Young American men in decline

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Saw this discussion yesterday.  My knee jerk response was "cry me a river".  But the stats are astonishing.  4x the avg suicide rate, low relationship rates, high unemployment , low college graduation rates etc. Women meanwhile are gaining.  Higher incomes, higher graduation rates, more selective choices of mates (by and large consideration of only horizontal or upward socioeconomic romantic relationships with men).  Who's to blame if anyone?  What's the solution?  Is it a real issue?

 

[Tommy Callahan]

 

 

Dudes cannot be victims.  They need to man up.  Amirite.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1 by Tommy Callahan

[Joe Ferguson forever]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Welp. 

 

Maybe telling them all to man up. 

Their issues are mute. 

And they are the problem in society.

 

It's kind of funny cause modern feminism and dei requires victimhood mentality.  

 

Dudes cannot be victims.  They need to man up 

 

 

That was my first thought.  On further review, I think it's more complicated.  Roles are changing.  Some are adjusting, some are not.  The frustration of those that are not is unhealthy for them and the country.

Edited September 1 by Joe Ferguson forever

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

That was my first thought.  On further review, I think it's more complicated.  Roles are changing.  Some are adjusting, some are not.  The frustration of those that are not is unhealthy for them and the country.

I don't disagree that it's unhealthy.  And I certainly agree that it's an issue.  

 

I have to say, though, I'm tired of their projection and whining.  Maybe they should put down the sausage, lay off the booze, practice a little fiscal and self discipline, and see where it takes them.  They're just as bad as all of these whiners here.  "Libtard" this, government's fault that, left did this, and that's why I'm a loser, they say.  It's a all a crutch.  They're losers because they took the easy way out time and time again, watched other people get ahead of them, and now look for someone else to blame.  (Mexicans, liberals, China, immigrants, women, whatever.)  Guys like me outhustled and outworked and out-"disciplined" these MAGA losers, and I feel not one ounce of sympathy or concern for these unaccountable losers.  

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Saw this discussion yesterday.  My knee jerk response was "cry me a river".  But the stats are astonishing.  4x the avg suicide rate, low relationship rates, high unemployment , low college graduation rates etc. Women meanwhile are gaining.  Higher incomes, higher graduation rates, more selective choices of mates (by and large consideration of only horizontal or upward socioeconomic romantic relationships with men).  Who's to blame if anyone?  What's the solution?  Is it a real issue?

 

 

When you hear data like that presented to you and it’s about Women what would your response be?

 

 

Young men grow up from Kindergarten thru senior year of high with nothing but woman around them - especially in elementary school.  
 

And we all know what type of women those are.  Who don’t know the first thing about boys. 
 

 

It’s not hard.  Surround them with conservative women or more importantly conservative men and any problem re finding meaning or purpose is solved instantly.   
 

Stop promoting Hollywood woke trash that relegates father figures to punch lines and men take back seats to a “super awesome” girl boss absolutely no one relates to.  
 

And if your metrics of women “doing well” are jobs, pay, etc, that’s great but that’s not the full story.  
 

Are they having kids and are fulfilled between being wife, mom, and work?

 

And we already know the single 30-40 year old woman is a mess.  The currently looking for work 20 year old single woman that can’t find a man bc she has an Ukraine bumper sticker will soon be joining them.

 

 

Also, what’s a woman?  

[Doc]

It's definitely a real issue.  A whopping 63% of men aren't looking for a relationship.  Birth rates are going to plummet.

[phypon]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

It's definitely a real issue.  A whopping 63% of men aren't looking for a relationship.  Birth rates are going to plummet.

 

Yup, definitely a real issue.  It's a deep rabbit hole as well.  One thing that is pretty interesting and may correlate with those stats is the "Mouse Utopia" experiment.  For anyone that hasn't heard of it, check it out.  It's pretty interesting. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, phypon said:

Yup, definitely a real issue.  It's a deep rabbit hole as well.  One thing that is pretty interesting and may correlate with those stats is the "Mouse Utopia" experiment.  For anyone that hasn't heard of it, check it out.  It's pretty interesting. 

 

The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one. 

[phypon]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one. 

Totally agree.  Add to that, with the dating apps, women can basically pick from a menu and hook up with men that will only spend a night or two with them.  As in 6's hooking up with 9's and then the 6's will dismiss anything less than a 9.  There is also the new'ish phenomenon of the 80% to 20% rule (which is more like 90 10 now) where 80% of the women will only select the top 20% of the men.  Of course, most of those men are not looking for long term, they are just looking for an easy score because they know they can (not good dudes in my opinion) and it wreaks havoc in terms of dating.

 

Another aspect is that men are afraid to approach or court women because they are afraid that if there is "buyer's remorse" they will be falsely accused of a crime (see Matt Araiza or that Duke team).  It's to the point that just holding the door open for someone (which I always do regardless of the gender) can get you into trouble.  The juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

 

Of course, those are the symptoms of a larger problem.  I believe that problem goes back pretty far with the breakup of the nuclear family, single parent homes and the push to get women into the workforce.  I have no issues with women being in the workforce, so hope that doesn't come off the wrong way.  However, the push for it was not to "liberate" women, it was to gain tax dollars and in part to facilitate family breakdown.  Again, a very big rabbit hole. 

 

Just want to add, that for anyone on the Left that thinks what I'm saying is a Right type of thing, there is a fantastic lecture form years ago from Elizabeth Warren (who I absolutely do not support as a politician), but she made some great points and supported them with hard data.

 

The way it appears to me, with everything that is going on today, it seems like there has been a concerted effort going on to divide us.  As to the why and what is the end game, I'm not sure.  Could be power, could be fear of the people, mass govt., money, all of the above?  All I know is that the things going on today in the world and in this country are absolute insanity.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one. 

I think this is completely wrong.  As you said, 63% of men 18-29 ar single.  Most of those say they aren't looking for a relationship.  30% of women in that age group are single.  They've already decided "they need one" or at least want one.  So who are these women marrying.  The math would suggest older men.  Which would further suggest that financial and emotional stability are factors in their choices.  And I don't think it's all MAGAs.  The numbers don't support that either.  I think vocational training especially in the trades is part of the answer.  People need purpose.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/#:~:text=Adults under 30 are the,older say they are single.

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

When you hear data like that presented to you and it’s about Women what would your response be?

 

 

Young men grow up from Kindergarten thru senior year of high with nothing but woman around them - especially in elementary school.  
 

And we all know what type of women those are.  Who don’t know the first thing about boys. 
 

 

It’s not hard.  Surround them with conservative women or more importantly conservative men and any problem re finding meaning or purpose is solved instantly.   
 

Stop promoting Hollywood woke trash that relegates father figures to punch lines and men take back seats to a “super awesome” girl boss absolutely no one relates to.  
 

And if your metrics of women “doing well” are jobs, pay, etc, that’s great but that’s not the full story.  
 

Are they having kids and are fulfilled between being wife, mom, and work?

 

And we already know the single 30-40 year old woman is a mess.  The currently looking for work 20 year old single woman that can’t find a man bc she has an Ukraine bumper sticker will soon be joining them.

 

 

Also, what’s a woman?  

Or maybe it's just evolution.  Again the stats don't support women's dislike of wife, career and mom simultaneously.  It's the men who largely don't seem all that interested in any of those things.

[unbillievable]

An interesting stat is that twice as many men report being single vs women.

Have to assume the women are lying. Otherwise, millions of men are having threesomes.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I think this is completely wrong.  As you said, 63% of men 18-29 ar single.  Most of those say they aren't looking for a relationship.  30% of women in that age group are single.  They've already decided "they need one" or at least want one.  So who are these women marrying.  The math would suggest older men.  Which would further suggest that financial and emotional stability are factors in their choices.  And I don't think it's all MAGAs.  The numbers don't support that either.  I think vocational training especially in the trades is part of the answer.  People need purpose.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/#:~:text=Adults under 30 are the,older say they are single.

 

It's not completely wrong.  According to this (seems to be an article you used):  https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/

 

Quote

Scholars say the new era of gender parity has reshaped relationship dynamics, empowering young women and, in many cases, removing young men from the equation. 

 

Quote

Young men “are watching a lot of social media, they’re watching a lot of porn, and I think they’re getting a lot of their needs met without having to go out. And I think that’s starting to be a habit.” 

 

It also mentions what you did:

 

Quote

 

Young women are also dating and marrying slightly older men, carrying on a tradition that stretches back more than a century. The average age at first marriage is around 30 for men, 28 for women, according to census figures. 

 

 

As for who (else) are they dating/marrying:

 

Quote

Some of them are dating each other. One-fifth of Generation Z identifies as *****, and research suggests bisexual women make up a large share of the young-adult ***** community.  

 

[phypon]

1 minute ago, unbillievable said:

An interesting stat is that twice as many men report being single vs women.

Have to assume the women are lying. Otherwise, millions of men are having threesomes.

Exactly!  I've seen studies and polls (can't think of a specific one off the top of my head, been a while) and the conclusions were that most of the time women lie in these surveys, polls, and studies.  On top of that, I have my own personal experiences that confirm this as well as a few of my friends that have experienced this in real life.  There is a pattern and it's undeniable.   

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

Scholars say the new era of gender parity has reshaped relationship dynamics, empowering young women and, in many cases, removing young men from the equation. 

what you're missing here is they don't want or need young  men as much as they once did.  That's different than not wanting or needing men in general 

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's not completely wrong.  According to this (seems to be an article you used):  https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/

 i consider the %20 of Gen Z that identify as non-binary the same as the 20% of older women that used to identify as Emo, Goth, and Punk when they were younger.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

what you're missing here is they don't want or need young  men as much as they once did.  That's different than not wanting or needing men in general 

 

No, I said that in my original response.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

11 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

An interesting stat is that twice as many men report being single vs women.

Have to assume the women are lying. Otherwise, millions of men are having threesomes.

Or millions of men are going without sex.  Almost 30% of males 18-30 are virgins

https://www.knowledgeformen.com/sexless-and-single-men/

[Tommy Callahan]

Btw.  The male suicide issue isn't new. It's trended that way for decades.  

 

Men cannot be victims.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

No, I said that in my original response.

you've been listening to trump too much:  

"The main driver is the internet, social media and porn, with a huge assist from men being told they're toxic and women believing they don't need one"

[unbillievable]

IF younger women are dating older men, Who are the older women dating?

 

While older women dating younger men happens, it's still rare enough to be made into a movie.

Edited September 1 by unbillievable