This just in(not really)........Lamar Jackson is a below-average QB propped up by the Media

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, Success said:

I don't know - he's also one of the most electric, fun-to-watch players in the league.  

 

Some other QB's would have been sacked 5-6 times tonight.  I don't know if there are too many guys who can improvise like he can.

 

 

He is not an overrated player.

He is an overrated passer.

As a general player/runner, he is electric.

[JMM]

I agree to some extent. He will never be a great classic dropback passer. But does present huge problems with his legs. HOWEVER, if they have him run as much as last night, he once again will not last the season. Especially since he actually lost weight this off-season .

[Da webster guy]

Ravens fans have to be discouraged.   The team is exactly the same every year, disorganized, lots of stupid penalties, undisciplined and relying solely on Lamar to scramble on broken plays.  
 

Chris Jones is all world, and their answer was to put a RB or TE on him half the time.  It’s head scratching.   On those times when they doubled him they didn’t have good enough technique to even slow the guy down.   
 

Zay Flowers in the end zone at the end of the game was wide open but kept running his route instead of sitting down in the open spot.  Cost them the game.  His inexperience showed there.  

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Every year, everyone goes "multiple of these rookie QB's can be at least good to great QB's" and then fastforward 3 years and like one of them at most is even okay.

 

The Trevor Lawrence/Mac Jones/Justin Fields class didn't seem so bad after their first or second years.  Fastforward to today, everyone from that class has been cut or traded except Trevor, and Trevor has 1 playoff berth in his career.

 

 

It isn't Trevor that has one playoff berth. It's his team.

 

There isn't one QB that has a playoff berth. It's a team stat, one that a QB has a major input on, but a team stat nonetheless.

 

Maybe I'm misreading you but you appear to be disparaging him here. But IMO Lawrence still has a chance to have an excellent career.

 

I agree with everything else you said here, though.

 

QB is a really really difficult thing to predict results in the pros from college performance.

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ah yes the "if you take away his elite asset he is below average" game. When you evaluate Lamar Jackson the Quarterback you have to evaluate all of Lamar Jackson the Quarterback. Not just what he does as a passer. His entire game. 

 

He is not Allen or Mahomes but he is unique and brilliant in his own way.

 

Exactly.  There's more to being a great QB than simply passing ability.  The aim is to win football games, not to set passing records or score passing style points.  I would take Lamar over most NFL QBs, including Tua, because he can lift his team much like Allen or Mahomes, especially when plays break down, and that's a talent that separates great QBs from really good QBs.

[Da webster guy]

9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

He sure looked better than Allen did week 1 last season... And against a significantly better team.

 

If you're using THIS game to make any determinations about Lamar, that's ridiculous.

 

"Please tell me what you saw out there today..."

 

I don't need to reference anything from today, the Ravens last 6 seasons show me they're a much better team with Lamar in there, he's a 2 x MVP (even though he shouldn't be), and is still a top tier QB.

 

Do I think Josh is better? Hell yeah I do! But as someone once told me, you don't need to put out someone else's candle to make yours brighter. Do I think the media props Lamar up? Definitely. But in his early years, they were equally critical & nitpicky, just like they were with Josh.

 

So again, people judging Lamar off one game are the same kind of people who made a mockery of Allen week 1 last year. I'm not joining in with that group, even if I think Lamar is overrated.

the Jets defense at home was tops in the NFL last year.   Chiefs were 24th ranked.  
 

josh was definitely rusty but the two defenses aren’t even close nor will they be this year.   KC has Chris Jones and a very average squad after that.  

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, T.E. said:

His Wonderlic score was literally three times better than Jackson's, and that's why he was able to read complex defenses and throw the ball further than five yards from the line of scrimmage!

I’m not going to argue about Jackson’s intelligence but Nix was in school as long as doctors, so his should be higher! 
 

and this rep of Nix being some mastermind is crazy. He had the benefit of playing more than any college qb ever. Oregon has a gimmicky offense. 
 

https://www.draftsharks.com/article/bo-nix-dynasty-value#:~:text=Bo Nix's 6.8-yard average,targets%2C per Pro Football Focus.

Quote

Bo Nix’s 6.8-yard average target depth is the lowest of any QB in the 2024 class, and the third lowest in all of college football. He threw 329 of his 470 passes (70%) in 2023 to wide-open or open targets, per Pro Football Focus. On those throws, 74.4% of his yards came from YAC.

Edited September 6 by C.Biscuit97

[Cray51]

6 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Ravens fans have to be discouraged.   The team is exactly the same every year, disorganized, lots of stupid penalties, undisciplined and relying solely on Lamar to scramble on broken plays.  
 

Chris Jones is all world, and their answer was to put a RB or TE on him half the time.  It’s head scratching.   On those times when they doubled him they didn’t have good enough technique to even slow the guy down.   
 

Zay Flowers in the end zone at the end of the game was wide open but kept running his route instead of sitting down in the open spot.  Cost them the game.  His inexperience showed there.  

I mentioned this in last night's gameday thread:

 

 - Flowers at the point of the throw (BTW, Lamar bailed the pocket here when he didnt need to, forcing a tighter throwing angle and bringing pressure into his face.  It may have been because the play design had Hill their RB on CHRIS JONES.....wtf)

 

 - Flowers looking back at the pass

 

I'm not trying to be overly harsh here, but Lamar made BAD mistakes here. 

1) He bailed the pocket when he didnt need to and put a Chiefs player into his face

2) Assumes his WR who just created separation is going to immediately sit flat on that white line on the left side of the E after coming out of the break at full speed

3) Doesn't give his guy any lead on the throw since there are no Chiefs players within 15 feet of the right side

 

That's bad QB play.  I dont care who you are, that's awful.  blame Flowers for not sitting on his route, but that's being incredibly generous to the QB making several bad moves in short order.  Combine that with a) Overthrowing Bateman forcing the catch in bounds and b) not spiking immediately after...  There is a reason some QBs always win close games and some lose them - these are the things you look at as the deciding factors.

[Chicken Boo]

It may not be pretty or conventional, but Lamar wins and is a nightmare for defenses to contain.  That's not because he isn't talented. 

 

I hated the way Ben "the r*per" played, but he was effective.  

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I mentioned this in last night's gameday thread:

 

 - Flowers at the point of the throw (BTW, Lamar bailed the pocket here when he didnt need to, forcing a tighter throwing angle and bringing pressure into his face.  It may have been because the play design had Hill their RB on CHRIS JONES.....wtf)

 

 - Flowers looking back at the pass

 

I'm not trying to be overly harsh here, but Lamar made BAD mistakes here. 

1) He bailed the pocket when he didnt need to and put a Chiefs player into his face

2) Assumes his WR who just created separation is going to immediately sit flat on that white line on the left side of the E after coming out of the break at full speed

3) Doesn't give his guy any lead on the throw since there are no Chiefs players within 15 feet of the right side

 

That's bad QB play.  I dont care who you are, that's awful.  blame Flowers for not sitting on his route, but that's being incredibly generous to the QB making several bad moves in short order.  Combine that with a) Overthrowing Bateman forcing the catch in bounds and b) not spiking immediately after...  There is a reason some QBs always win close games and some lose them - these are the things you look at as the deciding factors.

Qb looks so easy in screenshots. Why do some many of this guys bust? 

[elroy16]

12 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Ravens fans have to be discouraged.   The team is exactly the same every year, disorganized, lots of stupid penalties, undisciplined and relying solely on Lamar to scramble on broken plays.  
 

Chris Jones is all world, and their answer was to put a RB or TE on him half the time.  It’s head scratching.   On those times when they doubled him they didn’t have good enough technique to even slow the guy down.   
 

Zay Flowers in the end zone at the end of the game was wide open but kept running his route instead of sitting down in the open spot.  Cost them the game.  His inexperience showed there.  

 

 

Lamar did a good job of baiting him deep and then moving up in the pocket. I couldn't believe the Chiefs didn't bring a delayed blitz of some kind to blow up that running lane.

 

Not to mention the Chiefs letting Likely pick up 8-12 yards three different times on that last drive.

 

I wasn't super impressed by either team last night.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly.  There's more to being a great QB than simply passing ability.  The aim is to win football games, not to set passing records or score passing style points.  I would take Lamar over most NFL QBs, including Tua, because he can lift his team much like Allen or Mahomes, especially when plays break down, and that's a talent that separates great QBs from really good QBs.

Yup and the hate is because Lamar looks different than his people think nfl qbs look. 
 

probably the most prototypical qb of all time is Peyton Manning. He didn’t win his first SB until 30. Lamar is 27 and is getting crushed because he lost to Mahomes and the Chiefs on the road by a toe. 

[Herc11]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He is not an overrated player.

He is an overrated passer.

As a general player/runner, he is electric.

 

He is an overrated QB.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Maybe it’s just me, but why does it seem that a significant portion of Bills fans enjoy crapping on other quarterbacks in order to build up their own guy?

 

It's not just you. 

 

I believe it stems from insecurity about the lack of hardware in Josh's trophy room.  

 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

That’s what a pass rush will do to most QBs. It’s ridiculous to overreact to a single game. Jackson didn’t do a great job passing the ball last night, but was under duress constantly. It was a far cry from how he looked most of last season though. The ravens’s big issue isn’t Jackson, it’s their OL.

Edited September 6 by BarleyNY

[T.E.]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup and the hate is because Lamar looks different than his people think nfl qbs look. 

LMAO, are we still playing this game? Pretty sure Michael Vick was taken 1st overall like 20 years ago. We're not talking about Jackie Robinson here.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

That's a very good defense he played 

Got them to within one single toe

 

Lamar haters are weirdos just like Allen haters

 

two overthrows into the EZ though...

 

best part was Lively later saying "if this is the best they got, I mean, good luck in the playoffs".  How can you learn an NFL playbook and still be this dumb?

 

Allen haters are very weird.  Lamar's....not really.  Worst MVP award in years last season.  

Edited September 6 by Mr. WEO

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

the Jets defense at home was tops in the NFL last year.   Chiefs were 24th ranked.  
 

josh was definitely rusty but the two defenses aren’t even close nor will they be this year.   KC has Chris Jones and a very average squad after that.  

 

 

KC was way better than you're saying here.

 

2nd in both scoring defense and yards allowed last year, they're a damn good D.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/opp.htm

 

Where are you seeing that KC's D last year was so bad at home? If they were 24th best at home, it would've been almost impossible to be 2nd best overall, which they were.

 

 

Edited September 6 by Thurman#1

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Special K said:

Can't read Defenses.

 

One read, then run it on nearly every play.

 

Most of the completions he did have were the result of great catches by his receivers of terrible throws.

 

Overthrows, throws into coverage, missing wide open receivers....I could go on and on.

 

He is nowhere near the level of Mahomes, Josh Allen or Joe Burrow, yet he is a 2 time MVP???

 

Give me a break.

 

I know some will disagree with me, but please tell me what you saw out there today(minus running the ball as many times as a RB in a game) that tells you he is on the same level as the top QB's in the league??

 

I've probably been Lamars biggest critic around here since day one. Most would argue with me and tell me every year he is improved as a passer. I still just saw the same Lamar.  Some even implied racism. I wouldn't call him a below average QB.  I would definitely call him a below average passer.  In todays NFL, I think Duel threat QBs are a thing.  He is one of the best athletes on the field all the time.  He just doesn't read a defense well.  Nor can he really throw every NFL pass well.  He does have a beautiful ball over the middle and seam. 

 

This all works during the regular season when not so many NFL defenses can contain him.  Doesnt work so well in the playoff when there are. Lamar would have been better off if they kept Roman.  Too many people thought this guy was a good enough pocket passer.  Was even still called that on the broadcast.  He isn't.

Edited September 6 by Scott7975

[chris heff]

9 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Bills fans hate on Lamar because he was drafted after Josh and has two MVPs. The implication being that the Bills made a mistake.

The Bills didn’t make a mistake, everyone that drafted between Buffalo and Baltimore did, especially Arizona.