Spencer Brown signs 4 year extension

[transplantbillsfan]

how much?

[Fleezoid]

[Bruffalo]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Oh for sure it is. If the plan was to extend him no matter what, doing it now is better than doing it next year. I agree with that. But I would have let him walk in free agency, saved the cap dollars for something more important, and accepted the likely 3rd round comp pick.

 

This has nothing to do with my feelings about Spencer Brown by the way. I was defending him last offseason when a lot of the fanbase was saying he's a terrible RT and that we needed to draft Darnell Wright if he was available at our 1st round pick. I like the player. I don't like spending a lot of money on the position when we're going to be tight against the cap in future years and we have a good stable of possible replacements waiting in the wings.

This is where I land. I want to add that I would feel better about this if Beane had a long track record of drafting skill position players early and often, so we wouldn't need to be looking outside for talent. Maybe the last two drafts are a shift in philosophy, I can't say, but I'm not sure it's been enough.

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You're not getting it. The money doesn't matter if the percentage of the cap is the same. If you extend a guy this year, next year someone else will make more. If you sign him next year, he costs more, but you also have more money to spend. The year after that, someone else will make more as well, making his deal look cheaper.

Signing a player you aren't sure about to a big money deal just because "it's cheaper now than later" is the completely wrong way to look at it. It's like people who bought houses in cash when interest rates were at 3%. Tomorrow's dollars are always cheaper than today's due to inflation and in the case of the NFL, the ever increasing salary cap. It's better to commit to only your best players, of which he has a long way to go, than to saddle yourself with Knox-esque contracts.

The Bills are pry betting on him having an all pro year and then pricing themselves out of the market for him next year.  That's why you extend him now.  The Bills took a chance with Josh Allen in that same regard by signing him after year three instead of year four.  Same goes with Ed Oliver (after the 4th year).  Both saved significant future cap space.  On the flip side they unfortunately did the same thing with Dawson Knox and Tyler Bass.

Edited September 6 by Doc Brown

[Herc11]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You're not getting it. The money doesn't matter if the percentage of the cap is the same. If you extend a guy this year, next year someone else will make more. If you sign him next year, he costs more, but you also have more money to spend. The year after that, someone else will make more as well, making his deal look cheaper.

Signing a player you aren't sure about to a big money deal just because "it's cheaper now than later" is the completely wrong way to look at it. It's like people who bought houses in cash when interest rates were at 3%. Tomorrow's dollars are always cheaper than today's due to inflation and in the case of the NFL, the ever increasing salary cap. It's better to commit to only your best players, of which he has a long way to go, than to saddle yourself with Knox-esque contracts.

 

On the contrary, signing that player now locks him in at a percentage of the current cap. Going forward with cap increases is where you save even more. 

 

Also, if he continues getting better the increase in contract demand will far outweigh the increase in cap percentage. 

 

Lastly, yes the cap will probably go up. However, we have zero clue how much. 

[jkeerie]

14 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

So was the deal with Barzini.

It was Barzini all along!

[hondo in seattle]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm obviously here because I'm a bills fan but I have no problem calling a player a bust or washed up or over the hill 

 

Offensive line is a position that doesn't even peek till they're around 28-29

 

As much as you're looking for perfect technique right off the bat you're also looking for certain traits to mold 

 

Obviously height strength and length are very important...

 

But then there's other traits that you need to find when scouting in offensive tackle 

 

Does he have a boxers straight to redirect a rush?

 

Can he anchor against a bull rush? 

 

Does he bend his hips well?

 

Does he have a fluid kick step? 

 

How do his feet move in open and tight spaces ?

 

Can he move the LoS?

 

Does he have grit? 

 

Besides his overall rawness as a prospect... Coming from a small school with not a lot of repetition.. he had a lot to desire with technique..

 

But he crossed the boxes of everything you want from a pro bowl tackle in terms of a skill set which is what I've always thought the bills are banking on and I do like his coachability

 

 

 

You guys are giving me hope.  

 

I confess, I watch games like a typical mindless fan and keep my eyes on the ball.  I only notice the OL when it screws up.   When I see Josh under pressure, or a RB getting hit in the backfield, I want to know who screwed up.  Too often in the past it was Brown.  But I have not examined his technique nor even watched what he does play after play.  

 

Maybe I need to watch some All-22 and pay more attention to him.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Do you know how the overall profile of Bills' spending compares to other teams.   

 

Like, we know the Bills are like every other team with a top 10 QB - they have a lot of money sunk in him.   But the Olivers, the Browns, the Dawkinses, the Knoxes, etc. - do other teams not have a lot of guys on their roster like that?  

 

Fair question but I really just look at these things in the context of the Bills. Because every team is at a different point in their life cycle. For us we have an elite QB who is way underpaid relative to his peers and we are going to need to bring his AAV up to the current NFL standard within the next two offseasons. We have been playing with house money the last couple years and haven't really taken advantage of it. That advantage is about to end. Soon we'll have a decision to make about Rousseau who IMO is more valuable than Brown, we also have Shakir and Bernard coming up before too long. So in that context our cap position is not going to look as favorable in the future as it appears right now.

 

Every draft pick and cap dollar spent in the NFL represents some sort of trade off. When you're paying an elite QB you have to pick your investments. Personally I don't think a solid RT at the market rate is a good investment in that context. My bet is that at some point in the future there will be a possible free agent or trade candidate that could make a real difference for the team, and we won't be able to afford him because of moves like this one. Just like we couldn't afford Hopkins because of similar moves made in the past few years.

[khlax3]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Everyone agrees a big problem with our team is we don't have enough true game changers. Brown has been a good to very good RT for us but he is not a game changer. That's where my issue lies. We're taking money that could be spent on a real game changer and giving it to merely a solid player instead, plus we probably could have gotten a 3rd round comp pick back if he walked in FA next year. Every investment is a trade off and I'm not convinced in this case the trade off is worth it.

 

Brown is one of the most athletic tackles in the league and still only 26 years old. I get he isn’t a star WR or DL but he is young and still developing and can be a top RT in the NFL. 
 

A lot of people also keep commenting on the young pipeline of OL. I am excited for those players as well but none of them have started an NFL game. To just say we would replace Brown with one of them is a bit of a stretch and exactly what people are crying about this year and that we filled out WR and Safety group with a bunch of unproven guys. 
 

We now have the opportunity to keep our entire starting OL and depth together for the next next 2-3 years. We have a ton of picks available next year and without having to invest picks in the OL you can use them to get impact playmakers 

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'm generally of the opinion that games are won in the trenches. There is generally an agreement on here that Josh shouldn't rely open his legs so much. But if we don't give him proper protection, how does that help him not run? The alternative is to throw the ball away more. Having a true #1 receiver is important, and worth spending cap on, sure, and maybe a #2. But IMO, after that, having a top O-line is more important than the rest of the WR contracts

 

I have no issues investing in the OL. I do have an issue paying a solid but unspectactular RT the market rate which ties up finite cap dollars that could be used on more important players. That's all I'm saying.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

You guys are giving me hope.  

 

I confess, I watch games like a typical mindless fan and keep my eyes on the ball.  I only notice the OL when it screws up.   When I see Josh under pressure, or a RB getting hit in the backfield, I want to know who screwed up.  Too often in the past it was Brown.  But I have not examined his technique nor even watched what he does play after play.  

 

Maybe I need to watch some All-22 and pay more attention to him.

He is still a work in progress for sure... The one thing he will always struggle with is guys who take advantage with supreme leverage 

 

He's always going to be at a leverage disadvantage at 6'8

 

And some teams just literally line up at the wide nine and just try to run around his length where he still has some problems with straight speed 

 

But he's definitely a mauler in the run game and he's honestly pretty nasty on the football field.. which is what you want from an offensive lineman 

 

He blocks through the whistle.. he doesn't give up on a play and naturally he should get better in pure passing situations with more reps... When he gets his hands on guys they're usually done

[Buffalo Junction]

12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The Bills are pry betting on him having an all pro year and then pricing themselves out of the market for him next year.  That's why you extend him now.  The Bills took a chance with Josh Allen in that same regard by signing him after year three instead of year four.  Same goes with Ed Oliver (after the 4th year).  Both saved significant future cap space.  On the flip side they unfortunately did the same thing with Dawson Knox and Tyler Bass.

Honestly, the Knox contract isn’t that bad. There’s an out after 2025’ coupled with a pair of void years that stretched the guarantee money. On top of that Knox is the only known quantity as a redzone weapon - outside of Josh’s running - this offense has, and has developed into a solid blocker. Hopefully, he rebounds this year and tears it up with Kincaid…. If not that contract will get dropped, and they’ll draft a replacement. 

[uticaclub]

Someone has going to pay him after his performance last year, glad it was us.

[VW82]

Need to see the numbers but with Josh's cap hit going way up and other more important guys coming due for extension this could be risky. We need extra picks as you can't pay everyone and Brown signing a big contract in FA would've helped on that front.

[billsfan89]

Gonna depend on the numbers but I probably am going to like the deal given that McBeane rarely makes bad resignings (only one I can think of is Knox and that’s not tragic).

 

Bills lock down one of two major starting free agents going into next offseason (the other being Douglas) so the Bills go into next offseason with a lot more certainty as far as configuring their cap picture.

 

The Bills are also keeping together the offensive line longer term which I always like doing as chemistry is big for offensive line play.

[GETTOTHE50]

His pass protection still needs to be worked on bc he gets beat by speed rushers fairly often. I remember Josh almost getting killed a couple of times bc of it 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I had a feeling this would happen, Beane wants to get a win for his draft class, but IMO it's a mistake. We have a decent stable of tackles behind Brown and RT just isn't that difficult a position to fill. I was hoping we would save our limited cap dollars for a legit WR next year.

 

Oh well. Since the numbers aren't out I would guess it's a pretty team friendly team, just not what I would have done.

He’s a good player and way more valuable than guard or center. This is the sort of nuts and bolts player/position that you want to keep strong and effective. 

[ColoradoBills]

29 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

It was Barzini all along!

 

Of course, Tattaglia's a pimp.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

Better wait until he would have been more expensive? And what do you mean by "forced?" Forced by whom?

Beane

[Turk71]

11 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Gonna depend on the numbers but I probably am going to like the deal given that McBeane rarely makes bad resignings (only one I can think of is Knox and that’s not tragic)

Ahem

Diggs' unnecessary early extension was historically bad....biggest non qb dead cap in league history that gave the Bills 31 million less to spend this year, enough to possibly derail their chances this year. Amazing how many just pretend that didn't happen.