This just in(not really)........Lamar Jackson is a below-average QB propped up by the Media

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Were not judging offenses as a whole. We are judging the most valuable player . A lot more TDs were scored by Josh Allen. Hence , he’s more valuable. 

 

The best player on the best team.  Buffalo wasn't the best team.  Also you can't just discount the additional however many turnovers.  

 

And why not judge offenses as a whole.  Gus edwards scoring 13 TDs inside 10 yards (his longest was 7), harms jackson because buffalo can't use a back to punch it in?  Context should matter.  

[mjd1001]

It seems like most people want to argue on extreme side or the other on Jackson...either is bad/below average or he is a legit hall of famer and the best (if not top 2) QB in the league at any time.

 

Can't the truth be in the middle? He is overall a good-to-very good QB, with exceptional physical talents that, at times, allow him to pull out a game that most other average-to-above average QB's cant?  When you take everything into consideration..the stats he puts up, his win-loss record, his record in the playoffs, his great plays, his bad plays...it averages out to him being good, maybe very good, but not elite?

 

Personally I think he's top 10 in the league. Not top 3, but probably in the 4-8 range.  I think Allen is better and I'd rather have Allen, but that doesn't mean Jackson is a bum either (or even below average).

[DapperCam]

22 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Beating the best team in the NFC, with about 300 total yards and 2 TDs with no turnovers isn't exactly pedestrian.  Purdy was the chief MVP competition and fell on his face yes, but Jackson had a solid game against a top defense.  

 

Allen did himself no favors down the stretch with ugly games against the chargers and patriots, and that weird cowboys game where he didn't have to do anything at all.  

The stat line looked good, but if you watched the game Jackson didn’t do much at all. He threw short passes around the line of scrimmage and played mistake-free football. I remember thinking at the time he only made a couple passes more than 10 yards down the field the entire game. Both of his TDs were drives started on the 49ers half of the field (one was at the 9 yard line). He also gave up a safety.

 

He didn’t have a bad game at all, it was just pedestrian. He did what needed to be done, but the win was 100% on the defense forcing turnovers.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No it doesnt.  First of all, one of those MVPs isnt real IMO.  The MVP is an award thats becoming as big of a joke as the pro bowl is.  Its based on which QB gets the one seed.  QB is the most important part but its still a team game.  Surrounding cast and coaching matters.  As does what schedule you happen to play that year.

 

IDGAF about fantasy football.  I dont get involved in it.  I dont even listen to WGR anymore because I turn it on and all I hear from schoop and bulldog for their entire set is nothing but about gambling and fantasy football.  

 

Lamar is not a good passing QB.  I dont care what team stat you throw at me, year after year Lamar is bottom of the league in passing.  He is an amazing athlete so as a "duel threat" at least that part of the duel he is the best at it.  To me to be a top 10 QB, then you have to be good at passing the ball too.  He isn't.

 

He's 15th in the league in passing yards and 17th in passing attempts.  So his yards per attempt was 8.0 which was right behind Purdy, Tua, and Stroud.  With what he was given as a supporting cast. Interception rate was 1.5% which was tied with Dak and Carr and just behind Stroud.  So he was among the most efficient passers in the league last year - they just throw it less often (30th in the league in pass attempts).  

 

Now looking at his running - He was the leading rusher for the #1 rushing offense in the league.  22nd in the league as a QB, and the highest YPA other than Achane.  Even with whatever else they had at running back throughout the year, they were 3rd in yards per attempt and led the league in attempts.  

3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

The stat line looked good, but if you watched the game Jackson didn’t do much at all. He threw short passes around the line of scrimmage and played mistake-free football. I remember thinking at the time he only made a couple passes more than 10 yards down the field the entire game. Both of his TDs were drives started on the 49ers half of the field (one was at the 9 yard line). He also gave up a safety.

 

He didn’t have a bad game at all, it was just pedestrian. He did what needed to be done, but the win was 100% on the defense forcing turnovers.

 

Similar to the gameplan in this past one against KC.  I would assume SF did the same thing and bracketed Likely (andrews was on IR) in combo zone coverages and played the corners off to let you throw underneath.  They have the pass rush to force jackson to hold the ball, and holding the ball = sacks and turnovers.  

 

They "made him be a QB" and he took what they gave him.  Allen occasionally needs to take that same advice.  

Edited September 6 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Special K]

33 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

 

 

Personally I think he's top 10 in the league. Not top 3, but probably in the 4-8 range.  I think Allen is better and I'd rather have Allen, but that doesn't mean Jackson is a bum either (or even below average).

 

I don't think Jackson is a bum....he is an elite runner and a dreadful passer.

 

elite + dreadful would normally equal out to average, but I feel a greater weight should be given to passing ability when talking about QB's, so therefore I went with "below average".

 

Either way, the overarching point of my post was the fact that the Media and Talking Heads always try to equate Jackson with Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow when that could not be further from the case.

 

Furthermore, they always gloss over or minimize his blame for when his team loses, but they are not at all shy to take a huge dump all over Josh Allen for even a minor mistake.....even when the Bills actually win some of these guys will still take a shot at Allen.

 

Everyone should be treated equally when it comes to praise, and criticism.

 

That is just not the case when it comes to Allen and Jackson.

 

If I wanted to be cynical, I would call it the Bill Polian effect...he lost his job for criticizing Jackson, so now pundits of all races are afraid to criticize him for fear that the same would happen to them....that's not right either.

 

I really hope that isn't the reason for this double standard in coverage.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It seems like most people want to argue on extreme side or the other on Jackson...either is bad/below average or he is a legit hall of famer and the best (if not top 2) QB in the league at any time.

 

Can't the truth be in the middle? He is overall a good-to-very good QB, with exceptional physical talents that, at times, allow him to pull out a game that most other average-to-above average QB's cant?  When you take everything into consideration..the stats he puts up, his win-loss record, his record in the playoffs, his great plays, his bad plays...it averages out to him being good, maybe very good, but not elite?

 

Personally I think he's top 10 in the league. Not top 3, but probably in the 4-8 range.  I think Allen is better and I'd rather have Allen, but that doesn't mean Jackson is a bum either (or even below average).

I agree....every year I rank him around 8-10.  And every year I expect him to struggle in the playoffs. His running athleticism is elite. His pocket passing is below avg.  He wins mvps because he puts up conservative/ turnover free regular seasons.  And unless he puts up a 40 td+ season over the next few years, I think his mvp days are over.

[T master]

13 hours ago, Special K said:

Can't read Defenses.

 

One read, then run it on nearly every play.

 

Most of the completions he did have were the result of great catches by his receivers of terrible throws.

 

Overthrows, throws into coverage, missing wide open receivers....I could go on and on.

 

He is nowhere near the level of Mahomes, Josh Allen or Joe Burrow, yet he is a 2 time MVP???

 

Give me a break.

 

I know some will disagree with me, but please tell me what you saw out there today(minus running the ball as many times as a RB in a game) that tells you he is on the same level as the top QB's in the league??

 

But, But, But, he was the MVP and the "experts" say so ...

[Just in Atlanta]

It's stunning to me how much praise he and his game gets from the likes of Collinsworth et all. He's a QB who turns into a running back after one read.

 

He's decent but shouldn't be in the MVP discussion. He's not even close to the same tier as Mahomes and Allen. 

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It seems like most people want to argue on extreme side or the other on Jackson...either is bad/below average or he is a legit hall of famer and the best (if not top 2) QB in the league at any time.

 

Can't the truth be in the middle? He is overall a good-to-very good QB, with exceptional physical talents that, at times, allow him to pull out a game that most other average-to-above average QB's cant?  When you take everything into consideration..the stats he puts up, his win-loss record, his record in the playoffs, his great plays, his bad plays...it averages out to him being good, maybe very good, but not elite?

 

Personally I think he's top 10 in the league. Not top 3, but probably in the 4-8 range.  I think Allen is better and I'd rather have Allen, but that doesn't mean Jackson is a bum either (or even below average).

I’d take him over Tua, Cousins, Dak, Hurts, Stafford, and Herbert.  So I’d say he’s #3.

[Ghost_002!]

12 minutes ago, T master said:

 

But, But, But, he was the MVP and the "experts" say so ...

You're saying this like 1. his MVPs don't mean something 

 

And 2. Like a fan's opinion  somewhat holds more water to an actual NFL official's.

3 hours ago, DJB said:

Don’t want to be that guy but I will. 
 

If Josh Allen and Lamar traded skin colour Josh would be the one with two MVP’s. 
 

There I said it . 

??? How so.

[T master]

2 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

You're saying this like 1. his MVPs don't mean something 

 

And 2. Like a fan's opinion  somewhat holds more water to an actual NFL official's.

 

No actually i'm being a smart ass !! And to the fact that Josh had stats that dwarfed Jacksons last season & wasn't barely considered for MVP so if you can have a guy that puts up stats like Josh and wins the last 6+ games of the season to become the #2 seed i don't put a lot of faith in the so called "Experts" opinions . But maybe that's just me ...

[H2o]

I don't think Lamar is below-average by any means. He is propped up by the media a bit, but that's not his fault. I think part of that still goes back to everyone in the "sports media" world flipping out on Polian. Like they just had to go to the extreme in the opposite direction.

 

Sportscaster 1: "Oh my gerd, how great was that 4 yard TD pass by Lamar?1?!?"

Sportscaster 2: "Amazing, simply amazing!!!"

 

Seriously though, he's easily top 7 in the league at his position, and debatable top 5. Can you imagine if he swapped positions with Jalen Hurts, what those Eagles teams would be like and what kinds of numbers he would put up (which could be said for a lot of QB's to have that much talent around them, Josh included)? I would have him at 5 behind only Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Stroud (just my 2). I take Stroud because he's the better passer of the two. I do think Lamar has folded in some big games, but I still think Lamar does some special things on a football field. A lot of it is predicated on his legs, his escapability, and the threat of running when he gets out of the pocket, but it is still special none the less. 

 

 

[Ghost_002!]

29 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No actually i'm being a smart ass !! And to the fact that Josh had stats that dwarfed Jacksons last season & wasn't barely considered for MVP so if you can have a guy that puts up stats like Josh and wins the last 6+ games of the season to become the #2 seed i don't put a lot of faith in the so called "Experts" opinions . But maybe that's just me ...

 

Josh was a finalist, was he not? And yea he even dwarfed L. Jackson in interceptions as well. Josh hit double digits which lead to him having a lower QBR than L.Jackson

 

 

[34-78-83]

 

Lamar Jackson IS a great NFL player and overall QB, likely worthy of the HOF, while at the same time being an average passer and reader of defenses. It can all be true at the same time, and is.

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

He's 15th in the league in passing yards and 17th in passing attempts.  So his yards per attempt was 8.0 which was right behind Purdy, Tua, and Stroud.  With what he was given as a supporting cast. Interception rate was 1.5% which was tied with Dak and Carr and just behind Stroud.  So he was among the most efficient passers in the league last year - they just throw it less often (30th in the league in pass attempts).  

 

Now looking at his running - He was the leading rusher for the #1 rushing offense in the league.  22nd in the league as a QB, and the highest YPA other than Achane.  Even with whatever else they had at running back throughout the year, they were 3rd in yards per attempt and led the league in attempts.  

 

Similar to the gameplan in this past one against KC.  I would assume SF did the same thing and bracketed Likely (andrews was on IR) in combo zone coverages and played the corners off to let you throw underneath.  They have the pass rush to force jackson to hold the ball, and holding the ball = sacks and turnovers.  

 

They "made him be a QB" and he took what they gave him.  Allen occasionally needs to take that same advice.  

 

Don't care. He is a below average passer and not very good at reading defenses.  That may get him by for now but as his running starts to slide, he won't be very good anymore.  That will happen sooner than later.  Why do you think he lost weight over the off season?  Because he needed to, to stay an elite runner.

Edited September 6 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

The stat line looked good, but if you watched the game Jackson didn’t do much at all. He threw short passes around the line of scrimmage and played mistake-free football. I remember thinking at the time he only made a couple passes more than 10 yards down the field the entire game. Both of his TDs were drives started on the 49ers half of the field (one was at the 9 yard line). He also gave up a safety.

 

He didn’t have a bad game at all, it was just pedestrian. He did what needed to be done, but the win was 100% on the defense forcing turnovers.

 

Exactly. The guy wants to talk context but ignores the context when it doesnt suit him.  The receivers did most of the work this game, not Jacksons arm.  Even on some of the game defining deeper throws, it was the receiver making an incredible catch. Jacksons running was still elite and helped keep them in the game though.

 

 

Edit: I just realized that you were probably talking about the game last year against 49ers. Im referring to last nights game.

Edited September 6 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Ga boy said:

I’d take him over Tua, Cousins, Dak, Hurts, Stafford, and Herbert.  So I’d say he’s #3.

 

I would not.  All of those QBs have above avg to elite passing skills.  At some point Jacksons running ability is going to slide.  Even if it hasnt slid, the better defenses can contain him most of the game. When either of these things happen, his passing skills can't make up for it.  Thats why his playoff record is so bad. Those QBs are still going to be above avg to elite when Jackson cant run anymore.  The only two I might not take ahead of him is Tua and Herbert.  Tua because without the speed and elite offensive coordinator, Tua probably would suck.  Herbert because I don't think the guy has any heart.

[DrBob806]

15 hours ago, Special K said:

 

 

I know some will disagree with me, but please tell me what you saw out there today(minus running the ball as many times as a RB in a game) that tells you he is on the same level as the top QB's in the league??

It's his "slipperiness" that wows folks, not his passing.

 

His stats vs his division rivals aren't really outstanding (as you may expect) because those teams see him twice a year. He does excel vs teams that don't see him often, especially early in a game. Once teams get a feel for his skills they typically figure it out. It's like trying to catch a water bug in a creek.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[DrBob806]

9 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Maybe it’s just me, but why does it seem that a significant portion of Bills fans enjoy crapping on other quarterbacks  teams in order to build up their own guy?

FIFY lol