This just in(not really)........Lamar Jackson is a below-average QB propped up by the Media

[MikePJ76]

Sir, that is the 2 time league mvp.  
 

that means he is the best player in the league.

 

😌

[Jerome007]

7 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Bills fans hate on Lamar because he was drafted after Josh and has two MVPs. The implication being that the Bills made a mistake.

So many Bills "fans" had their ego go mad and shouted Beane had picked "the wrong Josh" for months and months. Yet, I've never seen any Bills fans say they should have picked Lamar over Josh.

[MJS]

Just now, Jerome007 said:

So many Bills "fans" had their ego go mad and shouted Beane had picked "the wrong Josh" for months and months. Yet, I've never seen any Bills fans say they should have picked Lamar over Josh.

Nope. I think we were all sick of Tyrod by that point and didn't want another running QB with passing limitations. But, he's way better than Tyrod ever was.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

So many Bills "fans" had their ego go mad and shouted Beane had picked "the wrong Josh" for months and months. Yet, I've never seen any Bills fans say they should have picked Lamar over Josh.

Trust me, I know. It's just when they do those "redrafts" sometimes Lamar is drafted above Josh. That makes people angry. BTW, if you want a fun read, try this.

 

[NeverOutNick]

Here’s my take:

 

Lamar is a unicorn. He doesn’t fit into a normal comparison with other QBs. He’s the best college QB I’ve ever seen (yes Tebow and Cam were awesome but it’s my opinion so sorry lol). He was Louisville offense and couldn’t be contained with his Michael Vick but more athletic skillset. You draft him because you have a certain style of offense you want to play with him leading it and that has worked for years in the regular season and against NFC teams that only prepare for him once ever couple years. BUT his style of play can’t be conformed to any OC and what they want to run. Other elite QBs don’t have that problem.

 

Lamar has improved since college as a passer but is still very inaccurate and his decision making throwing the ball is still lacking but because he is so much more athletic than everyone else, he doesn’t have to be great at reading coverages to win a lot of regular season games. BUT, when it matters most, like last night or in the playoffs he falls short because athletic ability only takes you so far. You have to be great at actually throwing the ball to continually win in the playoffs and other big moments.

 

He’s still a top ten QB in the league right now but I bet 5 years from now as Father Time catches up to his athletic ability, he won’t be in that discussion anymore, unless he improves on the intricacies of being an actual QB. 
 

These 5 will be better than him in 5 years:

 

1. Patrick Mahomes - because we have to include hardware and he’ll probably have another one in the next 5+ years he has to be #1

 

2. Josh Allen - His body will hold up because he’s evolving. He’s not running as much and he’s got a running game around him. 5+ years I expect McD to be gone and Josh to have at least one SB, hopefully in Buffalo 

 

3. Joe Burrow - If he could stay healthy he could easily be #1 on this list as the modern day more athletic version of Manning. He processes the game better than anyone else

 

4. CJ Stroud - He’s built like a champion. Love his ball placement and ability to lead his WRs. He’s the last of the for sure top tier can’t miss guys with no question marks.

 

5. Justin Herbert - Fresh start! We all know the talent level is right there with the top guys but like Lawrence he makes so many bad decisions. Unlike Trevor, he’s more talented and can make up for those mistakes and now that he has an actual head coach we’re about to see the real Justin Herbert, please stand up 

 

These 6 should be better than him in 5 year:

 

 

6. Drake Maye - Honestly if he went to anywhere else besides NE I’d have him above Herbert for 5-10 years from now because I think as a guy just coming into the league he’s got less mileage and more upside but he’s going to have to tough it out these first few years and carry NE to some .500 ball and I think he will before becoming great. 

 

7. Baker Mayfield - Finally living up to what I saw in him at OU. He’s a fighter and there’s no doubt in my mind that he will be a top 10 QB making the playoffs for an NFL team 5-10 years from now. Imagine him reuniting with McVay after Stafford retires ooooh boy 

 

8. Bo Nix - Perfect QB/Coach marriage and I soooo dislike Payton but he found his new Drew Brees. This is going to work and he’ll prove all his doubters wrong. He doesn’t have the arm talent as the top 6 guys but who needs it when you’re winning, ask Drew

 

9. Caleb Williams - He’s got a lot of Mahomes in him but unlike Mahomes I’m not sure he can harnass it into greatness. He plays hero ball when he doesn’t have to. Super accurate even on the run. He has the ability to be a top 5 guy but I need to see a lot of growth from what I saw at USC. 

 

10. Michael Penix - He is a bigger version of Tua and will hold up and also has a team/owner willing to pay to keep him upright. The falcons have and will continue to invest heavily in the offensive line 

 

11. Jared Goff - He’s not even 30 yet. He’s only gotten better since becoming the Lions franchise QB. He’ll still throw a great ball 5+ years from now 

I left off Tua and Hurts because I’m not sure they will survive 5 more years with Tua history and Hurts style of play but if they’re around then yes they’d be better than Lamar in 5 years imo. Also left off the old QBs 

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

Edited September 6 by NeverOutNick

[Jerome007]

BTW what a game last night! Seriously. Crazy good. Including... Lamar ha ha. IMO he played a great game and the fact he missed a wide open guy in the end zone at the end will just add to the polarisation about the guy. BTW I really love how the Ravens had changed their offense completely to suit him. He is both limited in many aspects of a QB and great at what he does well. Hence this thread will be repeated for years to come ha ha. 

Often, the 1st drive of a team can be super successful but it means little into what happens next. Yet, am I the only one that don't understand why the Ravens didn't continue with that style of power offense, mixing in the threat of a Lamar runs, misdirections and playaction? I mean it was a super close game, obviously, but why drop that?

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, CoudyBills said:

If you can't have a legitimate debate without trying to silence people with your bull#### then what are you doing here?

There is nothing to debate and I’m not trying to silence anyone.

 

The OP did not respond to support his claim that Lamar is a “below average” QB. 
 

He threw a grenade and ran. It’s a total joke.

[DCOrange]

21 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Eli Manning won two SBs against the greatest dynasty in NFL history. Lamar Jackson still can't go through progressions if his first option is covered. 

That's great and wrong and all, but Eli was a sometimes above average starting QB and Lamar is a multi-time MVP.

[HappyDays]

He wasn't the main problem with the Ravens offense last night. By far their biggest problem was the OL. No QBs are going to look great when every other play is a jailbreak. The final series in particular was comical, with Justice Hill somehow ending up blocking 1v1 on Chris Jones a couple times. That is a major coaching blunder.

 

On that note, offensive coaching was the 2nd biggest problem for the Ravens last night. They threw away too many drives with joke play calls and were behind the sticks way too often. The multiple illegal formation plays is absolutely on coaching too. I won't let Harbaugh off the hook either - wasting two timeouts in the 3rd quarter was a massive blunder.

 

3rd was the Ravens outside WRs' failure to separate. Their offense had to live in the middle of the field and could only throw outside the hashes if the pass was behind the LoS, and we saw how much that limited them. They basically had two explosive plays that single handedly kept them in the game. Other than that their offense was a slog.

 

And then we come to Lamar Jackson. To his credit, every big play was on him. Some of those runs were vintage Lamar Jackson. The two explosive pass plays were excellent passes, period. His problem last night and in the past is he has a trigger that is a tick too slow. The missed TD to Likely on the final series is a good example of this. He missed a TD to his RB on the previous play for the same reason. And the issue is that when you're that close to the endzone, having a quick trigger is even more important because windows are closing instantly. It is a legitimate flaw to his game but it doesn't mean he is secretly a below average player or whatever.

 

FWIW Mahomes wasn't at his best last night either. His interception was laughably bad, he almost had another on a poor decision, and his ball placement was off on several throws. Everybody is a little bit sloppy in W1. The difference is Mahomes had much better offensive coaching, better weapons, and better protection.

 

What I saw last night was one team that was all around just more prepared to play than the other. The Ravens appeared to still be working out offseason kinks while the Chiefs looked like they hadn't missed a beat since February.

 

Edited September 6 by HappyDays

[DapperCam]

Last night is an example where if you just read the stat line you would think Jackson actually had a pretty good game. The truth is he couldn’t seem to complete a pass further than 5 yards down the field the majority of the game. A large chunk of his passing yards and only TD was on a play that was 90% his TE making an incredible play (even the broadcast said the throw only had a 0.3% chance of a TD based on their models). It was actually a pretty bad game for Jackson IMO. Especially on that last drive I’m not sure he even made one good/accurate pass. He is very lucky he didn’t have another INT. I can’t believe the DB dropped that nice pass right into his hands.

 

On the other hand…

- His offensive line was terrible. He did a good job to escape pressure.

- The short passing game seems to have been the game plan.

- He did well to recognize the defender had his back turned on his big TD play.

[Livinginthepast]

That was quintessential Lamar last night. He looked great running and juking players, threw a couple of great passes and a few awful ones and kept them in the game but for me he still doesn't have that extra something that wins the game.

[DeltaDigital]

he's serviceable... after such an anti clutch performance lastnight, its fairly clear he's nowhere near allens level. 

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Here’s my take:

 

Lamar is a unicorn. He doesn’t fit into a normal comparison with other QBs. He’s the best college QB I’ve ever seen (yes Tebow and Cam were awesome but it’s my opinion so sorry lol). He was Louisville offense and couldn’t be contained with his Michael Vick but more athletic skillset. You draft him because you have a certain style of offense you want to play with him leading it and that has worked for years in the regular season and against NFC teams that only prepare for him once ever couple years. BUT his style of play can’t be conformed to any OC and what they want to run. Other elite QBs don’t have that problem.

 

Lamar has improved since college as a passer but is still very inaccurate and his decision making throwing the ball is still lacking but because he is so much more athletic than everyone else, he doesn’t have to be great at reading coverages to win a lot of regular season games. BUT, when it matters most, like last night or in the playoffs he falls short because athletic ability only takes you so far. You have to be great at actually throwing the ball to continually win in the playoffs and other big moments.

 

He’s still a top ten QB in the league right now but I bet 5 years from now as Father Time catches up to his athletic ability, he won’t be in that discussion anymore, unless he improves on the intricacies of being an actual QB. 
 

These 5 will be better than him in 5 years:

 

1. Patrick Mahomes - because we have to include hardware and he’ll probably have another one in the next 5+ years he has to be #1

 

2. Josh Allen - His body will hold up because he’s evolving. He’s not running as much and he’s got a running game around him. 5+ years I expect McD to be gone and Josh to have at least one SB, hopefully in Buffalo 

 

3. Joe Burrow - If he could stay healthy he could easily be #1 on this list as the modern day more athletic version of Manning. He processes the game better than anyone else

 

4. CJ Stroud - He’s built like a champion. Love his ball placement and ability to lead his WRs. He’s the last of the for sure top tier can’t miss guys with no question marks.

 

5. Justin Herbert - Fresh start! We all know the talent level is right there with the top guys but like Lawrence he makes so many bad decisions. Unlike Trevor, he’s more talented and can make up for those mistakes and now that he has an actual head coach we’re about to see the real Justin Herbert, please stand up 

 

These 6 should be better than him in 5 year:

 

 

6. Drake Maye - Honestly if he went to anywhere else besides NE I’d have him above Herbert for 5-10 years from now because I think as a guy just coming into the league he’s got less mileage and more upside but he’s going to have to tough it out these first few years and carry NE to some .500 ball and I think he will before becoming great. 

 

7. Baker Mayfield - Finally living up to what I saw in him at OU. He’s a fighter and there’s no doubt in my mind that he will be a top 10 QB making the playoffs for an NFL team 5-10 years from now. Imagine him reuniting with McVay after Stafford retires ooooh boy 

 

8. Bo Nix - Perfect QB/Coach marriage and I soooo dislike Payton but he found his new Drew Brees. This is going to work and he’ll prove all his doubters wrong. He doesn’t have the arm talent as the top 6 guys but who needs it when you’re winning, ask Drew

 

9. Caleb Williams - He’s got a lot of Mahomes in him but unlike Mahomes I’m not sure he can harnass it into greatness. He plays hero ball when he doesn’t have to. Super accurate even on the run. He has the ability to be a top 5 guy but I need to see a lot of growth from what I saw at USC. 

 

10. Michael Penix - He is a bigger version of Tua and will hold up and also has a team/owner willing to pay to keep him upright. The falcons have and will continue to invest heavily in the offensive line 

 

11. Jared Goff - He’s not even 30 yet. He’s only gotten better since becoming the Lions franchise QB. He’ll still throw a great ball 5+ years from now 

I left off Tua and Hurts because I’m not sure they will survive 5 more years with Tua history and Hurts style of play but if they’re around then yes they’d be better than Lamar in 5 years imo. Also left off the old QBs 

 

Enjoy

 

Don't forget Jordan Love. He had a great season last year. He has all the tools to become a great QB.

[HappyDays]

47 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

An average QB would have completed both of the passes in the end zone on the two plays prior to the out of bounds pass to Likely.

 

I guess but only a handful of QBs make the pass to Bateman that gets them down there in the first place. Being able to drive the ball like that is a rare talent and we shouldn't throw it under the rug.

 

I feel that QBs like Allen and Jackson are sometimes a victim of their own success. They make so many incredible circus plays that keep their team in games they have no business being in, and then they make one mistake or bad throw and all the critics point and say "see?? I told you he sucks!" Like they are at times single handedly dragging their offenses into tight games that would otherwise be a losing blowout, and then they're solely blamed for not making the one more play that was needed to finish the job.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

That's a very good defense he played 

Got them to within one single toe

 

Lamar haters are weirdos just like Allen haters

Agree 100%. I was very skeptical of Allen (lack of faith in the Bills, his college resume) but him and Lamar are pretty similar. Both got a lot of hate (Lamar won a Heisman and idiots talked about him having to switch positions), they are super exciting, and are very good qbs who do it their way. 
 

the Ravens have one good wr and they came within an inch of going for a win against the 2 time defending champions. After a 85 yard drive in about a minute. Absolutely stupid to hate on him today. 

12 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

That was quintessential Lamar last night. He looked great running and juking players, threw a couple of great passes and a few awful ones and kept them in the game but for me he still doesn't have that extra something that wins the game.

A toe?

[C.Biscuit97]

30 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Here’s my take:

 

Lamar is a unicorn. He doesn’t fit into a normal comparison with other QBs. He’s the best college QB I’ve ever seen (yes Tebow and Cam were awesome but it’s my opinion so sorry lol). He was Louisville offense and couldn’t be contained with his Michael Vick but more athletic skillset. You draft him because you have a certain style of offense you want to play with him leading it and that has worked for years in the regular season and against NFC teams that only prepare for him once ever couple years. BUT his style of play can’t be conformed to any OC and what they want to run. Other elite QBs don’t have that problem.

 

Lamar has improved since college as a passer but is still very inaccurate and his decision making throwing the ball is still lacking but because he is so much more athletic than everyone else, he doesn’t have to be great at reading coverages to win a lot of regular season games. BUT, when it matters most, like last night or in the playoffs he falls short because athletic ability only takes you so far. You have to be great at actually throwing the ball to continually win in the playoffs and other big moments.

 

He’s still a top ten QB in the league right now but I bet 5 years from now as Father Time catches up to his athletic ability, he won’t be in that discussion anymore, unless he improves on the intricacies of being an actual QB. 
 

These 5 will be better than him in 5 years:

 

1. Patrick Mahomes - because we have to include hardware and he’ll probably have another one in the next 5+ years he has to be #1

 

2. Josh Allen - His body will hold up because he’s evolving. He’s not running as much and he’s got a running game around him. 5+ years I expect McD to be gone and Josh to have at least one SB, hopefully in Buffalo 

 

3. Joe Burrow - If he could stay healthy he could easily be #1 on this list as the modern day more athletic version of Manning. He processes the game better than anyone else

 

4. CJ Stroud - He’s built like a champion. Love his ball placement and ability to lead his WRs. He’s the last of the for sure top tier can’t miss guys with no question marks.

 

5. Justin Herbert - Fresh start! We all know the talent level is right there with the top guys but like Lawrence he makes so many bad decisions. Unlike Trevor, he’s more talented and can make up for those mistakes and now that he has an actual head coach we’re about to see the real Justin Herbert, please stand up 

 

These 6 should be better than him in 5 year:

 

 

6. Drake Maye - Honestly if he went to anywhere else besides NE I’d have him above Herbert for 5-10 years from now because I think as a guy just coming into the league he’s got less mileage and more upside but he’s going to have to tough it out these first few years and carry NE to some .500 ball and I think he will before becoming great. 

 

7. Baker Mayfield - Finally living up to what I saw in him at OU. He’s a fighter and there’s no doubt in my mind that he will be a top 10 QB making the playoffs for an NFL team 5-10 years from now. Imagine him reuniting with McVay after Stafford retires ooooh boy 

 

8. Bo Nix - Perfect QB/Coach marriage and I soooo dislike Payton but he found his new Drew Brees. This is going to work and he’ll prove all his doubters wrong. He doesn’t have the arm talent as the top 6 guys but who needs it when you’re winning, ask Drew

 

9. Caleb Williams - He’s got a lot of Mahomes in him but unlike Mahomes I’m not sure he can harnass it into greatness. He plays hero ball when he doesn’t have to. Super accurate even on the run. He has the ability to be a top 5 guy but I need to see a lot of growth from what I saw at USC. 

 

10. Michael Penix - He is a bigger version of Tua and will hold up and also has a team/owner willing to pay to keep him upright. The falcons have and will continue to invest heavily in the offensive line 

 

11. Jared Goff - He’s not even 30 yet. He’s only gotten better since becoming the Lions franchise QB. He’ll still throw a great ball 5+ years from now 

I left off Tua and Hurts because I’m not sure they will survive 5 more years with Tua history and Hurts style of play but if they’re around then yes they’d be better than Lamar in 5 years imo. Also left off the old QBs 

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

Agree on the first 5 but yikes on the second part.

 

 

i will bet you a lot of money that Maye and Nix don’t win multiple MVps and win 70% of their starts. DM to let me know the amount.

[Allen2Moulds]

I think this was the wrong game to bash Lamar. 

Do I think he's over hyped by the media? Yes   

Is he on Allen's level? No

 

But that was a good performance last night.  KC has one of the best defenses in the league, and they shut down Henry.  Lamar almost beat them single handedly.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree on the first 5 but yikes on the second part.

 

 

i will bet you a lot of money that Maye and Nix don’t win multiple MVps and win 70% of their starts. DM to let me know the amount.

Every year, everyone goes "multiple of these rookie QB's can be at least good to great QB's" and then fastforward 3 years and like one of them at most is even okay.

 

The Trevor Lawrence/Mac Jones/Justin Fields class didn't seem so bad after their first or second years.  Fastforward to today, everyone from that class has been cut or traded except Trevor, and Trevor has 1 playoff berth in his career.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

This isn’t any great secret.  Lamar is a marginally above avg passer and an excellent rusher.

 

Hes certainly better than avg and in totality a top 10 QB, but he’s not in the same universe as Mahomes, Allen, and when healthy Burrow.

 

When Baltimore played the Chiefs in the playoffs, they went away from the run and force fed the passing game and it flopped miserably.

 

I have nothing against Lamar, but the media goes out of the way to prop him up.

The same media that trashed him in the draft after winning a Heisman? 
 

he isn’t the best passer. But he helped make Andrew’s into a weapon (3rd rounder) and has played with a lot of crap at the receiver position (Flowers is the best receiver he’s ever played with and he’s in his 2nd year). Last year’s Ravens team was one of the most dominant DVOA teams of all time. 
 

dude has a lot to prove in the playoffs and certainly has his flaws. But to act like it’s the media bias that he is one of the most electrifying qbs to ever play and he doesn’t win 70% of his starts (his backups have a losing record when they have replaced him) is wild. He’s really good, albeit flawed. 

[T.E.]

35 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

That's great and wrong and all, but Eli was a sometimes above average starting QB and Lamar is a multi-time MVP.

Nothing about it is wrong. Manning is one of the most clutch QBs of all time. Jackson chokes in every big game he plays in and can't read defenses. His MVP award last year was a complete joke.

Edited September 6 by T.E.