How much better is Joe Brady?

[Allen2Moulds]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

i believe if people understood how EPA functions as it relates to QB play they wouldn't be using it to differentiate between OCs, in particular as it pertains to Allen

 

One of my absolute favorite parts of Allen's game is how ruthless he is in high leverage situations ie third/fourth and long, third downs in own territory, etc...these are down/distances that have huge EPA implications by virtue of converting simply because his play in these spots vs avg QB performance is so lopsided. The Miami first down for example: EP of third and 12 from your opponent's 35 is roughly 2.45...Allen breaks contain and hits the RB down on the one for first and goal. That single play was worth over 4.3 EPA and it had little to nothing to do w whoever happened to be OC

I agree that speaks a lot more to Allen, then it does the OC (Brady), but as we all saw last year at this time, those opportunities weren't even there. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I agree that speaks a lot more to Allen, then it does the OC (Brady), but as we all saw last year at this time, those opportunities weren't even there. 

i hear you on the opportunities- ive been pleasantly surprised by how many early/easy looks we've have

 

my point was just to illustrate that EPA isnt necessarily indicative of the performance of your offensive coordinator. the offense was certainly very different under dorsey but it also ranked highly in efficiency metrics

[hondo in seattle]

53 minutes ago, mannc said:

I share these concerns.  I think the offense has been overly conservative the last two weeks, almost like Brady is protecting a rookie QB.  He's running into a lot of 8-man boxes (albeit with a fair level of success) and never takes advantage of favorable down and distance situations (like second and 1) to take a shot downfield.  The fact that Josh is averaging 10 yards per attempt is great, but it also suggests that Brady is not calling enough passing plays.  So far, so good, since we are 2-0, but I think this approach, if it continues, is going to cost us.  A team with Josh Allen at QB should be more aggressive in the passing game.      

 

The great football strategist, Sun Tzu, once said, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended."  And if that's what Brady is mostly doing, great.  But sometimes it's not what he's doing.  

 

And as another famous football strategist, George S. Patton, may or may not have once said, "If you have a big gun, shoot it."  We're winning and scoring points so I should probably just shut up but I'd like to see Brady make max use of Josh's arm talent.

 

 

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I don't know what the stats are and honestly I don't care.  The team has played better since Dorsey was fired.  The Bills are 9-2 with Dorsey as OC and the offense wasn't to blame in either loss.

You do mean Brady ?

 ps yea I'm a smart ass

Edited September 18 by 3rdand12

[3rdand12]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

You do mean Brady ?

 

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

The great football strategist, Sun Tzu, once said, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended."  And if that's what Brady is mostly doing, great.  But sometimes it's not what he's doing.  

 

And as another famous football strategist, George S. Patton, may or may not have once said, "If you have a big gun, shoot it."  We're winning and scoring points so I should probably just shut up but I'd like to see Brady make max use of Josh's arm talent.

 

 

OMG 

 he really was a great strategist. I remember him as if it was yesterday.

We used to drink tea at halftime back in the day

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

The great football strategist, Sun Tzu, once said, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended."  And if that's what Brady is mostly doing, great.  But sometimes it's not what he's doing.  

 

And as another famous football strategist, George S. Patton, may or may not have once said, "If you have a big gun, shoot it."  We're winning and scoring points so I should probably just shut up but I'd like to see Brady make max use of Josh's arm talent.

 

 

IMO, Brady is making good use of Allen’s arm strength, look at the passes to Shakir for instance, I believe that the “general strategy” is to use as much clock as is “practicable” during games, this keeps the opposing offensive off the field, and wears out the defense sooner, sure throw some long balls, but realize that those long balls are low percentage completion rate plays, and lead to punting with some frequency, 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

And as another famous football strategist, George S. Patton, may or may not have once said, "If you have a big gun, shoot it."  We're winning and scoring points so I should probably just shut up but I'd like to see Brady make max use of Josh's arm talent.

 

I think it's more on Brandon Beane than Joe Brady. We don't have the vertical receiving talent to take advantage of his arm, unfortunately. The volume rushing/high percentage pass play offense that we've been seeing is exactly what I expected given the personnel. Admittedly it has been more efficient and productive than I expected though.

[HardyBoy]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think it's more on Brandon Beane than Joe Brady. We don't have the vertical receiving talent to take advantage of his arm, unfortunately. The volume rushing/high percentage pass play offense that we've been seeing is exactly what I expected given the personnel. Admittedly it has been more efficient and productive than I expected though.

 

Yet Tua is an excellent deep ball passer. 
 

Arm strength isn’t about throwing it deep, it’s about getting the ball into tight windows. It’s about throwing outside the numbers across the field from the far hash.

 

All things Allen does regularly and has been doing this year.

 

Also, Bills YAC is up significantly this year, if that continues I’m sure partially that will be on Allen getting better and going back to working on fundamentals this offseason, but also Brady’s scheme.

 

He’s getting people into favorable matchups through scheme and then getting them advantageous leverage not just to make the catch, but get YAC. 

 

He also is working on how Allen’s eyes should move during the play (wild he hadn’t been coached on that before in terms of matching play design and reads with his eye movement). 

[3rdand12]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:28 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I think it's more on Brandon Beane than Joe Brady. We don't have the vertical receiving talent to take advantage of his arm, unfortunately. The volume rushing/high percentage pass play offense that we've been seeing is exactly what I expected given the personnel. Admittedly it has been more efficient and productive than I expected though.

I might suggest Bills will get players open deep, there is enough speed/ explosion at the break / separation skillset to beat some one on ones when called upon

 No need for a dominant passing game yet. I would be fine if Bills could play the whole season like this !

 But each week is a new matchup. And I do look forward to see the pass game open up when called upon

11 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Yet Tua is an excellent deep ball passer. 
 

Arm strength isn’t about throwing it deep, it’s about getting the ball into tight windows. It’s about throwing outside the numbers across the field from the far hash.

 

All things Allen does regularly and has been doing this year.

 

Also, Bills YAC is up significantly this year, if that continues I’m sure partially that will be on Allen getting better and going back to working on fundamentals this offseason, but also Brady’s scheme.

 

He’s getting people into favorable matchups through scheme and then getting them advantageous leverage not just to make the catch, but get YAC. 

 

He also is working on how Allen’s eyes should move during the play (wild he hadn’t been coached on that before in terms of matching play design and reads with his eye movement). 

Their failing last few years. Now overcoming that by running better schemes and patterns via execution and darned nice throws

 Good insight

[billsbackto81]

He's had a lot of short fields so far this season. His situational play calling and commitment to running the ball has really worked well with the skill set of his players. We have no "field stretchers". We have intermediate route runners with exceptional hands and JA is clicking at 75%👍

 

Hate to say it, but getting rid of Morse has in my eyes been a game changer for this scheme. He was a good zone blocker with decent pass pro but now this line is full of road graters that are still good in pass pro, and their nasty. I'm impressed with Cooks' running between the tackles these 2 games. Some of those holes were blocked open so we'll. Kudos Kromer👍

 

Brady gets it. Ball control, time consumption, 3rd and short and unleash Josh when needed.

 

His game plan has been solid 2 games in. 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Yet Tua is an excellent deep ball passer. 
 

Arm strength isn’t about throwing it deep, it’s about getting the ball into tight windows. It’s about throwing outside the numbers across the field from the far hash.

 

All things Allen does regularly and has been doing this year.

 

Also, Bills YAC is up significantly this year, if that continues I’m sure partially that will be on Allen getting better and going back to working on fundamentals this offseason, but also Brady’s scheme.

 

He’s getting people into favorable matchups through scheme and then getting them advantageous leverage not just to make the catch, but get YAC. 

 

He also is working on how Allen’s eyes should move during the play (wild he hadn’t been coached on that before in terms of matching play design and reads with his eye movement). 

 

Not just scheme but Brady has done a great job of asking his players to do what they do well. It's cut down on the mistakes by a lot and the whole offense looks a lot less janky than it did in Dorsey's final few games.

 

One thing from the Dolphins game that I just can't shake though is the first drive coming out of halftime. That was the offense's chance to put the game away. Instead they punted after converting just one 1st down. The key play was 2nd and 7. Dolphins are showing a loaded box and the game situation is practically begging for play action. I think it was the easiest call of the night. Instead we handed off to Cook for 0 yards and two plays later we're giving the ball back to Miami. I was incredibly nervous at that point, knowing that the Dolphins were one TD drive away from pulling us back into a tough game.

 

That whole sequence gets washed away because of Tua's idiotic pick six on that next drive, but it really bothered me and in the immediate aftermath of the game I was harsher on Brady than I should have been because that sequence was fresh in my mind. I know, I know, all coaches have a bad series of play calls from time to time, I just hated how we threw away a chance to shut the door on the Dolphins comeback. Can't have that against better opponents. It's also the second game in a row where I thought we missed good opportunities to mix in some play action after the defense adjusted to stop the run. Hopefully Brady mixes it in more as the season progresses because Allen is absolutely lethal on those plays.

 

TL;DR I'm impressed with Brady's handling of his personnel, I'm less impressed with his situational play calling so far.

[Lost]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not just scheme but Brady has done a great job of asking his players to do what they do well. It's cut down on the mistakes by a lot and the whole offense looks a lot less janky than it did in Dorsey's final few games.

 

One thing from the Dolphins game that I just can't shake though is the first drive coming out of halftime. That was the offense's chance to put the game away. Instead they punted after converting just one 1st down. The key play was 2nd and 7. Dolphins are showing a loaded box and the game situation is practically begging for play action. I think it was the easiest call of the night. Instead we handed off to Cook for 0 yards and two plays later we're giving the ball back to Miami. I was incredibly nervous at that point, knowing that the Dolphins were one TD drive away from pulling us back into a tough game.

 

That whole sequence gets washed away because of Tua's idiotic pick six on that next drive, but it really bothered me and in the immediate aftermath of the game I was harsher on Brady than I should have been because that sequence was fresh in my mind. I know, I know, all coaches have a bad series of play calls from time to time, I just hated how we threw away a chance to shut the door on the Dolphins comeback. Can't have that against better opponents. It's also the second game in a row where I thought we missed good opportunities to mix in some play action after the defense adjusted to stop the run. Hopefully Brady mixes it in more as the season progresses because Allen is absolutely lethal on those plays.

 

TL;DR I'm impressed with Brady's handling of his personnel, I'm less impressed with his situational play calling so far.

 

And for some reason brady will never ever take a shot on 2nd and short situations.   It's always a handoff to Cook up the middle.  Drives me nuts.  

[RunTheBall]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:28 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I think it's more on Brandon Beane than Joe Brady. We don't have the vertical receiving talent to take advantage of his arm, unfortunately. The volume rushing/high percentage pass play offense that we've been seeing is exactly what I expected given the personnel. Admittedly it has been more efficient and productive than I expected though.

The reason being that almost every team is playing a 2 high shell to limit explosive plays. Passing stats are down across the league through the first 2 games. McBradyBeane are ahead of the curve as much as most of Bills Mafia bitched about us running the ball more. Mahomes made the transition last year to more of a short passing game, take what they give you, and make 3-4 off script plays a game. We are making that transition this year. How do you take advantage of the 2 high? Run the ball, short passes with YAC, take what they give you. That’s exactly what Josh is buying into right now and it’s working.

 

Here’s the thing - I don’t think Josh is a good deep ball passer. Certainly not as good as Mahomes. He’s great on the 20-30 yard routes, probably best in the league, but he consistently misses the long balls. We saw it all last year, and we’ve seen it this year. He had MVS with 2 steps on his guy for a TD and flat out missed him.

 

Also, everyone has been rightly complaining that Josh has had to do too much, carry the team too often. In this type of offense he doesn’t HAVE to. If he needs to, like AZ, he can take the game over. But the difference is he doesn’t have to do it every game. That’s a good thing. It’s more sustainable.

 

 

[ProcessImproverMan]

13 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

The reason being that almost every team is playing a 2 high shell to limit explosive plays. Passing stats are down across the league through the first 2 games. McBradyBeane are ahead of the curve as much as most of Bills Mafia bitched about us running the ball more. Mahomes made the transition last year to more of a short passing game, take what they give you, and make 3-4 off script plays a game. We are making that transition this year. How do you take advantage of the 2 high? Run the ball, short passes with YAC, take what they give you. That’s exactly what Josh is buying into right now and it’s working.

 

Here’s the thing - I don’t think Josh is a good deep ball passer. Certainly not as good as Mahomes. He’s great on the 20-30 yard routes, probably best in the league, but he consistently misses the long balls. We saw it all last year, and we’ve seen it this year. He had MVS with 2 steps on his guy for a TD and flat out missed him.

 

Also, everyone has been rightly complaining that Josh has had to do too much, carry the team too often. In this type of offense he doesn’t HAVE to. If he needs to, like AZ, he can take the game over. But the difference is he doesn’t have to do it every game. That’s a good thing. It’s more sustainable.

 

 

And the good thing is Allen seems perfectly happy not having to take over a game to win it. It was nice seeing us win against Miami even though offensively we didn't do a whole lot, Allen included. We just didn't make stupid mistakes and scored enough to win.  And Allen was perfectly happy with it. 

 

Allen has had to learn he doesn't have to force everything to win at times, and that game against Miami was a good sign of his growth. Take the easy plays and work the system and make the occasional big play when needed. 

 

Some QBs are egomaniacs who want to be the big star in games and it's nice to see some of the ego being checked with Allen in taking what is given. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

And the good thing is Allen seems perfectly happy not having to take over a game to win it. It was nice seeing us win against Miami even though offensively we didn't do a whole lot, Allen included. We just didn't make stupid mistakes and scored enough to win.  And Allen was perfectly happy with it. 

 

Allen has had to learn he doesn't have to force everything to win at times, and that game against Miami was a good sign of his growth. Take the easy plays and work the system and make the occasional big play when needed. 

 

Some QBs are egomaniacs who want to be the big star in games and it's nice to see some of the ego being checked with Allen in taking what is given. 

 

I never seen Josh as an egomaniac.  He just wants to win at any cost and will try to do whatever it takes to win.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I never seen Josh as an egomaniac.  He just wants to win at any cost and will try to do whatever it takes to win.

 

Yea I don't think Josh's mistakes have ever been ego. They have been recklessness. He is trying really hard to reign it in. Like I said before there was that play moving right where he really wanted to throw back across the field to Dawson Knox and if he does he probably completes it 6/10. But It also gets picked say 2/10 and in a game like that one where the Bills were in control it was not a risk he needed to take and he recognised that and restrained himself. I don't ever want to take all the heroball out of Josh Allen - it's just about how and when to use it. 

[GunnerBill]

On 9/18/2024 at 5:24 PM, GoBills808 said:

I'm just as interested to see if we can stick w this run heavy approach in a close/big game tbh

 

I don't have the data to support this but I have a feeling we run the ball significantly better in low pressure situations

 

Definitely the question that still needs answering is how can the offense perform generally in a close, high scoring shootout type game. 

[ganesh]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:07 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

The great football strategist, Sun Tzu, once said, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended."  And if that's what Brady is mostly doing, great.  But sometimes it's not what he's doing.  

 

And as another famous football strategist, George S. Patton, may or may not have once said, "If you have a big gun, shoot it."  We're winning and scoring points so I should probably just shut up but I'd like to see Brady make max use of Josh's arm talent.

 

 

I think the 2nd part will come.  The WRs need to still gel with Allen to give him those opportunities.   The throw to Johnson should have been a TD and not a 1st and goal at the 1 yard line

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I never seen Josh as an egomaniac.  He just wants to win at any cost and will try to do whatever it takes to win.

most overrated

[uninja]

12 hours ago, Lost said:

 

And for some reason brady will never ever take a shot on 2nd and short situations.   It's always a handoff to Cook up the middle.  Drives me nuts.  

 

It's been more effective than it hasn't been tbh and maybe the PA shots just haven't been there. Seems to me like they're content to take that until it proves ineffective instead of having to put more stuff on tape that they can save for later in the season.

[Scott7975]

This is one thing I would like to see changed in Joe Brady offense.  They need to mix this stuff up more.  Yes, there is something to be said about dictating to a defense what you are going to do and still be successful at it. There is also something to be said about keeping a defense guessing and on their heels.

 

 

Edited September 20 by Scott7975