transplantbillsfan Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) I'm seeing weird skepticism about McDermott's ability to develop Safeties in the Lewis Cine conversation. Let's deep dive into how successful McDermott has actually been coaching Safeties in the NFL and getting the most out of them... We all know about Poyer and Hyde. Anyone not giving McDermott credit for those 2 can just stop reading because you're clearly just being silly. Quinten Mikell (Philadelphia) and Kurt Coleman (Carolina) became Pro Bowl Safeties under McDermott at a time when the Pro Bowl meant a little something. Coleman was actually productive and successful with McDermott in Philadelphia, not as good when the parted ways, and then a 7 interception pro bowler when they were reunited in Carolina. Mike Mitchell (Carolina) went to Carolina in 2013 from Oakland on a 1 year contract worth 1 million dollars and had his best year in the NFL by far under McDermott as DC, helping him to get a 5 year, $25 million deal with the Steelers, where he never matched that success or even came close to it. Nate Allen was drafted in the 2nd round by the Eagles in 2010, started as a rookie, and had 3 interceptions, 8 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble and 2 sacks in his rookie year. Haruki Nakamura went from backup nobody with the Ravens to legitimate contributing starter under McDermott with Carolina for one season... the only season of his brief career he intercepted any passes in the NFL... and he got 2. (EDIT: Brought up Roman Harper, but got rid of him from the post after some good observations) I understand the worry right now about our Safeties,but I feel like if there's any position we should give McDermott the benefit of the doubt on, it's that one. Edited September 2 by transplantbillsfan 15 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Who is saying that? You can say what you want about McDermott, but his ability to develop safeties and corners is without match in the NFL. He has proven it everywhere he has been, with low draft picks, high draft picks, UDFA's, and free agents. It's the one thing about McDermott that should never be questioned. Does that mean every guy he coaches will be a pro bowler? No, but he gets the most out of them. 4 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 1 Author Share Posted September 1 3 hours ago, MJS said: Who is saying that? You can say what you want about McDermott, but his ability to develop safeties and corners is without match in the NFL. He has proven it everywhere he has been, with low draft picks, high draft picks, UDFA's, and free agents. It's the one thing about McDermott that should never be questioned. Does that mean every guy he coaches will be a pro bowler? No, but he gets the most out of them. Go take a peak in the Lewis Cine thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dma0034 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 McDermott has shown he can mold DBs and LBs. Only true weakness has been DE. IMO if you have a defensive coach you shouldn't be paying your defense a ton unless they are truly elite. You spend more on Offense and let your HC and DC craft game plans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 McDermott and his ability to teach and develop defensive secondaries has never been an issue to my recollection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 32 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Go take a peak in the Lewis Cine thread I'll just take your word for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 I’m not sure about that Roman Harper comment being particularly true but… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 4 minutes ago, dma0034 said: McDermott has shown he can mold DBs and LBs. Only true weakness has been DE. IMO if you have a defensive coach you shouldn't be paying your defense a ton unless they are truly elite. You spend more on Offense and let your HC and DC craft game plans. I think DE is gonna start looking a lot better after this season. I think Groot is looking for a breakout while I also think AJE is going to take a moderate step up and make the Bills DE development look better. I also think Solomon is going to show some flashes too which should show promise for the future of their ability to scout and develop DE's. The Bills haven't had too much in the way of DE draft picks from 2017-2019. The only DE they drafted in the first three McBeane seasons was a 7th round pick in Darryl Johnson in 2019. So there hasn't been much of a chance to develop high or even mid-round picks until 2020 and it takes about 3-4 years to see what you have or what the potential of prospects are. So we are at that tipping point with the DE's drafted in 2020-21. From 2020-2023 there have been only 3 DE's taken by the Bills. AJE, Groot, and Boogie. Boogie is a complete bust so a big strike against them there but the other two picks Groot and AJE have developed into productive players although it is questionable if they have reached their draft status. Groot the past two seasons has played like a solid starting caliber DE after showing some flashes his rookie year. As a late 1st round pick could you consider that below expectations? Certainly possible but it's not the worst outcome to get a solid starter in the late 1st even if you want a Pro-Bowl caliber guy. AJE got off to a slow start due to various factors (Covid season and transforming his body by losing 20 pounds) but the past two seasons he's established himself as a high end rotational DE. Once again late 2nd round pick you might want more of him but he's got room at his age to go up another level in play. TLDR: Bills didn't draft any DE's in the mid-rounds or higher form 2017-2019 so we are now seeing what the players drafted after 2020 will be which may make the Bills DE development look a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I'm seeing weird skepticism about McDermott's ability to develop Safeties in the Lewis Cine conversation. Let's deep dive into how successful McDermott has actually been coaching Safeties in the NFL and getting the most out of them... We all know about Poyer and Hyde. Anyone not giving McDermott credit for those 2 can just stop reading because you're clearly just being silly. Quinten Mikell (Philadelphia) and Kurt Coleman (Carolina) became Pro Bowl Safeties under McDermott at a time when the Pro Bowl meant a little something. Coleman was actually productive and successful with McDermott in Philadelphia, not as good when the parted ways, and then a 7 interception pro bowler when they were reunited in Carolina. Mike Mitchell (Carolina) went to Carolina in 2013 from Oakland on a 1 year contract worth 1 million dollars and had his best year in the NFL by far under McDermott as DC, helping him to get a 5 year, $25 million deal with the Steelers, where he never matched that success or even came close to it. Nate Allen was drafted in the 2nd round by the Eagles in 2010, started as a rookie, and had 3 interceptions, 8 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble and 2 sacks in his rookie year. Haruki Nakamura went from backup nobody with the Ravens to legitimate contributing starter under McDermott with Carolina for one season... the only season of his brief career he intercepted any passes in the NFL... and he got 2. Roman Harper had his best year in the NFL under McDermott in Carolina. I understand the worry right now about our Safeties,but I feel like if there's any position we should give McDermott the benefit of the doubt on, it's that one. It was think about this topic recently. Safety was the biggest reason for pessimism from Joe Buscaglia. But Joe Marino echoed much of the same sentiment as you did regarding McDermott and safeties. I think the best example is Damar Hamlin in 2022. As a 6th round draft pick he stepped in for Micah Hyde and played decent given limited experience. Having Poyer probably helped as did being in the system for a second season. But I think recent example should give optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 Why are we talking about McDermott though ? Babich will be coaching the defense. It will be a tragedy if McDermott as a HC is spending his time bringing up a safety stashed in the PS. Go Bills !!! 1 hour ago, JohnNord said: I think the best example is Damar Hamlin in 2022. As a 6th round draft pick he stepped in for Micah Hyde and played decent given limited experience. Hamlin was a liability every time he was on the field. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 13 minutes ago, ganesh said: Hamlin was a liability every time he was on the field. And still is. God help us if he's starting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I'm seeing weird skepticism about McDermott's ability to develop Safeties in the Lewis Cine conversation. Let's deep dive into how successful McDermott has actually been coaching Safeties in the NFL and getting the most out of them... We all know about Poyer and Hyde. Anyone not giving McDermott credit for those 2 can just stop reading because you're clearly just being silly. Quinten Mikell (Philadelphia) and Kurt Coleman (Carolina) became Pro Bowl Safeties under McDermott at a time when the Pro Bowl meant a little something. Coleman was actually productive and successful with McDermott in Philadelphia, not as good when the parted ways, and then a 7 interception pro bowler when they were reunited in Carolina. Mike Mitchell (Carolina) went to Carolina in 2013 from Oakland on a 1 year contract worth 1 million dollars and had his best year in the NFL by far under McDermott as DC, helping him to get a 5 year, $25 million deal with the Steelers, where he never matched that success or even came close to it. Nate Allen was drafted in the 2nd round by the Eagles in 2010, started as a rookie, and had 3 interceptions, 8 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble and 2 sacks in his rookie year. Haruki Nakamura went from backup nobody with the Ravens to legitimate contributing starter under McDermott with Carolina for one season... the only season of his brief career he intercepted any passes in the NFL... and he got 2. Roman Harper had his best year in the NFL under McDermott in Carolina. I understand the worry right now about our Safeties,but I feel like if there's any position we should give McDermott the benefit of the doubt on, it's that one. I've never once doubted McD's ability to develop corners & safeties. I'd love to see him turn Cine & Bishop into our previous pro bowl duo. But these guys aren't getting to Mahomes or disrupting him in the playoffs. Having a very good DB group is all good until Pat goes off script because we haven't had an elite or even top 10 pass rusher in the last decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 McD’s problem isn’t player development, but clock/game management in the 4th quarter of big games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 Is the scepticism about McDermott's ability to develop safeties? I read it as being scepticisim about the ability of the safeties we have. If they have it, McDermott will find it. I am not sure they have it. Saying I don't think McDermott is going to be able to much with Rapp and Hamlin isn't a reflection on McDermott. It's a reflection on Rapp (who was mostly bad when he played last year) and Hamlin (who was mostly bad when he played the year before). I do, however, like the Cine pickup and hope they can get him up to speed and he makes his way eventually to the 53. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 (edited) 10 hours ago, NoSaint said: I’m not sure about that Roman Harper comment being particularly true but… Lol, Roman Harper didn’t have his best year in Carolina 😂😂. He went to the Pro Bowl and won the Super Bowl in the same year. Roman Harper’s best years were in New Orleans. This is like saying Jimmy Graham will be remembered for his time in Green Bay. I understand that he’s trying to make a point. Adding in things that aren’t true though to “strengthen that point” doesn’t work. Also, who is questioning if McDermott can develop DBs? That’s not a thing. Everyone knows that’s his strength. Edited September 1 by Kirby Jackson 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 13 hours ago, dma0034 said: McDermott has shown he can mold DBs and LBs. Only true weakness has been DE. IMO if you have a defensive coach you shouldn't be paying your defense a ton unless they are truly elite. You spend more on Offense and let your HC and DC craft game plans. Same kind of principle applies to elite QBs - you pay him to carry games so spend resources on defense. I disagree with the principle in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 5 hours ago, Mc1320 said: McD’s problem isn’t player development, but clock/game management in the 4th quarter of big games. and coming out and saying that he screwed up. Go Bills !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 18 hours ago, MJS said: Who is saying that? You can say what you want about McDermott, but his ability to develop safeties and corners is without match in the NFL. He has proven it everywhere he has been, with low draft picks, high draft picks, UDFA's, and free agents. It's the one thing about McDermott that should never be questioned. Does that mean every guy he coaches will be a pro bowler? No, but he gets the most out of them. Indeed. Just last years completely decimated yet performing defense should make some people shut up a bit. NAd it really seems the secondary has always been strong since he's here. The valid criticism is that he is very good but not elite. His playoff defenses have been very average, Of course, you face much better teams in the playoffs! But still, that's valid. But the haters are way overboard. I hope he can turn it around like Reid did. Recall how the now multiple SB winning coach was seen as a choker and not good enough just a few years ago.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 1 Author Share Posted September 1 15 hours ago, NoSaint said: I’m not sure about that Roman Harper comment being particularly true but… Didn't say McDermott made him... but in his age 32 season Harper had the most interceptions of his career in his 1st year in Carolina. 2nd most passes defensed... one shy of his previous best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 1 Author Share Posted September 1 5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, Roman Harper didn’t have his best year in Carolina 😂😂. He went to the Pro Bowl and won the Super Bowl in the same year. Roman Harper’s best years were in New Orleans. This is like saying Jimmy Graham will be remembered for his time in Green Bay. I understand that he’s trying to make a point. Adding in things that aren’t true though to “strengthen that point” doesn’t work. Also, who is questioning if McDermott can develop DBs? That’s not a thing. Everyone knows that’s his strength. He had 4 interceptions, a forced fumble, 10 passes defensed and a TD. You could make the argument another year was better for him, but which year? I would say maybe his 2nd year... but he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year. I guess I don't look at a safety getting over 100 tackles as a positive thing, though... so if tackles are the measurement, no it was not one of his better years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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