The chatter around the Worthy trade isn't rational

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, The 9 Isles said:

The public perception and consternation from the media isn’t worth it. 

 

@GoBills808 this is an example of what I mean. Many people in this thread admitting out loud their biggest problem with the trade is that it brings negative media attention or "looks bad." That is at the bottom of my list of factors in how I evaluate the trade.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Worthy was traded for Legette and Carter. Legette was traded for Coleman and Sedrick Van Pran-Granger.

 

So, Essentially the trade of the Worthy pick got them Coleman, Carter, and Van Pran-Granger.  They got the 3rd back that they moved in the Douglas trade, moved into the early 5th and used it to add two interior linemen.  

 

Hey Mods, can we please pin @Bleeding Bills Blue's post?

 

People need to recognize that it was NOT Worthy for Coleman... That's just the blind chatter force-fed us by the skin-deep "analysis" of such scions of football knowledge as Collinsworthless and Toy Uncle Rico (Tirico). 

 

Don't people get it? Why did the NFL (i.e. Narrative Filled Lies) spend 41+ minutes gushing over KC? To remind us who THEY want US to BELIEVE is best.

 

Narrative... It's all just narrative. Dig deeper, Bills Mafia: There's more to the story.

[ALLinALLEN]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

To be honest, even with Diggs here I do not think Worthy would have been the pick, I think it still is Coleman.  Beane has talked about how we have been lacking for years that more physical presence and size.  He even stated that while Diggs plays with an edge, he still just doesn't have the size and strength either.  He went back to when Brown and Cole were here together too in this convo.  

 

One thing was clear this year, there was a refocus on getting tougher and more physical after continually watching teams like KC and Cincy be more physical than us in the playoffs, including at home in bad weather.  And having smaller guys already around Diggs in Shakir and Samuel, I don't think they would have selected Worthy even if Diggs was still here as it didn't fit what they were trying to do this year.  

 

 

All great and fair points. I just go back to McD and Beane constantly talking since our playoff exit about wanting to get speed, needing more YAC, creating more big plays, guys with big play abilities....all that pointed to Worthy and not Coleman for me. 

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

You'd argue those points?

 

You don't think it's a benefit for an offensive player to have Andy Reid as his coach?

 

You don't think it was blown coverage?

 

Figured you'd chime in on this one, Billl.  I'd encourage you to just enjoy your threepeat season instead of trying to pile on the Bills even more.  Were you looking for threads like "Woe is us!  We made a terrible trade w/ KC again!!!"

 

 

 

He's a Chiefs fan on a Bills message board.  There is no logical reason why he would be here other than to just troll and revel in our misfortune.  Don't even bother engaging him.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not at all. Every time Worthy does anything valuable for the Chiefs until the end of time there will be chatter among Bills fans. I just don't care and I'm glad Beane didn't either. Of course if Worthy turns into a very good WR and Coleman sucks than we can have a conversation about Beane's inability to properly scout the players. But we're really not even close to that point yet.

fwiw a big part of my dislike of how that trade went down are just factors kind of existing beyond anyone's control

 

For example: am I surprised that Reid and the Chiefs would figure out a way to seamlessly integrate a guy like Worthy into their offense wk1? No. Do I think we would have been able to do anything close to the same? Also no. Did I hate the fact that Veach had a different grade than Beane on a guy playing the position we both ended up drafting? Yes, I did. Do I think the Chiefs are necessarily superior at drafting than the Bills? Not really, at least not significantly...there are a lot of competing factors, some rational some emotional, that went into how I feel about it

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

@GoBills808 this is an example of what I mean. Many people in this thread admitting out loud their biggest problem with the trade is that it brings negative media attention or "looks bad." That is at the bottom of my list of factors in how I evaluate the trade.

yeah i don't care about that

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Have some patience everyone, geez.

 

Personally I'm going to wait until Coleman plays in week 1 before I judge this trade for all time.

[Success]

9 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I agree with you on Worthy, but what the heck does Bishop have to do with this discussion? We drafted Bishop in the 2nd round with our original pick. No trades required. 

 

Oh, damn. That's embarrassing.  You are correct, sir.

 

[balln]

7 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

Hey Mods, can we please pin @Bleeding Bills Blue's post?

 

People need to recognize that it was NOT Worthy for Coleman... That's just the blind chatter force-fed us by the skin-deep "analysis" of such scions of football knowledge as Collinsworthless and Toy Uncle Rico (Tirico). 

 

Don't people get it? Why did the NFL (i.e. Narrative Filled Lies) spend 41+ minutes gushing over KC? To remind us who THEY want US to BELIEVE is best.

 

Narrative... It's all just narrative. Dig deeper, Bills Mafia: There's more to the story.

Actually it’s worthy and Jaden hicks safety for KC, VG, and DC

 

we swapped our 4 for their 3

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

thats fine

 

you and beane felt similarly. reid and veach obviously disagreed. now that early returns are in are we really that surprised by the 'chatter'

 

Lets not pretend every teams draft needs and strategy is the same to where "Reid and Veach disagreed" with Beanes.  KC didn't need a WR1, they had Kelce, Rice, and Brown already...they had the luxury of taking a speed specialist where the 28 other teams who did not take Worthy had different needs, systems, and priorities that kept them from selecting him.

 

Edited September 6 by Alphadawg7

[Bookie Man]

You wanna crown him, crown him.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

46 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

underlined is cope

How? Lol. I mean maybe the rumor mill is completely false but it sounds like the niners were not looking at worthy.  A wr that makes zero effort at run blocking really doesn’t have a place in that Shanahan system 

 

crazy how overlooked that hugely important aspect of the game is after reading a lot of this worthy talk 🤣. I think you cope label is cope 

Edited September 6 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

fwiw a big part of my dislike of how that trade went down are just factors kind of existing beyond anyone's control

 

For example: am I surprised that Reid and the Chiefs would figure out a way to seamlessly integrate a guy like Worthy into their offense wk1? No. Do I think we would have been able to do anything close to the same? Also no. Did I hate the fact that Veach had a different grade than Beane on a guy playing the position we both ended up drafting? Yes, I did. Do I think the Chiefs are necessarily superior at drafting than the Bills? Not really, at least not significantly...there are a lot of competing factors, some rational some emotional, that went into how I feel about it

 

100% fair. Of course I believe the Chiefs are several steps ahead of us in multiple facets. I'm not sure draft evaluation is one of them, or if it is it's not by much. The three Hall of Fame talents on their team were drafted by John Dorsey, not Veach. He's had some downright terrible picks over the years like every GM does. Even at WR I would describe his use of draft picks as middling. The difference between him and Beane is he has taken a lot more shots and naturally over time that is going to lead to more hits.

[Alphadawg7]

44 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

im not making sweeping judgements

 

im saying (and said at the time) that trading that pick to the Chiefs, who used and obviously did have a first round grade on another wideout, was going to be looked at very unfavorably considering we drafted and very obviously needed the same position

 

Peoples grades are impacted by what they need.  No NFL teams grades players on a generic scale whose grade translates equally to any other teams board.  KC did not need a WR1 alpha receiver.  Someone looking at Worthy as a WR1 player may not have a first round grade on him in that role.  Someone looking at him as a speed component that compliments other receivers will grade him differently in that regard and place a higher grade/value on him than someone else.  

[SectionC3]

32 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Watch it again. Humphrey was three yards off the LOS and not playing press. Worthy had a free, three step release before Humphrey stepped up to bump him with that little shove to the side, which actually helped worthy get to the sideline. I just don’t think DCs are gonna give him that room very often. It also helps when your CBs know what the coverage assignments are because Humphrey was playing zone and clearly expecting help when he passed Worthy off. 

It was a bust.  A plain as day bust.  The TD had nothing to do with skill and everything to do with miscommunication.  
 

I just finished the game.  The threat of worthy probably is more effective and important than worthy, which is odd to say for a guy who had two touchdowns.  But I really didn’t notice him outside of the run and the coverage bust. 

[Buffalosouth]

Does it matter if Keon has 2 tds week 1? Does it matter if Keon has a better season? Or are we all doooooomed?

[MikePJ76]

26 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 They looked pretty shaky to me Lamar just missed a ton of throws.  The final drive by the chiefs defense was as bad as I’ve seen them play and they dodged back to back to back bullets lol 

i think they are going to be a pretty good group.  They looked good to me last night.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, MikePJ76 said:

i think they are going to be a pretty good group.  They looked good to me last night.

Oh yea pretty good going forward I wouldn’t argue but that could be a significant downgrade from last year 

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:

 

All great and fair points. I just go back to McD and Beane constantly talking since our playoff exit about wanting to get speed, needing more YAC, creating more big plays, guys with big play abilities....all that pointed to Worthy and not Coleman for me. 

 

Don't disagree with that, but Beane has talked extensively about bringing diversity to the WR room and weapons group this year.  So if Diggs was still here, the group would still be small and lack toughness.  And while they have talked about all those things, I do think they have spoken more about getting more physical, more reliable, bigger, and tougher overall.  With Worthy only really bringing speed to the table and a small frame, I actually think had Diggs still been here it further makes Coleman the more likely pick to bring some variance and compliment the group more than another undersized WR.  

 

But just my 2 cents, obviously Diggs was gone before the draft, so know way to know for sure

[T master]

3 hours ago, Success said:

It's actually insane - here & nationally.  

 

He had 2 big plays yesterday.  The 1st TD was some of the best blocking I've seen in awhile, and reflective of how good Reid is.  Most fast receivers get that TD.  The 2nd TD was a completely blown coverage, and pretty much ANY WR would have gotten a TD on.

 

He's incredibly fast - but we knew that before the draft.  The internet went crazy last night blaming the Bills and Beane - as though we didn't expect the guy to make some plays in one of the best offenses, with one of the best QB's and best offensive minds in the game?

 

But that's beside the point.  In all likelihood, KC would have gotten Worthy by standing pat in that draft.  Instead, we traded - and not only got Coleman, but Bishop as well.  People keep saying that if Worthy outperforms Coleman, it will look terrible for the Bills....but what if Bishop turns into a top safety?

 

It's almost like it's in the national psyche that KC always bests the Bills.  That will probably turn out to be a good trade for both teams, but the hot take reaction was so over the top anti-Bills.  

 

The only way that this will be put to sleep is if both players the Bills got by trading back turn into future starters and have some real good stats, but until then we can expect the Bills to remain the whipping boys and Beane along with McD will take the brunt of the blame for it ...

[starrymessenger]

I get the draft strategy and don't disagree. Just as long as it's not a James Hardy/Desean Jackson remake.