The chatter around the Worthy trade isn't rational

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

It’s totally rational to have been skeptical of the trade when it happened, and at least continuing to be skeptical after last night, if not more so.  

 

Plenty to criticize Beane for but I'll never criticize him for refusing to play scared of the Chiefs. If that's his mindset he's already lost the ability to do his job. You gotta trust your evaluations and do what you think is right for your team.

 

He had no 1st round grades on his board so he traded back and got a free 3rd rounder out of it. The idea that he shouldn't have done that just because it made it slightly more likely the Chiefs got a player they might have gotten anyways is chicken little thinking. It's entirely possible we would have taken Coleman at 28 and the Chiefs would have taken Worthy at 32 anyways. Same result but we don't pick up a 3rd rounder.

 

I know we live an era of hot takes but let's give the draft class a couple years to develop before we make sweeping judgments, yeah?

 

Edited September 6 by HappyDays

[Success]

Just now, zow2 said:

No disrespect to anyone, but as of today the trade looks lopsided in favor of KC. People can rationalize and say Worthy only caught 2 passes, or he will be WR5 by mid year.. but fact is he was instant impact.  So we shall see.  If he often breaks like glass as some have predicted will happen, then it would swing back to the Bills favor but we’re not there. 

 

I get the perception.  But "as of today" is literally 1 game into the season.  Before the Bills have even had a snap.

 

These kinds of trades are RATIONALLY evaluated after at minimum one full season, but usually a few seasons.

 

[Cray51]

10 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

No I’m just making it up. My lying eyes saw Rice ‘abusing LBs/slot coverage all night’ then turned upfield a good 5 yards before another defender was on screen. Unlike last year when Kelce and Rice made catches in the middle and was usually surrounded by defenders. 

I mean I’m not trying to be snarky like you.  I’m just asking for the evidence you have that says worthy allowed rice to beat LBs in coverage.  That’s all

[balln]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

What you saw throughout the game was Rice catching a pass in the middle of a wide open field because the safeties were retreating deep to cover Worthy. KC was missing that speed element to take off the cover last year. Now they have it and are better for their overall team. 

Not only that but it’s the way kc goes about it. They not only sign holywood brown to do that. They DOUBLE dip in drafting HIGH a wr with same speed element. 
 

We sign dog poop WRs that when used to describe them the first words come out “either block , play special teams “

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

It’s only a matter of time before DCs play press coverage when Worthy is line up on the LOS, depending on the game situation. I haven’t changed my opinion one bit that he is an off ball receiver because he struggles against press coverage, especially against bigger, stronger CBs. Kudos to Mahomes for seeing the play, but it never would have happened if Worthy wasn’t allowed a free release. 

I’m glad we play that tough aggressive press man D! Wait. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

was giving Von Miller that contract 'playing scared'? or was it realizing the Chiefs are the obstacle that needs to be overcome and decisions need to be made w that in mind

 

That’s completely different…the chiefs gave us a free pick upgrade for a guy that was likely going to be there at 32 for them anyway and some of y’all are saying not only should we have turned it down we should’ve picked the guy that’s a worse scheme fit to stop the chiefs from getting him 😆.  

its not like there was an absence of other receivers in the draft that the chiefs could coach up if we ‘blocked’ them from getting worthy.  

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Plenty to criticize Beane for but I'll never criticize him for refusing to play scared of the Chiefs. If that's his mindset he's already lost the ability to do his job. You gotta trust your evaluations and do what you think is right for your team.

 

He had no 1st round grades on his board so he traded back and got a free 3rd rounder out of it. The idea that he shouldn't have done that just because it made it slightly more likely the Chiefs got a player they might have gotten anyways is chicken little thinking. It's entirely possible we would have taken Coleman at 28 and the Chiefs would have taken Worthy at 32 anyways. Same result but we don't pick up a 3rd rounder.

 

I know we live an era of hot takes but let's give the draft class a couple years to develop before we make sweeping judgments, yeah?

 

I think it’s completely fine to have made an initial judgment at draft time, re-assess that judgment now, and then re-assess it down the road too.  I HOPE that Coleman is a HOFer and that Worthy’s best game ever just happens to be last night.  That said, I think there’s a lot of denial and rationalization of the Worthy trade happening right now, versus recognizing the evidence that we’ve allowed our nemesis to pick up the fastest WR ever, all the while knowing that Andy Reid has capitalized on that kind of talent over-and-over in his coaching career.

[ALLinALLEN]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I don't know. To me, that's playing scared.  That's completely adjusting your draft and costing yourself an extra player (in this case, Cole Bishop - a safety we really need), because you're so intimidated and psychologically worn down by another team.

 

Not playing scared at all. If you're smart (and I think Beane is) then you gotta know or feel the Chiefs were targeting a WR. If you didnt, and were completely shocked they took a WR, then you should be fired. I don't trade to a team that wants/needs the same position as me. Even if I have 5 WR's I like about the same in that spot (so I trade back), I dictate that decision. Not other teams (Worthy, Pearsall, Legette). I just think it was really boneheaded on Beane. Nothing to do with a scared mentality. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Plenty to criticize Beane for but I'll never criticize him for refusing to play scared of the Chiefs. If that's his mindset he's already lost the ability to do his job. You gotta trust your evaluations and do what you think is right for your team.

 

He had no 1st round grades on his board so he traded back and got a free 3rd rounder out of it. The idea that he shouldn't have done that just because it made it slightly more likely the Chiefs got a player they wouldn't have gotten anyways is chicken little thinking. It's entirely possible we would have taken Coleman at 28 and the Chiefs would have taken Worthy at 32 anyways. Same result but we don't pick up a 3rd rounder.

 

I know we live an era of hot takes but let's give the draft class a couple years to develop before we make sweeping judgments, yeah?

im not making sweeping judgements

 

im saying (and said at the time) that trading that pick to the Chiefs, who used and obviously did have a first round grade on another wideout, was going to be looked at very unfavorably considering we drafted and very obviously needed the same position

[balln]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

I am good with Coleman and Carter.

 

Actually can't wait to see Carter play sunday.  He is going to be a good player here for a while.  

 

Color me unimpressed with a 5 year college player. Who will turn 24 as a rookies. Sweet 5th year senior stats in the ACC. Come on you’re kidding yourself. He’s another rotational second unit DL body that is a “character” guy. Sorry I’ve seen enough of these under mcbeane regime. I need some Chris jones 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dewayne-carter-2.html

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That’s completely different…the chiefs gave us a free pick upgrade for a guy that was likely going to be there at 32 for them anyway and some of y’all are saying not only should we have turned it down we should’ve picked the guy that’s a worse scheme fit to stop the chiefs from getting him 😆.  

its not like there was an absence of other receivers in the draft that the chiefs could coach up if we ‘blocked’ them from getting worthy.  

 

underlined is cope

[90sBills]

7 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I mean I’m not trying to be snarky like you.  I’m just asking for the evidence you have that says worthy allowed rice to beat LBs in coverage.  That’s all

My apologies if you weren’t being snarky. Hard to tell with posts. This was my impression from watching the game last night. Also from players interviews after the game. 

[Cray51]

Just now, 90sBills said:

My apologies if you weren’t being snarky. Hard to tell with posts. This was my impression from watching the game last night. Also from players interviews after the game. 

No worries!  I’ll try to watch some of his ISO cam if I can

[K-9]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

if they hit on worthy and it’s a miss on Keon, a safety doesn’t fix that 

bigger stronger corners will be a risk to put on him as they as tend to be slower 

Not necessarily. A good chuck at the line negates a ton of Worthy’s speed advantage. I’ll be surprised if he plays more on the ball than off the ball as the season progresses and defenses adjust. We shall see. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

No I’m just making it up. My lying eyes saw Rice ‘abusing LBs/slot coverage all night’ then turned upfield a good 5 yards before another defender was on screen. Unlike last year when Kelce and Rice made catches in the middle and was usually surrounded by defenders. 

 

They ran a number of RPOs.  Linebackers are put in conflict, and mahomes was slinging them in there last night.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, zow2 said:

No disrespect to anyone, but as of today the trade looks lopsided in favor of KC. People can rationalize and say Worthy only caught 2 passes, or he will be WR5 by mid year.. but fact is he was instant impact.  So we shall see.  If he often breaks like glass as some have predicted will happen, then it would swing back to the Bills favor but we’re not there. 

Genuinely how?  No disrespect to you 😂but I entirely disagree and think that take is mostly just a residual grudge for the mahomes situation for a lot of people.  Worthy is likely there at 32 for them.  They were scared they’d lose out and might’ve gifted us an extra impact player…even if worthy is good we may have fleeced them. 
 

instant impact?  We traded down, scooped an extra likely good player and drafted a guy that will see the field more than worthy lol I legitimately do not understand the logic.
 

if worthy had a ton of catches last night and the offense ran mostly through him maybe a bit of a different vibe for me today 

Edited September 6 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[RoscoeParrish]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

im not making sweeping judgements

 

im saying (and said at the time) that trading that pick to the Chiefs, who used and obviously did have a first round grade on another wideout, was going to be looked at very unfavorably considering we drafted and very obviously needed the same position

To draw a comparison, here’s a hypothetical.

 

Let’s say the Bengals tag Higgins again and try to trade him next offseason. The Ravens make an offer of a second round pick and give Tee all of his contract demands.

 

There’s a school of thought that the Bengals should take that deal as a no-brainer, they are gonna lose Higgins regardless and the second round pick is higher than any comp pick they could get with him signing with the Falcons or whoever.
 

The other school of thought is that through the action of trading a player to a division rival, he can actively participate in your season’s demise, whether it’s missing the playoffs or losing in the playoffs. 
 

Is it a no-brainer to trade Higgins to the Ravens? I think the asset difference makes it very tempting.

 

Is it playing scared to be worried about outcome number 2? I do not think so.

Edited September 6 by RoscoeParrish

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

im not making sweeping judgements

 

im saying (and said at the time) that trading that pick to the Chiefs, who used and obviously did have a first round grade on another wideout, was going to be looked at very unfavorably considering we drafted and very obviously needed the same position

 

I knew it would be looked at unfavorably. I just don't care about perception at all. I'll stand by my pre-draft take - I thought outside of the top three WRs, the best of the rest were all 2nd round talents and the most favorable outcome was to trade down into the 2nd to recoup our 3rd and then take the best WR available there. The fact that the Chiefs were the ones who called wouldn't have changed my thinking at all.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, K-9 said:

Not necessarily. A good chuck at the line negates a ton of Worthy’s speed advantage. I’ll be surprised if he plays more on the ball than off the ball as the season progresses and defenses adjust. We shall see. 

 

Between Brown coming back, and JuJu getting re-acclimated, he's also likely to see fewer snap counts.  He had 34 in this game for 63% of snaps, just ahead of Noah Gray.  He's likely the biggest minus on the roster as a blocker so that will limit his ability to be on the field.  

[MikePJ76]

2 minutes ago, balln said:

Color me unimpressed with a 5 year college player. Who will turn 24 as a rookies. Sweet 5th year senior stats in the ACC. Come on you’re kidding yourself. He’s another rotational second unit DL body that is a “character” guy. Sorry I’ve seen enough of these under mcbeane regime. I need some Chris jones 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dewayne-carter-2.html

Yea Well I see a player who plays with power and will be a good player here for a while.

 

Everyone wants a Chris Jones.  The chiefs have no championships without him.  He is pretty rare.  

 

If you know of a place to get a Chris Jones there are like 30 General Managers in the nfl that would like you to tell them.

[balln]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Plenty to criticize Beane for but I'll never criticize him for refusing to play scared of the Chiefs. If that's his mindset he's already lost the ability to do his job. You gotta trust your evaluations and do what you think is right for your team.

 

He had no 1st round grades on his board so he traded back and got a free 3rd rounder out of it. The idea that he shouldn't have done that just because it made it slightly more likely the Chiefs got a player they might have gotten anyways is chicken little thinking. It's entirely possible we would have taken Coleman at 28 and the Chiefs would have taken Worthy at 32 anyways. Same result but we don't pick up a 3rd rounder.

 

I know we live an era of hot takes but let's give the draft class a couple years to develop before we make sweeping judgments, yeah?

 

But he didn’t get a free 3rd rounder. They had to trade a 4th …