started putting window up on his own accord, cops need to take control of the situation.

Of course it's up to officers perspective. As I watched the video, I never once thought the window up was about officer safety. Hill complied gave his document with a rolled down window. Hills presented no threat to the officer. Hill requested the officer to hurry up and write the ticket. After all of this he rolled up his window. No biggie in my eyes. That's when the cop should have retrieved to his vehicle to do what he had to do. It was clear the police officer was flexing his muscles and authority. It was 100% about that not officer safety. Listen to the officers words. You listen to us it's not about you. Not once did an officer mention officer safety. Look at when Hill was cuffed and restrained by one officer. The other officer grabs him by the neck and forceably puts him on the ground. That's wasn't about officer safety either. That was about you do what we tell you to do. How was Hill a threat while being cuffed and restrained by another officer. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances here. This is a failure of police intervention on many levels. Police need to be held to a higher standard than this. 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I watched the video and literally thought it was my 10 ten year old stepson, who is a very difficult child to manage.  But when safety is at risk, you don’t mess around.  As soon as Hill started putting window up on his own accord, cops need to take control of the situation.

When I saw the Tyreek "Floyd" video, I flashed back to my 3 year old son 25 years ago in Wendy's.  He didn't want to put his damn pullover on when we were leaving... lol It was cold out. 

 

I got him to put it on. He then threw up. I felt really bad... We got him a zippered sweatshirt after that debacle. Much less negative ramifications when you gotta go full blown Gestapo!

 

😆 

[Steptide]

Regardless of whatever you think about this situation, this looks bad for the Dolphins imo

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Officers are trained to control their emotions and de-escalate situations. For the most part, officers are very good at this. This events wasn't one of them. It's ok to criticize law enforcement. It's ok to criticize citizens for being disrespectful to police. Both can happen simultaneously. 

They are also trained to force people to comply. Exactly what they did and didn't hurt him. LoL...

[SoCal Deek]

57 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Often a compliant individual will incriminate themselves or others. A citizen has no obligation to assist a police officer in their investigation. You have a right to not answer questions. That will absolutely be looked at in a negative manner in the police officers eyes. Asserting your rights isn't ideal for police officers. They prefer you sing like a canery. 

 

Case law supports that police officers can lie to you during an interrogation. Believe me they do all the time. Examples are: we have you on video or eye witnesses said this. 

 

 

Huh? 
I don’t see anyone saying that you’re supposed to assist in an ‘investigation’. But go ahead….keep up the fight. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Regardless of whatever you think about this situation, this looks bad for the Dolphins imo

 

 

Tyreek triggers the cops, now the organization is bullying them. Wow.