How much better is Joe Brady?

[Trev]

Not better at all. He is a dink dunk coordinator. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

The only statistic I care about is the Win-Loss record.  If I'm correct, they were 5-5 with Dorsey and 5-1 with Brady, and the schedule was arguably more difficult with Brady (and the season was on the line).  The running game looked the best it has looked in many years (again, I don't know what the stats say, but I don't really care).  I'm on board with the OP in being curious about how it's all going to play out.  I'm optimistic that it will play out well, as I believe the offense is more diverse and thus much less predictable for opposing defenses.  Although they may not have a WR as good as Diggs, assuming everyone is healthy, there are lot of options among the run game, the RB passing game, Kincaid and Knox at TE, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, and the other guys (Hollins, MVS, etc.)  There is also more pre-snap motion, which further disguises the plays before the ball is snapped.  I believe that the Dorsey offense was far too focused on Diggs and became stale and predictable.

 

6-1 actually with Brady and the SOS was definitely harder under Brady.  In fact, Dorsey had 7 duds in his 10 games, went 2-5 in those games and was lucky not to lose the other 2 on the final play of the game where both Giants and Bucs blew the game on the final play.  And the win % of the opponents in those games were a paltry .436% where Brady's SOS was over .500

[dpberr]

We'll find out in game #3 with the Jags.  At that point, the Jags will have reviewed two full games of his plays.

 

A good coordinator and a great coordinator are separated by the execution of the countermeasures.  That's where Ken Dorsey got in trouble - defenses countered his plays and he didn't have the answers.

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i would encourage you folks to go and watch some panthers 2020 offense before you get too excited

 

it wasn't just laughably bad and predictable, it was boring af

 

Lol...come on.  You are talking about a team helmed by Teddy Bridgewater, and you want to draw conclusions about that in regards to an offense led by Josh Allen?  Like you really think its going to be the same offense?  You think Brady just copy and pasted the same playbook and just said here Allen, this is what we are running, same as I ran with Bridgewater?  

 

The season can't start soon enough.  

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Lol...come on.  You are talking about a team helmed by Teddy Bridgewater, and you want to draw conclusions about that in regards to an offense led by Josh Allen?  Like you really think its going to be the same offense?  You think Brady just copy and pasted the same playbook and just said here Allen, this is what we are running, same as I ran with Bridgewater?  

 

The season can't start soon enough.  

i understand you live in an internet where it's reasonable to ask people questions about things you imagine they said but actually didnt

 

ill ask some actual ones- like why an offense featuring christian mccaffrey and dj moore fails to produce...and you obviously forget bridgewater was a 3/$63M signing at the time, they went out and got him because they were excited about the offense after he went 5-0 for the Saints after Brees got hurt

 

 

[HappyDays]

I definitely think the narrative that Brady saved the season is way overblown, for a number of reasons. But I'm willing to see what it looks like now that he's had the full offseason to install his own offense. Might as well, right? We've spent months arguing about the offense and how effective Brady can be in leading this group of weapons to a championship caliber level. In 5 days we'll start getting answers. I find myself running out of new things to say until we see the results.

[Bangarang]

I don't know right now. I'll have to see how the offense performs when it's his playbook and his guys.

I don't know right now. I'll have to see how the offense performs when it's his playbook and his guys.

[Chaos]

Josh Allen plus Ken Dorsey is very good Combo. Josh Allen plus Joe Brady is a very good combo

 

Brady or Dorsey with any QB between Kelly and Allen, an inconsequential combination. 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Josh Allen plus Ken Dorsey is very good Combo. Josh Allen plus Joe Brady is a very good combo

 

Brady or Dorsey with any QB between Kelly and Allen, an inconsequential combination. 

yes

 

i think the larger issue is that you should probably have higher ambitions for this offense than just promoting whoever happens to be QB coach after the previous OC gets fired or leaves

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

yes

 

i think the larger issue is that you should probably have higher ambitions for this offense than just promoting whoever happens to be QB coach after the previous OC gets fired or leaves

It’s a reasonable discussion to wonder why the Bills are so reluctant to hire from without.  Most teams do. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

It’s a reasonable discussion to wonder why the Bills are so reluctant to hire from without.  Most teams do. 

Do they?

 

Shanny lost Saleh and promoted Demeco internally. Lost Demeco and hired Wilks externally. Fired Wilks and hired Sorensen internally. 
 

His offensive coaching tree is littered with internal promotions.

 

The Pats were very similar. BOB worked his way up to OC when Josh McDaniels left. When McDaniels got fired, he came back immediately. 
 

Teams with high staff turnover (read: bad teams) do a lot of external hires. Teams that are not bad don’t really seem to do the same.

[McBean]

He was electric at LSU leading probably the best offense in college football history.

 

Hopefully it spills over here as well.

[Mikie2times]

I don't think the Brady's offense last year was much better. Statistically they weren't. I do think he compliments and understands Allen very well and to me that is a critical piece. Brady's use of running backs and WR screens is a huge compliment to Allen's game. I don't want Allen always having to keep us on schedule. It results in too many downfield throws and rushes on his part. Let the run game and WR screens help with the schedule. Then make the running back a focus in the passing game because it forces on schedule throws. Put Josh in a position to make plays when he's sitting on a decent hand. I think that's where we see the best version of Allen which we see as well in his play action stats. 

 

It seemed like the period from Tampa Bay to our playoff loss a few years back is when we did this the best. Allen was consistently hitting our running backs short and we ran the ball well. Defenses had no answers. Then as time progressed we got back to no longer running, never passing to the running back. We asked Josh to hit the underneath stuff and that's not really him. Then we told him to not run. Go figure, we had issues staying on schedule and we couldn't get consistency.  

 

[Chaos]

31 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do they?

 

Shanny lost Saleh and promoted Demeco internally. Lost Demeco and hired Wilks externally. Fired Wilks and hired Sorensen internally. 
 

His offensive coaching tree is littered with internal promotions.

 

The Pats were very similar. BOB worked his way up to OC when Josh McDaniels left. When McDaniels got fired, he came back immediately. 
 

Teams with high staff turnover (read: bad teams) do a lot of external hires. Teams that are not bad don’t really seem to do the same.

Chiefs eagles niners ravens have gone outside the echo chamber with some success 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

He was electric at LSU leading probably the best offense in college football history.

 

Hopefully it spills over here as well.

 

His offense there was loaded with elite NFL talent. It'd be saying something if they weren't electric 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Chiefs eagles niners ravens have gone outside the echo chamber with some success 

Who did the Chiefs hire outside of echo chambers?

 

Spags? That was 5 years ago.

 

Since then, they kept EB as their OC and when he left, they brought back Matt Nagy who started there. 

 

The Niners have again promoted internally on the defensive side since 2017. They didn’t last year and they fired the dude immediately and replaced him with a guy internally.

 

The Eagles built an entire new staff in 2021 because they fired everyone. When Steichen and Gannon got poached, they promoted internally at OC. They hired an outside DC and basically fired him midseason. 
 

The Ravens promoted Roman to OC internally. He spent 17-18 as an offensive assistant until he got the OC job. Wink Martindale was the LB coach there for 5 years before he got the DC job which he held for years. After they fired him, they went external. McDonald got poached and they replaced him with their inside LB coach, again, promoting internally.

 

So yeah, most good teams mostly promote internally, just like the Bills.

[Mr. WEO]

I would put him somewhere between Peter and Greg

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Lol...come on.  You are talking about a team helmed by Teddy Bridgewater, and you want to draw conclusions about that in regards to an offense led by Josh Allen?  Like you really think its going to be the same offense?  You think Brady just copy and pasted the same playbook and just said here Allen, this is what we are running, same as I ran with Bridgewater?  

 

The season can't start soon enough.  

You are fighting the good fight here, but don't argue with folks bringing up the QB-less Panthers under Brady as a window onto his ability. It's useless. They are the arguably dumbest Bills fans on the internet, and shouldn't be given the time of day.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think Diggs was still the highest targeted WR by a lot after Brady took over.

 

IMO, cutting down Diggs and Davis targets some and giving them more to Shakir/Kincaid preceded Brady.

 

Kincaid started seeing ~6-8 targets per game after NE1 and stayed basically around there for the rest of the year.

 

Shakir went from 30% of offensive snaps and 1 target per game to 60%+ snaps and 4-6 targets per game around NE1/TB and again, continued from there.

 

Even Josh running preceded Brady a bit. He had 22 rushes in the first 6 games, a little under 4 per game. He had 7 for both NE1 and TB and finished the back half of the year averaging a little over 8 rushes a game.

 

I used to think Brady cut down on Diggs/Davis and took the shackles off Josh right around Denver as well, but just looking at the numbers, he kinda just finished the adjustments that Dorsey had started to make. This actually makes me feel better about Brady.

 

I also believe that Brady shortened the game going for more shorter passes.  I think Dorsey tried to air out the ball more with the longer passes. 

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

His offense there was loaded with elite NFL talent. It'd be saying something if they weren't electric 

The BMW car still needed to be built for experiencing its class.  Go Bills !!!

[Don Otreply]

Way better, check the win loss stat for Dorsey and Brady last season, really, what else actually matters?