ghostwriter Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: Why is neither side leaking the dollars ? They both unhappy? Probably the sign of a good deal then.. I’m not by any means an accountant but I think $18M/yr puts him around the top 15-17ish overall when it comes to tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 4 hours ago, Virgil said: 4yrs, 72 mil, 46 guaranteed About what I expect. Maybe 35M guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I don't know whether this contract is a good move or not for multiple reasons: price, is he good enough, etc. Beane knows more about it than we do, and we will just have to wait and see. However, I wanted to post something about this idea that letting Brown walk is a good idea, because some other team will sign him and the Bills will get a comp pick. That just doesn't make sense. Let him walk, and the Bills have a hole at right tackle. If the Bills fill the hole with the comp pick, they have a rookie playing right tackle, and like Brown, even if the Bills draft the right guy, it will take two to three years to get him up to speed. Assuming the guy they get succeeds, three or four years from now the Bills will be in the same situation. All that means is the Bills repeatedly will be plugging the hole. That's no team building strategy. Essentially what that system would mean is that you have maybe 15 starting positions where you're constantly training players, cutting them, drafting more, training them, cutting them. Sonner or later, for most of your roster, you have to invest in players. I think Knox is a good example. Was Knox great as his first deal was ending? No. But you simply can't keep releasing players at the end of their first contracts. What are you going to do with Torrence He may be a high=priced free agent in a few years? Gonna release him? Yes, then you have a hole at right guard. Sign him? Some will say yes, because he's a keeper. Okay, but what if you get lucky in the draft and you five Torrence-level offensive linemen. You can't sign them all, or you will destroy your cap situation. Sign some of them and let others walk? Okay, then you have maybe three stud on your offensive line and two rookies. That isn't a formula for repeated success. You simply have to pay the price to keep some of your solid players, guys who meet your needs and guys you can build with. It isn't simple, and it isn't easy, but you can't afford to keep letting your solid contributors walk. Some good points in here but I feel like you didn't quite get the critique. The comp pick component is an acknowledgement that due to Josh's increasing cap hit we aren't going to be able to pay everyone, and so like it or not there will be home grown players like Brown (or Rousseau or Bernard or Benford, etc.) who we have to let walk in the coming years. Through that lens, is Brown the right guy to pay? I'd say there are legitimate reasons to think no considering his injury history and where he currently sits in our roster talent pecking order. If we did let Brown walk, we'd be replacing him with a B- calibre player in FA or using our 1st or Minn pick not the comp pick which would presumably be BPA. It'd undoubtedly make us worse for a year in that spot, but none of these decisions get made in a vacuum - there are opportunity costs each time we do anything due to cap and pick scarcity. I also say this acknowledging that at this time we have no details on the extension, and so any criticism is clearly premature. I will also add that it's possible Brown is turning into a valuable team leader behind the scenes, and so politically there may be motivations we don't see as fans. It's an interesting decision though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wonderful Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 On 9/6/2024 at 5:52 PM, Ralonzo said: So was the deal with Barzini. Yes!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 28 minutes ago, VW82 said: Some good points in here but I feel like you didn't quite get the critique. The comp pick component is an acknowledgement that due to Josh's increasing cap hit we aren't going to be able to pay everyone, and so like it or not there will be home grown players like Brown (or Rousseau or Bernard or Benford, etc.) who we have to let walk in the coming years. Through that lens, is Brown the right guy to pay? I'd say there are legitimate reasons to think no considering his injury history and where he currently sits in our roster talent pecking order. If we did let Brown walk, we'd be replacing him with a B- calibre player in FA or using our 1st or Minn pick not the comp pick which would presumably be BPA. It'd undoubtedly make us worse for a year in that spot, but none of these decisions get made in a vacuum - there are opportunity costs each time we do anything due to cap and pick scarcity. I also say this acknowledging that at this time we have no details on the extension, and so any criticism is clearly premature. I will also add that it's possible Brown is turning into a valuable team leader behind the scenes, and so politically there may be motivations we don't see as fans. It's an interesting decision though. Also, the Comp pick isn't replacing S. Brown. Ryan Denmark or T. Gramble (?) are. But I trust Beane and like Brown so I am ready to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 hours ago, VW82 said: Some good points in here but I feel like you didn't quite get the critique. The comp pick component is an acknowledgement that due to Josh's increasing cap hit we aren't going to be able to pay everyone, and so like it or not there will be home grown players like Brown (or Rousseau or Bernard or Benford, etc.) who we have to let walk in the coming years. Through that lens, is Brown the right guy to pay? I'd say there are legitimate reasons to think no considering his injury history and where he currently sits in our roster talent pecking order. If we did let Brown walk, we'd be replacing him with a B- calibre player in FA or using our 1st or Minn pick not the comp pick which would presumably be BPA. It'd undoubtedly make us worse for a year in that spot, but none of these decisions get made in a vacuum - there are opportunity costs each time we do anything due to cap and pick scarcity. I also say this acknowledging that at this time we have no details on the extension, and so any criticism is clearly premature. I will also add that it's possible Brown is turning into a valuable team leader behind the scenes, and so politically there may be motivations we don't see as fans. It's an interesting decision though. Got it. That's fair. I think where you and I agree is that the team has to sign some of these guys who aren't stars but who will give the team continuity and growing experience. What you're saying is you don't think that Brown is one of the guys it's worth investing in. I get that. I don't know the talent or the cap well enough to make that judgment, and I'm willing to trust McD and Beane to decide which guys are keepers. You don't think Brown should be one of them. I can't argue with that. 1 hour ago, CNYfan said: Also, the Comp pick isn't replacing S. Brown. Ryan Denmark or T. Gramble (?) are. That's true - not rookies, but definitely a step back when it comes to experience and where they are on the learning curve. If it's not a hole, it's at least a question mark. We know what we have with Brown. And I'm with you - I like Brown and I trust the guys making the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 8 Author Share Posted September 8 Teams like the 49ers and Dolphins and Lions and Browns handing out massive contracts left and right - but for some reason folks are getting bent out of shape for shoring up the right side of the line for the next 5 years with what I’m sure is a number that will be around a 10-14 million dollar cap hit. One less hole we’ll need to fill and the beginning of locking up a core for Act 2 of the Allen era which I consider to start next year (I’m not counting this year as such due to the Diggs situation which we were not counting on and this being the last year we were going to have Von under big money). Guys we drafted going into final years of their contracts in 2025: Bernard (keep) Benford (keep - top 15 CB in the league) Rousseau (hopefully we have to pay him 20 mill per bc he comes off a 15 sack season) Shakir (Same Rousseau only a big WR season version) Cook (let leave) Still have important pieces under contract. Rookies from this year and last year’s class and 10 picks coming in 2025. And FA money to spend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 6 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Teams like the 49ers and Dolphins and Lions and Browns handing out massive contracts left and right - but for some reason folks are getting bent out of shape for shoring up the right side of the line for the next 5 years with what I’m sure is a number that will be around a 10-14 million dollar cap hit. One less hole we’ll need to fill and the beginning of locking up a core for Act 2 of the Allen era which I consider to start next year (I’m not counting this year as such due to the Diggs situation which we were not counting on and this being the last year we were going to have Von under big money). Guys we drafted going into final years of their contracts in 2025: Bernard (keep) Benford (keep - top 15 CB in the league) Rousseau (hopefully we have to pay him 20 mill per bc he comes off a 15 sack season) Shakir (Same Rousseau only a big WR season version) Cook (let leave) Still have important pieces under contract. Rookies from this year and last year’s class and 10 picks coming in 2025. And FA money to spend. If he has a 15 sack season, it's gonna be a fair ways north of 20 per.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 If we haven’t seen the numbers yet, I’d have to imagine it was team friendly? Teams don’t typically put the details out - it’s usually the agent when the figures look nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 9 hours ago, CNYfan said: Also, the Comp pick isn't replacing S. Brown. Ryan Denmark or T. Gramble (?) are. But I trust Beane and like Brown so I am ready to go. Yea Grable was part of why I'd have waited. I know, I know, pre-season pledge and he didn't play against any starters but I can't remember the last time I saw an OT dominate like that as a rookie, let alone a rookie 6th rounder. Impressive. So to me once he was here the sum was never let Brown walk and have a hole. It was potentially let Brown walk and a pay a 6th round rookie deal salary to your starting right tackle for 2/3 years. They have paid Dion as well with his new deal so the issue is even if Grable continues to be impressive how do you get him on the field? I think there is a good chance by this time next year with even a little seasoning he is one of the Bills best 5. I know it is an old chestnut that people love to debate but Dion going into his age 31 season in 2025... maybe you can tell him "okay buddy we are gonna release the shackles a bit on your weight now and let you play out your final years at guard but the deal is you gotta pour all your experience into the ears of the young kid starting at left tackle." I know a lot of long time left tackles might not want to do that for ego but I'm not sure Dion is like that. He is a team first guy and I think he must know getting to the weight to play left tackle is only gonna get harder as he ages. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 Dion came to camp in 2023 out of shape. After that last Chris Jones bullrush he didn't dare show up like that this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 On 9/6/2024 at 3:45 PM, SCBills said: Rousseau is another one. If he can avoid any random foot/ankle injuries, he may be in line top end EDGE money. Many OL take a few years to become top tier. But it seems that most pass rushers are great or not from the get go. Maybe not stat wise, but the obvious impact they have. I sure hope he becomes a top edge guy, but does it ever happen that a DE becomes top tier in year 4-5+ when he wasn't before? Oh he's good. Quite good. But not elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 On 9/6/2024 at 5:32 PM, khlax3 said: Personally spending 40-50 million on 5 guys on the online to me is a better investment than paying a single elite WR 35 million a year. But I know everyone has different team building philosophies. Josh Allen threw for 400-4500 yards a year when he had an elite high paid WR in Diggs. This year I expect he will still throw for the same amount of yards it will just be split amongst more guys. If we had Jefferson and chase on the team I don’t think Josh Allen suddenly stars throwing for 5000 yards I think it ends up like the dolphins where hill and waddle get all the catches and yards and no one else gets any. To me having a top online and dline with numerous solid consistent guys at the playmaker position will get us farther than a couple of elite wr Damn dude... you're rich! What are you doing around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 1 hour ago, Jerome007 said: Many OL take a few years to become top tier. But it seems that most pass rushers are great or not from the get go. Maybe not stat wise, but the obvious impact they have. I sure hope he becomes a top edge guy, but does it ever happen that a DE becomes top tier in year 4-5+ when he wasn't before? Oh he's good. Quite good. But not elite. Your criteria for 'top tier' is so vague that it could be anything. I'd say that there's a certainly the very elite players: Crosby, Watt, Bosa, Bosa, Parsons. For those guys, your statement holds true. They were elite from the moment they hit an NFL field. However, there's a bunch of other guys that were just very good the first handful of years: Reddick, Gary, Hendrickson, Hunter, Burns that in latter years became what I'd consider top tier guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yea Grable was part of why I'd have waited. I know, I know, pre-season pledge and he didn't play against any starters but I can't remember the last time I saw an OT dominate like that as a rookie, let alone a rookie 6th rounder. Impressive. So to me once he was here the sum was never let Brown walk and have a hole. It was potentially let Brown walk and a pay a 6th round rookie deal salary to your starting right tackle for 2/3 years. They have paid Dion as well with his new deal so the issue is even if Grable continues to be impressive how do you get him on the field? I think there is a good chance by this time next year with even a little seasoning he is one of the Bills best 5. I know it is an old chestnut that people love to debate but Dion going into his age 31 season in 2025... maybe you can tell him "okay buddy we are gonna release the shackles a bit on your weight now and let you play out your final years at guard but the deal is you gotta pour all your experience into the ears of the young kid starting at left tackle." I know a lot of long time left tackles might not want to do that for ego but I'm not sure Dion is like that. He is a team first guy and I think he must know getting to the weight to play left tackle is only gonna get harder as he ages. If Grable develops that well, that fast, there will be options. Having too many good young tackles is a great problem that most teams would love to have. Let Dion go, trade one of them, move someone to center, there are always options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 2 false starts and almost got Allen killed near the half. Solid first half for Spencer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Do we have contract details yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 23 minutes ago, Rigotz said: Do we have contract details yet? Apparently not, and it is really strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 23 hours ago, Einstein said: 2 false starts and almost got Allen killed near the half. Solid first half for Spencer. At least we know he can spike the ball after a touchdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0017 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 5 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said: Apparently not, and it is really strange. Agent must be really ashamed of the deal 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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