Young American men in decline

[phypon]

4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

you've been listening to trump too much:  

"The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one"

It would be nice if you could keep Trump stuff out of this.  This has actually been a good, healthy discussion up until that point.  Let's keep it clean and no hitting below the belt.  It's an important topic. 

3 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

IF younger women are dating older men, Who are the older women dating?

 

While older women dating younger men happens, it's still rare enough to be made into a movie.

I think what happens a lot is that women get to a point and want to get down with their bad selves (with propaganda leading the way in that line of thinking).  So, they divorce thinking they can do better (women initiate divorce 80% of the time in all divorces).  They hit the dating pool and hook up with younger men to prove that they "still got it".  Then they realize that they were nothing more than low hanging fruit and an easy lay.  Then, they regret getting divorced once they realize that the man they married was a good man and a provider and that they are simply too old to run around with the 20 yo's.  Then they have regret.  Then, it's boxed wine and cat land for them.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

IF younger women are dating older men, Who are the older women dating?

 

While older women dating younger men happens, it's still rare enough to be made into a movie.

Older women are mostly in relationships with older men.  By the time the cohorts reach 50-69, the percent single even out.  Perhaps as women age their selectivity decreases.  But they're still not in relationships with young men.

[phypon]

3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Older women are mostly in relationships with older men.  By the time the cohorts reach 50-69, the percent single even out.  Perhaps as women age their selectivity decreases.  But they're still not in relationships with young men.

Respectfully, it's not that their selectivity decreases, it's that their options decrease.  At that age range, a man has more options than a woman of the same age. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

13 minutes ago, phypon said:

I think what happens a lot is that women get to a point and want to get down with their bad selves (with propaganda leading the way in that line of thinking).  So, they divorce thinking they can do better (women initiate divorce 80% of the time in all divorces).  They hit the dating pool and hook up with younger men to prove that they "still got it".  Then they realize that they were nothing more than low hanging fruit and an easy lay.  Then, they regret getting divorced once they realize that the man they married was a good man and a provider and that they are simply too old to run around with the 20 yo's.  Then they have regret.  Then, it's boxed wine and cat land for them.

This is pure fantasy except the percent of divorces initiated by women.  My wife always says that if a man is leaving a marriage, he already has a replacement.  She's not wrong from my experience.  Women leave without a ready new partner much more often.  They often just want out.  Then they go back to dating after some recovery.  The vast majority find someone but are more careful about who they choose.

[phypon]

5 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

This is pure fantasy except the percent of divorces initiated by women.  My wife always says that if a man is leaving a marriage, he already has a replacement.  She's not wrong from my experience.  Women leave without a ready new partner much more often.  They often just want out.  Then they go back to dating after some recovery.  The vast majority find someone but are more careful about who they choose.

You're actually proving my point.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

8 minutes ago, phypon said:

Respectfully, it's not that their selectivity decreases, it's that their options decrease.  At that age range, a man has more options than a woman of the same age. 

To some degree, I agree.  Although the socioeconomic rise of women was just getting started in that cohort's early work years.  Now it's in full swing.  Higher earning or higher net worth women are attractive to many men

[phypon]

2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

To some degree, I agree.  Although the socioeconomic rise of women was just getting started in that cohort's early work years.  Now it's in full swing.  Higher earning or higher net worth women are attractive to many men

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  Again, I don't have a link to specific studies, but have seen them confirming the opposite.  Men don't care about a women's degree or how much she makes.  To a point, I should say.  It's nice if a woman can contribute financially, but it's not a deal breaker for men.  Conversely, the majority of women won't date a man that makes less than she does.  Also, which is well spoken of in men's community's, when a woman makes more than a man she usually exhibits traits of what is known as a "boss b*tch", which is not attractive for most men.

[Orlando Buffalo]

I teach high school and see a different dynamic then most people. The bottom 40% of guys don't try to compete for girls, I assume they rely on porn. The girls often ignore any guy that is not "going to be special". There is one dynamic that appears to exist for college kids amongst my sons friends that is crazy to me, which is they all want to get their degree and then look for a serious girl. I don't understand that mentality at all, you have to balance your life. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

31 minutes ago, phypon said:

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  Again, I don't have a link to specific studies, but have seen them confirming the opposite.  Men don't care about a women's degree or how much she makes.  To a point, I should say.  It's nice if a woman can contribute financially, but it's not a deal breaker for men.  Conversely, the majority of women won't date a man that makes less than she does.  Also, which is well spoken of in men's community's, when a woman makes more than a man she usually exhibits traits of what is known as a "boss b*tch", which is not attractive for most men.

Sounds like some personal bias is coming into play.  I know many couples in which the female is the top earner.  Most of my female colleagues are in that situation.  But they have standards other than money.  Intelligence is high on the list.

[phypon]

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Sounds like some personal bias is coming into play.  I know many couples in which the female is the top earner.  Most of my female colleagues are in that situation.  But they have standards other than money.  Intelligence is high on the list.

No, not at all.  Not a bias anyway, but definitely personal experience, there's a difference.  I was hoping that this could be a healthy discussion, but of course you had to devolve to a low level.

 

First off, there is data out there to support what I've said.  Secondly, I'm pretty sure you said that you've been married for 39 years (which is awesome and I commend you for that, it's clearly not common today, so kudos to you and your wife for having a sustainable and healthy relationship).  You haven't been out in the "wild" for quite a long time.  A lot has changed in a short time.  You simply do not have the personal experience to support your assumptions.  If you've been married for 39 years you have to be at least 60 and and only single for a few years.  You're probably older than that, but at the bare minimum you have to be around 60.  I have no idea how old your colleagues are or how long they have been in a relationship, which could be a factor, but all of the data out there suggests otherwise in today's world of modern dating.

 

In addition as to why men are dropping out of the dating game, there are a lot of single mothers out there and men without children are opting out of dating single mothers.  

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

you've been listening to trump too much:  

"The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one"

 

The topic was men and women between the ages of 18-29.  And since women tend to date/marry guys 3-4 years older, the age range of men should reflect that and probably go to age 33.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

49 minutes ago, phypon said:

No, not at all.  Not a bias anyway, but definitely personal experience, there's a difference.  I was hoping that this could be a healthy discussion, but of course you had to devolve to a low level.

 

First off, there is data out there to support what I've said.  Secondly, I'm pretty sure you said that you've been married for 39 years (which is awesome and I commend you for that, it's clearly not common today, so kudos to you and your wife for having a sustainable and healthy relationship).  You haven't been out in the "wild" for quite a long time.  A lot has changed in a short time.  You simply do not have the personal experience to support your assumptions.  If you've been married for 39 years you have to be at least 60 and and only single for a few years.  You're probably older than that, but at the bare minimum you have to be around 60.  I have no idea how old your colleagues are or how long they have been in a relationship, which could be a factor, but all of the data out there suggests otherwise in today's world of modern dating.

 

In addition as to why men are dropping out of the dating game, there are a lot of single mothers out there and men without children are opting out of dating single mothers.  

My colleagues are ofall ages over about 25 which includes residents and nurses.  Lots of dating goes on.   While I'm not involved, I certainly see it and hear about it (not as much now that I'm retired but still some).  And while I'm old, I'm not blind.  I'm in a couple of clubs with a healthy population of professional women.  The single ones seem to find dates to most events that encourage them.  I actually think your take is the old fashioned one.  While education or financial assets might not be top on mens list they sure don't hurt.  I don't believe it's only women that look for horizontal or higher socioeconomic status in mates.

Edited September 1 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Biden is Mentally Fit]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/08/23/emhoff-harris-sex-symbol/

 

We live in an era where The Second Gentleman, the one that knocked up his nanny, is considered a sex symbol. How is a young guy supposed to compete?

[OrangeBills]

8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Saw this discussion yesterday.  My knee jerk response was "cry me a river".  But the stats are astonishing.  4x the avg suicide rate, low relationship rates, high unemployment , low college graduation rates etc. Women meanwhile are gaining.  Higher incomes, higher graduation rates, more selective choices of mates (by and large consideration of only horizontal or upward socioeconomic romantic relationships with men).  Who's to blame if anyone?  What's the solution?  Is it a real issue?

 

 

Liberal/Democrat/Marxist Identity politics

 

Part of the takeover and destruction of the Greatest Civilization

 

 

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Liberal/Democrat/Marxist Identity politics

 

Part of the takeover and destruction of the Greatest Civilization

 

 

There we go.  It’s the government’s fault someone is an undesirable loser.  What a crock. Get out and get to work.  Quit blaming  other people for your lack of confidence, ability,  or success.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Liberal/Democrat/Marxist Identity politics

 

Part of the takeover and destruction of the Greatest Civilization

 

 

No, these are findings. Identity politics may explain them however 

[The Frankish Reich]

4 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

I teach high school and see a different dynamic then most people. The bottom 40% of guys don't try to compete for girls, I assume they rely on porn. The girls often ignore any guy that is not "going to be special". There is one dynamic that appears to exist for college kids amongst my sons friends that is crazy to me, which is they all want to get their degree and then look for a serious girl. I don't understand that mentality at all, you have to balance your life. 

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think there are two or three very corrosive things out there that are at work.

For girls, social media.

For boys, video games and online porn.

For girls, social media makes them hyper social in a world of other girls. They emulate each other's styles, modes of communicating, etc. and have little interaction outside that world. And it starts when they're not even teenagers.

For boys, video games serve the same role, and porn both makes them less interested in the real thing and less understanding of how to communicate with actual real girls. 

[unbillievable]

This is a discussion between what we want to believe, and what is actually happening.

Dating sites prove just how shallow both men and women act when they don't have to justify their choices in public.

 

Instagram gives Women the attention they crave, and porn satisfies the basic urges for Men.

[Niagara Bill]

6 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think there are two or three very corrosive things out there that are at work.

For girls, social media.

For boys, video games and online porn.

For girls, social media makes them hyper social in a world of other girls. They emulate each other's styles, modes of communicating, etc. and have little interaction outside that world. And it starts when they're not even teenagers.

For boys, video games serve the same role, and porn both makes them less interested in the real thing and less understanding of how to communicate with actual real girls. 

You can add drugs to this list. 

Would you have a long term relationship with a woman who uses? Would you bet on a future with a woman who uses? Reverse that thought.

[Tommy Callahan]

Maze said something the other day that was good interesting.

 

Said there were more pretty women than good women (morals)

Said their are more good men than handsome men. 

 

Maybe he was onto something.