Spencer Brown signs 4 year extension

[HappyDays]

43 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm all about protecting Josh, first.  And getting him weapons, second.

 

A good to great OL can cure alot of problems.  

 

Also, if we're talking trade offs of cap space/investment.  I'd much rather Beane continue his trend of investing top end picks at WR.  FA WR money is just stupid right now.  We don't know Browns $ yet, but having both OTs locked up is huge.

 

Coming into next year, we'll have a 3rd year TE (1st rd), 2nd yr WR (2nd rd), and a 4th year RB (2nd rd).  Add another WR in Rd1 or Rd2, and we're set at skill spots.  Depending on what they do with Knox, perhaps a TE2 will be on the radar.

 

To go along with McGovern, a 3rd year OG (2nd rd), and potentially a replacement LG or in house option.

 

I'd say Beane has set us up for success.  Contrary to many beliefs on here.  The Diggs dead cap is the elephant in the room.

 

Okay but next time a DeAndre Hopkins becomes available and someone on here tells me it would be impossible to fit his contract in, I'm going to point to Spencer Brown's contract.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

NGL I've been really high on Brown for a while 

 

He is so physically gifted, was raw and needed refinement and reps... 

 

Now I think he's going to blossom into a pro bowl level tackle 

 

 

To me, he's been disappointing thus far and I wouldn't count myself as a fan of his - except in the sense that I'm a fan of all Bills.

 

But his RAS score is ridiculous.  I really hope you're right. 

 

Josh has been playing behind lines that have ranged from bad to okay.  I'd love to see him operate behind a premier OL.   Brown emerging as a Pro Bowl level talent would get us a step closer.  

 

 

 

Edited September 6 by hondo in seattle

[Rocky Landing]

59 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Mistake to do it now.  To Happy Days point, it looks like it was forced

Better wait until he would have been more expensive? And what do you mean by "forced?" Forced by whom?

[BullBuchanan]

28 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Some of you guys are so negative about just about everything the Bills do that it's become a habit, I might add that they've done kinda ok since 2017.

How many championships have they won since then?

[Rocky Landing]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay but next time a DeAndre Hopkins becomes available and someone on here tells me it would be impossible to fit his contract in, I'm going to point to Spencer Brown's contract.

Point all you want. It's cheaper to extend him now rather than later.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

Point all you want. It's cheaper to extend him now rather than later.

That's true of just about every player. It's not a reason to extend people to big money.

[NickelCity]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Hmm. I'd have favoured letting him play it out personally. He had a good year last year and it is conceivable he is not yet at his ceiling given his physical potential and the relatively low level of college football he played at (so not exposed to top coaching etc). But he has had one good season, a history of back issues (which at his height is a concern), a shoulder surgery AND their 6th round rookie tackle looked really good in pre-season giving you at least a legitimate contender for the job if Brown ends up walking next year. 

 

This

[Rocky Landing]

Does anyone else remember how bad our O-line was in 2018?

[Herc11]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's true of just about every player. It's not a reason to extend people to big money.

If you feel they are on an upward trajectory, it's absolutely the thing to do. Signing an ascending player a year early can literally save tens of millions. Josh is a great example. Had they signed him a year later, his contract wouldn't of been way higher.

[Rocky Landing]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's true of just about every player. It's not a reason to extend people to big money.

Then you're just arguing that we shouldn't extend him. I disagree with that. I'm of the opinion that having a top tier O-line is important.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

Point all you want. It's cheaper to extend him now rather than later.

 

Oh for sure it is. If the plan was to extend him no matter what, doing it now is better than doing it next year. I agree with that. But I would have let him walk in free agency, saved the cap dollars for something more important, and accepted the likely 3rd round comp pick.

 

This has nothing to do with my feelings about Spencer Brown by the way. I was defending him last offseason when a lot of the fanbase was saying he's a terrible RT and that we needed to draft Darnell Wright if he was available at our 1st round pick. I like the player. I don't like spending a lot of money on the position when we're going to be tight against the cap in future years and we have a good stable of possible replacements waiting in the wings.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

Better wait until he would have been more expensive? And what do you mean by "forced?" Forced by whom?

 

Agree, LOL.  There is zero proof of anything being forced.  How would Spencer's agent have any ammunition on forcing anything?

The Bills have Douglas and Brown as potential bigger dollar re-signs in 2025, and that's it.

 

We don't even know the details of the contract yet and "fans" (and I'm starting to use that term lightly) are looking for the negative.

 

Reid Ferguson is an UFA next season.  His agent has Beane "over the barrel" and is going to set the terms!!!!!!!  

Insert eyeroll here.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He would’ve gotten a MASSIVE contract on the open market.  Not saying this was the best allocation of resources (let’s see the ultimate numbers) but right tackles have been getting paid recently and he would’ve been highly coveted.

 

Rousseau next.

I love Brown and happy for him personally, great day to be him.  However, not every guy should get a second contract from the Bills, that is partly why you have the dead cap you have this year.   Not all second contracts but Morse, Tre White, Diggs etc are contribting to dead cap this year.   Whenever they make a big deal with s player it represents a relatively high risk of a future dead cap hit when/if something goes sideways.  Brown has had injury issues...dont see the contract details yet but I am not sure Beane should have done this one.  Sometimes you have to move from guys who are good but not great.  I felt that way when they about Knox, Bass and Edmunds.  Look at Edmunds, Beane finally stopped himself from making the signing and look what happened, Bernard emerged.  If that did not happen we would be thinking Beane still "missed" with Bernard probably because he would have never played MLB last year.  Maybe the right more would have been to let Brown walk, let Grable, VanDenmark and maybe a draft pick next year fight it out and see who emerges.

 

OK, it sounds like I am hating on Beane, I actually think he is a great GM and I am thankful he is with the Bills but I think he likes to sign his picks a little too much.

Edited September 6 by Matt_In_NH

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Mr. Wonderful said:

It's the smart move.

 

So was the deal with Barzini.

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's true of just about every player. It's not a reason to extend people to big money.

Let's wait until the actual contract terms.  If it's an Ed Oliver type deal then I'm fine with it.

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay but next time a DeAndre Hopkins becomes available and someone on here tells me it would be impossible to fit his contract in, I'm going to point to Spencer Brown's contract.

Hey, Hap -

 

I don't spend any time on Spotrac or other services that track teams, contracts, and spending.   You talk about this like the Bills spend a lot of money on good, solid mid-range players, which results in their not having enough money to sign game changers.   Do you know how the overall profile of Bills' spending compares to other teams.   

 

Like, we know the Bills are like every other team with a top 10 QB - they have a lot of money sunk in him.   But the Olivers, the Browns, the Dawkinses, the Knoxes, etc. - do other teams not have a lot of guys on their roster like that?  

 

At the two extremes, I'd think that teams could have a lot of spending on their top 10 players and spread all the rest of the money more or less equally on the other players, leaving not many guys in the $10-15 million range, OR you have a lot of guys in the middle range and not many on the high end?

 

Do you know if the Bills actually are in that latter category?   I don't.  

 

(Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't blow the bank on Hopkins, but I'd be with you for some other guys.  If Aiyuk had gone on the market, for example.)

[Herc11]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Oh for sure it is. If the plan was to extend him no matter what, doing it now is better than doing it next year. I agree with that. But I would have let him walk in free agency, saved the cap dollars for something more important, and accepted the likely 3rd round comp pick.

 

This has nothing to do with my feelings about Spencer Brown by the way. I was defending him last offseason when a lot of the fanbase was saying he's a terrible RT and that we needed to draft Darnell Wright if he was available at our 1st round pick. I like the player. I don't like spending a lot of money on the position when we're going to be tight against the cap in future years and we have a good stable of possible replacements waiting in the wings.

 

Howmany RT did we go through before getting Brown? The right side of our line struggled for years. Why chance going back to that after you've found a solid guy with a high ceiling that's still growing?

 

[Buffalo716]

23 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

To me, he's been disappointing thus far and I wouldn't count myself as a fan of his - except in the sense that I'm a fan of all Bills.

 

But his RAS score is ridiculous.  I really hope you're right. 

 

Josh has been playing behind lines that have ranged from bad to okay.  I'd love to see him operate behind a premier OL.   Brown emerging as a Pro Bowl level talent would get us a step closer.  

 

 

 

I'm obviously here because I'm a bills fan but I have no problem calling a player a bust or washed up or over the hill 

 

Offensive line is a position that doesn't even peek till they're around 28-29

 

As much as you're looking for perfect technique right off the bat you're also looking for certain traits to mold 

 

Obviously height strength and length are very important...

 

But then there's other traits that you need to find when scouting in offensive tackle 

 

Does he have a boxers straight to redirect a rush?

 

Can he anchor against a bull rush? 

 

Does he sink into his hips or bend from waist?

 

Does he have a fluid kick step? 

 

How do his feet move in open and tight spaces ?

 

Can he move the LoS in run?

 

Does he have grit? 

 

Besides his overall rawness as a prospect... Coming from a small school with not a lot of repetition.. he had a lot to desire with technique..

 

But he crossed the boxes of everything you want from a really good tackle in terms of a skill set which is what I've always thought the bills are banking on and I do like his coachability

 

 

Edited September 6 by Buffalo716

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

If you feel they are on an upward trajectory, it's absolutely the thing to do. Signing an ascending player a year early can literally save tens of millions. Josh is a great example. Had they signed him a year later, his contract wouldn't of been way higher.

You're not getting it. The money doesn't matter if the percentage of the cap is the same. If you extend a guy this year, next year someone else will make more. If you sign him next year, he costs more, but you also have more money to spend. The year after that, someone else will make more as well, making his deal look cheaper.

Signing a player you aren't sure about to a big money deal just because "it's cheaper now than later" is the completely wrong way to look at it. It's like people who bought houses in cash when interest rates were at 3%. Tomorrow's dollars are always cheaper than today's due to inflation and in the case of the NFL, the ever increasing salary cap. It's better to commit to only your best players, of which he has a long way to go, than to saddle yourself with Knox-esque contracts.

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Oh for sure it is. If the plan was to extend him no matter what, doing it now is better than doing it next year. I agree with that. But I would have let him walk in free agency, saved the cap dollars for something more important, and accepted the likely 3rd round comp pick.

 

This has nothing to do with my feelings about Spencer Brown by the way. I was defending him last offseason when a lot of the fanbase was saying he's a terrible RT and that we needed to draft Darnell Wright if he was available at our 1st round pick. I like the player. I don't like spending a lot of money on the position when we're going to be tight against the cap in future years and we have a good stable of possible replacements waiting in the wings.

I'm generally of the opinion that games are won in the trenches. There is generally an agreement on here that Josh shouldn't rely open his legs so much. But if we don't give him proper protection, how does that help him not run? The alternative is to throw the ball away more. Having a true #1 receiver is important, and worth spending cap on, sure, and maybe a #2. But IMO, after that, having a top O-line is more important than the rest of the WR contracts. 

 

There's been a common narrative in the media regarding Josh Allen, that goes along the lines of "defending Allen means keeping him in the pocket." I've always thought that was absurd. Leave Allen in the pocket, and he will pick apart offenses all day.